City council approves bond sale for Woodward light rail

**Chris Rohn** · April-11-11, 03:48 PM

Detroit council approves bond sale for Woodward light rail
Darren A. Nichols / The Detroit News

Detroit— The City Council today passed about $100 million in funding for the light rail project along Woodward Avenue.

The council voted 8-0 to approve $125 million in bonds and a $25 million federal Transit Investment Generating Economic Recovery grant. Officials said passing the money today is a key first step in an effort to finally get a light rail system in Detroit. About $74 million in the bonds will go to the rail project and another $50 million will go to buses and other improvements.

"Detroit is a world-class city, and we should not be without rapid transit," Council President Charles Pugh said. "The fact we've gotten to this point where we have a real commitment from the federal government [[and) leadership in this city. Now we need the next step.

"This is something that we need [[and) we want. It will improve development along that Woodward corridor. This is exciting. It's a big day for the city."

The funding passed today will pay for the M-1 project from the Michigan State Fairgrounds to the New Center area. Officials said $100 million has already been pledged from local investors to complete the local match for funds. The entire project will cost $528 million, officials said.

The funding passed today will pay for the first leg of the M-1 project, a 3.4 mile, 12-station line from Hart Plaza to the New Center area. Ground breaking is expected to start in 2012 and it should be running by 2015, officials said.

"It means we're off and running and Detroit is going to be with the first leg with the M-1 line being the initial starting point," Council President Pro Tem Gary Brown said. "It gives us the starting point and the ability to raise dollars and get [[funding) from Washington before others capture those dollars."

dnichols@detnews.com

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From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110411/...#ixzz1JFXrwU7q

Vox · April-11-11, 04:24 PM

That's nice that there is funding for bus transportation in that package. It helps to be able to get to the light rail. Also, not everyone is able to live in and around the line, although some may say that would be preferable. Only problem in this proposal is, how the bonds would be paid back.

**Detroitnerd** · April-11-11, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Vox

Also, not everyone is able to live in and around the line, although some may say that would be preferable.

Explain why it would be preferable to not live around the line.

Vox · April-11-11, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Explain why it would be preferable to not live around the line.

I didn't say it wasn't preferable, I only said it may not be possible to have everyone live in and around the line. There's only so much land in the area, and not everyone wants to rent and live in an apartment.

**Detroitnerd** · April-11-11, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Vox

I didn't say it wasn't preferable, I only said it may not be possible to have everyone live in and around the line. There's only so much land in the area, and not everyone wants to rent and live in an apartment.

You said some may say it would be preferable to not live in and around the line. I am asking you why some may say that. Surely you have an answer. What is it?

Bear in mind, there are private homes within a 15-minute walk of Woodward.

Vox · April-11-11, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

You said some may say it would be preferable to not live in and around the line. I am asking you why some may say that. Surely you have an answer. What is it?

Bear in mind, there are private homes within a 15-minute walk of Woodward.

I said:

Also, not everyone is able to live in and around the line, although some may say that would be preferable.

I also am fairly aware that not everyone is able to walk that far, either. I'm sure that you are going to be young forever? Some people are disabled, others have breathing and heart problems. I'm sure that those could just go without?

**j to the jeremy** · April-11-11, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

You said some may say it would be preferable to not live in and around the line. I am asking you why some may say that. Surely you have an answer. What is it?

Bear in mind, there are private homes within a 15-minute walk of Woodward.

Because many people commute to jobs on the East side, West side, etc. All of the bus lines need improvement, especially in the neighborhoods. Why do you always pick fights on here?

Good news on the bond sale passing. It's good to see that city council actually understands how much we need this.

**Hermod** · April-12-11, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Vox

I didn't say it wasn't preferable, I only said it may not be possible to have everyone live in and around the line. There's only so much land in the area, and not everyone wants to rent and live in an apartment.

Dummy, when the "collective" arrives, you will be assigned a worker's flat along the designated transit lines. Your house and cars will be confiscated, the house torn down, and the cars junked. All those separate hjouses will be turned into parkland. You will live in your assigned flat, ride the magic choo choo to work, and love living in paradise.

Only the nomenklatura like Detroit Nerd will be assigned luxury penthouses along the river.

Vox · April-11-11, 05:08 PM

Not only that, but the noise generated by a light rail line is fairly large in comparison to other modes of transportation.. I'd consider that before moving right next door to a track either.

**Detroitnerd** · April-11-11, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Vox

Not only that, but the noise generated by a light rail line is fairly large in comparison to other modes of transportation.. I'd consider that before moving right next door to a track either.

This is as close as you've come to an answer yet. Thank you. Unfortunately, I don't know what kind of light rail lines you've been exposed to in the past, but they have a reputation for being quiet. They're electrically powered. There is no roaring engine, just a quiet electric motor. You might hear a "whoosh" or soft rumble, but that's about it.

So, since that's out, are there any other reasons why some may not want to live near a light rail line?

Vox · April-11-11, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

This is as close as you've come to an answer yet. Thank you. Unfortunately, I don't know what kind of light rail lines you've been exposed to in the past, but they have a reputation for being quiet. They're electrically powered. There is no roaring engine, just a quiet electric motor. You might hear a "whoosh" or soft rumble, but that's about it.

So, since that's out, are there any other reasons why some may not want to live near a light rail line?

I for one don't have any objection to living close to one. You are reading what you want to see, as usual. Actually, I live not far from bus transportation and close enough to walk to Woodward in a pinch. What I am saying is that there should be competent feeder lines in to this line, whether you like it or not.

**Detroitnerd** · April-11-11, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Vox

I for one don't have any objection to living close to one. You are reading what you want to see, as usual. Actually, I live not far from bus transportation and close enough to walk to Woodward in a pinch. What I am saying is that there should be competent feeder lines in to this line, whether you like it or not.

No, what you said is that some may not want to live near a light rail line.

Originally Posted by Vox

... not everyone is able to live in and around the line, although some may say that would be preferable.

What I'd like to know is, these people who are not able to live in and around the line, some of which would say it's preferable. Please let me know why these people would prefer not to. No dodging. No backpedaling. No changing subjects. Let me have it, please.

Vox · April-11-11, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

No, what you said is that some may not want to live near a light rail line.

What I'd like to know is, these people who are not able to live in and around the line, some of which would say it's preferable. Please let me know why these people would prefer not to. No dodging. No backpedaling. No changing subjects. Let me have it, please.

Great. My point would be, I don't want to live by YOU. I'd have to kill myself. And knowing that you are there would be good enough advertisment against even considering such a move to Detroit. .

**Fnemecek** · April-11-11, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

This is as close as you've come to an answer yet. Thank you. Unfortunately, I don't know what kind of light rail lines you've been exposed to in the past, but they have a reputation for being quiet. They're electrically powered. There is no roaring engine, just a quiet electric motor. You might hear a "whoosh" or soft rumble, but that's about it.

So, since that's out, are there any other reasons why some may not want to live near a light rail line?

I believe Vox and others don't want to live near light rail because there isn't a Solar Roadway in its vicinity.

**Hermod** · April-12-11, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Unfortunately, I don't know what kind of light rail lines you've been exposed to in the past, but they have a reputation for being quiet. They're electrically powered. There is no roaring engine, just a quiet electric motor. You might hear a "whoosh" or soft rumble, but that's about it.

You must never have been around a Detroit street car line. Those things weren't that quiet.

**Detroitnerd** · April-12-11, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

You must never have been around a Detroit street car line. Those things weren't that quiet.

Yeah, Hermod, and you must have never been on a Peter Witt car in winter, tossing coal into the stove to stay warm!

Obviously, there have been improvements in traction since, say, 1955. I would point to many modern light rail projects that are quieter and smoother than 50-year-old technology. I wonder, wonder, wonder why you would want to set the bar there ... oh, well ...

**bailey** · April-12-11, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Yeah, Hermod, and you must have never been on a Peter Witt car in winter, tossing coal into the stove to stay warm!

Obviously, there have been improvements in traction since, say, 1955. I would point to many modern light rail projects that are quieter and smoother than 50-year-old technology. I wonder, wonder, wonder why you would want to set the bar there ... oh, well ...

Yeah like the whisper quiet People Mover.

**Rocko** · April-11-11, 06:17 PM

This is great. Another critical and real step toward making real non-bus mass transit a reality in the city of Detroit. My heart breaks every time I look at photos of PCC streetcars zipping down Woodward Avenue pre-1956, but hopefully this project, nearly 60 years later, will help continue to revitalization of Woodward and be the first step in a series of new light rail lines around the city.

And, I too am glad to see the investment in buses in Detroit as well. Anyone know what bus-related this funding is going toward? More new coaches? New bus stops? Be nice if they could use this to help the DDOT budget out and allow them to increase frequencies on some of the busiest routes....

**English** · April-11-11, 07:23 PM

A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.

Nice first step, Detroit.

**mwilbert** · April-11-11, 07:42 PM

But, yes, you're right. Detroit has suffered, traditionally, from a lack of crosstown thoroughfares. In streetcar times, there were some decent crosstown routes. Hopefully, after we get a few radial lines running, we can go for crosstown routes too. The Baker car, for instance, connected Southwest and Hamtramck. Wouldn't that be something? Dinner at El Comal followed by drinks at the Whiskey? Hope springs eternal...

This is an example of why it might be wise to consider building spurs off of Woodward before building full arterials. It happens that the particular trip you describe would be entirely feasible with the additional 12.5 miles of track I proposed in a different thread a week or two ago.

Out Jefferson to E Grand Blvd. 2.6 mi

Out Michigan to Vernor, Vernor to Clark 3.1 miles [[or go to Livernois, 4 mi)

Out Warren to Grand Blvd. 2.4 mi

I'd like to run a line from Jos. Campau down Caniff to Woodward, but I'm not sure how you could continue past the end of Caniff. Assuming you just go down Trowbridge, 1.6 mi

Down McNichols from Woodward to Wyoming 2.8 mi

That would be 12.5 miles of track. [[or 13.4 if you went to Vernor and Livernois).

**Russix** · April-12-11, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

This is an example of why it might be wise to consider building spurs off of Woodward before building full arterials. It happens that the particular trip you describe would be entirely feasible with the additional 12.5 miles of track I proposed in a different thread a week or two ago.

It takes a hell of alot of effort and resources to get a shovel in the ground. In the next 25 years, the only thing on the map is adding BRT to the rest of the arterials with the possiblity of doing LRT if demand is there. Speaking of which, whatever happened to the proposed Arterial Rapid Transit[[which I guess is SMART buses with half the stops and traffic signal priority) that was suppose to be running by now?

**mwilbert** · April-11-11, 10:17 PM

There are quite a few houses even directly on Woodward, especially north of 6 Mile.

Are you sure you are thinking of the right street?

There are very few houses on Woodward north of 6 in Detroit. None at all on the west side of the street unless you count the backs of a few in Palmer Woods, basically none north of 7 on the east side, and hardly any south. If there are more than ten houses on Woodward in that entire two-mile stretch I would be surprised. And the ones there are, are in the highly blighted section near Goldengate.

**Bham1982** · April-11-11, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

Are you sure you are thinking of the right street?

I can definitely think of some [[rather large) homes on the east side of Woodward around 7 Mile. They don't directly face the sidewalk, but are more at an angle to Woodward.

My point is that Detroit, even along Woodward, is a city of houses, not apartment buildings. I was responding to the claim that houses were a 15-minute walk all along Woodward, when even Campus Martius would not be 15 minutes from single family homes.

There aren't that many apartment dwellers in Detroit, even along the Woodward corridor. The Census shows that Detroit is really a city of homeowners, and even the renters tend to live in houses, rather than multifamily.

**Detroitnerd** · April-12-11, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I can definitely think of some [[rather large) homes on the east side of Woodward around 7 Mile. They don't directly face the sidewalk, but are more at an angle to Woodward.

My point is that Detroit, even along Woodward, is a city of houses, not apartment buildings. I was responding to the claim that houses were a 15-minute walk all along Woodward, when even Campus Martius would not be 15 minutes from single family homes.

There aren't that many apartment dwellers in Detroit, even along the Woodward corridor. The Census shows that Detroit is really a city of homeowners, and even the renters tend to live in houses, rather than multifamily.

I thought we were talking about the initial line up to New Center. My point was that there are plenty of houses within an acceptable walk of Woodward. But, yes, you're right: If you are talking about Woodward up to Eight Mile Road, there are lots of houses just off the avenue, and recently some of them were going for as little as $40,000.

**Brian1979** · April-12-11, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I can definitely think of some [[rather large) homes on the east side of Woodward around 7 Mile. They don't directly face the sidewalk, but are more at an angle to Woodward.

My point is that Detroit, even along Woodward, is a city of houses, not apartment buildings. I was responding to the claim that houses were a 15-minute walk all along Woodward, when even Campus Martius would not be 15 minutes from single family homes.

There aren't that many apartment dwellers in Detroit, even along the Woodward corridor. The Census shows that Detroit is really a city of homeowners, and even the renters tend to live in houses, rather than multifamily.

There are very very few houses along Woodward anywhere in Detroit. Maybe in the Boston-Edison area you might see a few but Woodward does not have these houses that you claim it does anywhere in Detroit and as a matter of fact there aren't many houses if any all the way to Pontiac. Where are these large homes at Woodward and 7 Mile at? Last I knew there was a McDonald's on the NE corner of Woodward and 7 Mile and no homes let along large homes along Woodward anywhere in sight.