Whew, what's going on in Macomb county?

[Fury13]

You aren't going to have a political system that doesn't have some form of corruption. No one has cornered the market on that. Hell, drunk driving is a felony, but, you've never seen L. Brooks brought up on charges, unless the should have been arresting officer charged him for the ride home. But, everything being relative, the level of corruption one might see in Macomb County after living in Detroit is miniscule.

If you have any trouble in Macomb County, get yourself a lawyer that's tied into the good-ol-boy network [[codespeak: Italian), pay off the judge, and you should be fine. Of course, if the other side has already bribed the judge or has an in with the prosecutor [[usually the case), you're screwed.

[kraig]

If you have any trouble in Macomb County, get yourself a lawyer that's tied into the good-ol-boy network [[codespeak: Italian), pay off the judge, and you should be fine. Of course, if the other side has already bribed the judge or has an in with the prosecutor [[usually the case), you're screwed.

LOL. That's funny. I'm not worried, I don't do anything that's going to be worse than a traffic ticket.

[Mackinaw]

best county in the state...nightlife...youth.... LOL! I really must be missing out on something.

Outside of pockets of Mt. Clemens-- distant from Detroit and not easily called "urban" by most peoples' estimates-- is there anyplace objectively urban in Macomb? What is the draw that leads to to declare that it's a shining beacon for the future of our state?

[kraig]

best county in the state...nightlife...youth.... LOL! I really must be missing out on something.

Outside of pockets of Mt. Clemens-- distant from Detroit and not easily called "urban" by most peoples' estimates-- is there anyplace objectively urban in Macomb? What is the draw that leads to to declare that it's a shining beacon for the future of our state?

Who said anything about it being urban? The complaint in Oakland County for years is that there's nothing to do. In fact, the livest spots are Ferndale, Royal Oak and Birmingham. After those, where can you really hang out? I'm not asking to be critical, I'm sure there are those more familiar with Oakland County that can tell me. Don't get me wrong, I love Oakland and Wayne County too.

[Patrick]

Bitch all you want about Macomb County but at least the cops will show up when you call...so will the ambulance within minutes....not by next friday. Hell, why do all the Warren school districts have kids coming in from Detroit? Would you send you kid to a shitty scool in the DPS system? Forget all your buildings and architecture and history...that's all fine and dandy but when it comes down to it, you need a place where you can raise a family. Macomb County has affordable areas that arent filled with McMansions. Sure, it's not GP or Royal Oak but who fucking cares.

[wash_man]

"That means it's affordable. Any good Mexican restaurants? "

Taco Loco at 24 Mile and Van Dyke. Yum.

[Johnlodge]

I know my friends and I can't think of anything cooler than a night out in Sterling Heights.

[ghettopalmetto]

Bitch all you want about Macomb County but at least the cops will show up when you call...so will the ambulance within minutes....not by next friday. Hell, why do all the Warren school districts have kids coming in from Detroit? Would you send you kid to a shitty scool in the DPS system? Forget all your buildings and architecture and history...that's all fine and dandy but when it comes down to it, you need a place where you can raise a family. Macomb County has affordable areas that arent filled with McMansions. Sure, it's not GP or Royal Oak but who fucking cares.

Awesome. Now what about the 75% of us who don't have kids?

[East Detroit]

Best [[authentic) Mexican food in Macomb County is hands-down Guelaguetza on 10 Mile just East of Kelly.

http://www.guelaguetzamexican.com/

[firstandten]

I guess with the changing demographics the political pundits will not be able to tag Macomb county with being the county of Reagan democrats. I would think the county will move toward the center-left rather than center-right especially the border communities.

[East Detroit]

Awesome. Now what about the 75% of us who don't have kids?

You probably still want ambulance service that is unlike that experienced by Ken Cockrel Sr.

[Gistok]

Geeze is it that time of year again... Macomb County bashing time? This goes on ad nauseum by the same forumers time and time again....

So the courts and governments here are corrupt? Funny, I must have missed that one in the major dailies... or are the feds too busy elsewhere in SE Michigan?

Low taxes and few safety problems must mean something? 5 minute 911 response time... and actually having police show up at your door for even petty crimes may be a novelty to some... but that's part of life up here in Hickville USA.

Don't like the architecture? 90% of the time folks can't tell the difference when they cross 8 Mile Rd. And architecture must not have that much of an effect on folks cultural enrichment... just look at how many folks below 8 Mile who disrespect their own property... let alone their own neighborhood.

But it is funny that a lot of African-Americans have decided that Macomb County is a nice place to live... maybe they know something that some folks on this forum don't?

[Bearinabox]

Geeze is it that time of year again... Macomb County bashing time? This goes on ad nauseum by the same forumers time and time again....

90% of the thread is neutral-to-positive in tone, and you pick up on the 3-4 posts that aren't. Why so defensive?

Low taxes and few safety problems must mean something? 5 minute 911 response time... and actually having police show up at your door for even petty crimes may be a novelty to some... but that's part of life up here in Hickville USA.

They do mean something. They mean that Macomb County is composed of suburban areas that have benefited greatly from the past 5 decades of misguided federal housing and highway policy and the accompanying population shifts. That, and nothing more. All the cul-de-sacs don't help the police get to your door any faster.

Don't like the architecture? 90% of the time folks can't tell the difference when they cross 8 Mile Rd. And architecture must not have that much of an effect on folks cultural enrichment... just look at how many folks below 8 Mile who disrespect their own property... let alone their own neighborhood.

I'm not sure why you're trying to argue taste. People who don't like Macomb County shouldn't live there. Why are you trying to convince them?

Not only that, I find it very irritating when this debate is framed in terms of realistic suburbanites looking for the best possible place to live versus pretentious blowhards who read too much James Howard Kunstler preaching about why those places suck. If I spend too much time driving through Sterling Heights, my head starts to hurt. I simply can't live there, and no amount of statistics or objective evidence could convince me that it's a good place to live. Police response time is great, but when you just plain can't fucking stand your surroundings, that's a much more immediate problem than how long the cops take to get to your house when your neighbor has the stereo a notch too high. I had never heard of Kunstler or Jane Jacobs until I started reading this forum, but I've known since I was a very small child that I could never live in Macomb County [[or most of Oakland, or most of Wayne), just because of my visceral reaction to those places. There are parts of Macomb County I like, there are things there I like, there are places there with which I associate good memories, but I do not want to live there, and you can't convince me otherwise. It has nothing to do with pretentious rhetoric and quotes from books, it has to do with what I've lived and the opinions I've formed based on those experiences.

And the "both sides of 8 Mile look the same" argument is a red herring, and I think you know it. The north side of 8 Mile is no more representative of Macomb County than the south side is of Detroit, and that line of reasoning only has relevance to the small sliver of the metro area's population that lives within shouting distance of The Great Divide. I probably could live just as easily on either side of 8 Mile, and that would be more desirable to me than living in Chesterfield Township, and less desirable than living where I live now.

But it is funny that a lot of African-Americans have decided that Macomb County is a nice place to live... maybe they know something that some folks on this forum don't?

More likely they simply have different priorities than "some folks on this forum." There is room in the world for more than one lifestyle choice. I don't understand why you feel so threatened when people advocate for choices other than yours.

[Retroit]

...These population shifts are attributable primarily to school-related decision-making and "cry out for more regional solutions," said Metzger,...

Not sure what the "cry out for more regional solutions" has to do with people moving, but if African-Americans [I am not being racist, only addressing the points raised in the article] are moving to the suburbs for better schools, the question must be asked: What makes them think that the suburban schools will not become like the schools in Detroit? Just to refresh our memories: Detroit once had excellent schools, and it wasn't because they were in the suburbs.

So what caused the schools in Detroit to deteriorate, and what will prevent the schools in the suburbs from deteriorating?

[[Hint: It is not the location, it is the culture.)

[Blueidone]

There is so much more to Macomb County than Downtown Mt. Clemens or the Sterling Heights/Shelby shopping area. I have lived in Macomb County since 1970, in 5 different cities. I was born in Detroit, but mostly raised in Oakland County...4 different cities there. I have never lived in Sterling Heights or Shelby Twp..or anywhere in the area north of 16 Mile Road.

There are good parts and bad parts in Macomb County, just like any county in the metro area. I can find anything I need within about 5 miles of my house, but I like to experience other areas as well.

Yes, the black population has increased over the years [[along with Asians, Arabs, Mexicans and every other non-white group of people. I think it's great! Some of the folks in my area need to experience some diversity!

[softailrider]

If you don't mind living in a place where the political and court systems are corrupt to the core, Macomb County is fine, I guess.

And the politics in Wayne County aren't corrupt?

[noenaim]

A few years ago when my wife and I considered moving from our downtown Detroit apartment to a house we were surprised that this realtor recommended Macomb county communities like Roseville and Easpointe. We joked that maybe blacks were being steered to that area, but I now know quite a few blacks that live Macomb county mostly Eastpointe.
Well I think its great the Macomb county is becoming more diverse. I would love to see it become example of racially intergration in this area. I'd like to think that things have changed, the white families that have lived there for years will not leave because the neighborhood has changed. But I doubt it.
We know what will happen in 10 years Easpointe, Roseville maybe ever Warren will be mostly black and the whites will move up further north, I think Southfield is a classic example. I hope I'm wrong the Detroit area has changed hasn't it?

By the way we stayed downtown.

[Lorax]

Hey, I'm white and as a second home, bought a super atomic ranch in Southfield, which to all outward appearances looks great. Lots of trees, and well-built mid-century modern houses. Plenty of services, stores, etc. My neighborhood is mixed as they all are, and everyone is really great.

If I have one complaint having not lived full-time in Michigan for over 20 years, is that people there need to really start appreciating what they have, and work to preserve the inner-ring suburbs, and hopefully restore the city as well.

[Patrick]

Well, if you like old houses move to Romeo lol....or the area of Mt Clemens right off the Clinton River that looks like Sherwood Forest.

[Detroit Stylin]

Not sure what the "cry out for more regional solutions" has to do with people moving, but if African-Americans [I am not being racist, only addressing the points raised in the article] are moving to the suburbs for better schools, the question must be asked: What makes them think that the suburban schools will not become like the schools in Detroit? Just to refresh our memories: Detroit once had excellent schools, and it wasn't because they were in the suburbs.

So what caused the schools in Detroit to deteriorate, and what will prevent the schools in the suburbs from deteriorating?

[[Hint: It is not the location, it is the culture.)

Please oh please elaborate oh Wise One.....

[kraig]

Please oh please elaborate oh Wise One.....

Retroit is implying that black kids mess up schools wherever they go. So of course, he put in a disclaimer saying he's not racist. Kind of like the comedian that says "seriously folks" right before he tells another joke.

Don't worry about it. We all knew there were going to be a few people that were going to make it about race. Say a prayer for them, that's all.

[Retroit]

Once again, I have to defend the obvious. For those who have forgotten, I did not bring up race, it was brought up by the article in the initial post. For those who do not understand the difference between racism and having an intelligent discussion about racial matters, I would like to quote the second highest ranking black person in our federal government [[after the President), Attorney General Eric Holder:

"Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards. Though race related issues continue to occupy a significant portion of our political discussion, and though there remain many unresolved racial issues in this nation, we, average Americans, simply do not talk enough with each other about race. It is an issue we have never been at ease with and given our nation’s history this is in some ways understandable. And yet, if we are to make progress in this area we must feel comfortable enough with one another, and tolerant enough of each other, to have frank conversations about the racial matters that continue to divide us." [[source: http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/speeches/200...terstitialskip )

He may not have the panache of Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, but hopefully he won't be discredited for not being "black enough."

For those who refuse to believe that there could possibly be any difference between black culture and white culture [[as if it isn't obvious enough to any metro Detroiter), I will attempt to explain it to you. And to cover all bases, I will not limit my comments to just the school issue, but will show the reasons why blacks in Detroit have given up on "their city".

First a little local history for those who haven't learned it yet: Detroit was once a great, beautiful, safe, prosperous city. [[It also had excellent schools, but that was a secondary matter.) The few black Detroiters lived together in an area of the city known as Black Bottom, but this was not a significant instance of segregation, as virtually every ethnic group lived in their own enclave [[no, not the Buick Enclave). In fact, black Detroiters at the time had freedoms and respectability unknown by most other black Americans at the time. Some were even professionals living in white neighborhoods and experiencing no discrimination [[as was the black family that lived next to my mother in the 1930's to 1960's). In time, it was likely they would have fully integrated throughout metro Detroit much like every other ethnic group.

But Hitler and Tojo had other plans for us. During WWII, the demand for workers in the armament factories of Detroit necessitated the immigration of southern blacks. These black were the product of the segregated south. They were poor, uneducated and accustomed to a much lower living standard than that which Detroiters, black and white, were accustomed to. In fact, many blacks resented the newcomers.

But such is history: we can't change it, but we can learn from it.

So blacks moved to Detroit and became inheritors of a great, beautiful, safe, prosperous city, and the result was what you see. Whites, of course, moved out and created a "new" Detroit out in suburbia [[good schools included).

Lo and behold, once blacks had sole [[or nearly so) possession of the city, its government, and its schools, they realized that the city they inherited turned into what it is, and they decided to move out [[ostensibly for better schools). This brings us to the topic of this thread.

Now, one must ask, how is it possible that a great, beautiful, safe, prosperous, white city can turn into a has-been, ugly, unsafe, poor, black city? Well, certainly it is not because white people are inherently superior genetically to black people. Our Constitution and our molecular biologists have proven that, not to mention the countless blacks who have made great accomplishments and the countless whites who have proven to be the worst men known to man.

However, one only has to look at the most prevalent example of racial differences, namely the comparison between white and black neighborhoods, to conclude that there must be some difference between the two. Surprisingly to a racist, it is not the skin color that makes them different, it is their culture, or shall I say culture.

Stop. Take a breath. I am not saying that the culture of a group of people is reflective of every single individual within that culture. So if you are an all-around good, moral, law-abiding, family-loving black person [[one of my black acquaintances, perhaps?), there is no reason to take offense. I'm not referring to you.

So, what do I mean by culture, oh Wise Self? How is white culture different than black culture? It is very simple, really. Ask the black family that moves from a black neighborhood to a white neighborhood. Ask the black parent that takes their child out of a black public school and enrolls them in a white, suburban, charter school [[Moronica Conyours, perhaps?). Ask a black consumer who passes black Detroit stores to shop in white suburban stores. Ask all the little black children who their father is. Ask the black children who walk to school in fear of people with their own skin color. Ask the business owner who has closed up shop in Detroit because of all the shoplifting or burglaries. It is all these things, and many more, that can answer your question on what I mean by culture.

Is that to say that you, black DetroitYES forumer, have contributed to the dysfunction of black culture, and that I [[a white person) live in a perfect culture? Absolutely not. Culture is the cumulative result of many people. It is a matter of the good majority outweighing the bad, or vice-versa. No individual need take offense, nor claim divine right. We are the product of our culture; our culture [[or sub-culture) is the product of us...all of us.

In other words, blacks are not moving to the suburbs because of the schools, nor the "cry out for more regional solutions" [[was that a joke, Ms. Tanner?). They are moving there because they have rejected their own black culture and prefer white culture. The reason that many whites are fearful of black immigration is the possibility that once blacks replace the whites, you would no longer have a white culture, and all the attributes that drew blacks in the first place are replaced with all the attributed that make Detroit suck.

But I disown that fear. I believe that many blacks are rejecting the failures of black culture, and are realizing that it is not enough to inherit the advantages of white culture - they must also preserve those advantages. It is not a matter of stopping to be black and becoming white. It is a matter of stopping to live in ways that are detrimental to your well-being and starting to live in ways that have proven over the course of history to promote a pleasant society in which to live.

Need I go on [[...and on...), Detroit Stylin?

And yes, as kraig said, say a prayer for me...and for all of us!

[Fury13]

So the courts and governments here are corrupt? Funny, I must have missed that one in the major dailies... or are the feds too busy elsewhere in SE Michigan?

Gistok, say what you want, but Macomb County is the home of the Mafia in metro Detroit. All the connected guys live in Clinton, Washington, and Shelby townships. They have huge influence behind the scenes and have ties [[the friends/family plan) to judges and the court system there.

[jt1]

It appears that Redetroit is confusing black adn white culture when it is less a culture of color and more a culture of socioeconomics.

Speaking of the wonderous old times of Detroit you also choose to ignore the loss of population, loss of tax base, State and Federal laws that have historically hurt inner cities and the horrible racial segegration in SE Michigan.

To claim it is white culture vs. black culture is about as racist as it can get but nothing less than I expect from people in SE Michigan.

Just an appalling justification that is devoid of facts, history and reality.

[Kevgoblu]

^^^^^

What JT1 said.