Drastic Cuts Proposed For Detroit Schools

[Det_ard]

This doesn't have an ice cubes chance in hell and is probably just a power play against the union. Union contracts with the school board set the max number of students per class at something like 35, I believe. The state would have to go to court and get those contracts voided in order to legally do this... And about the only way to get those contracts voided would be for the district to declare bankruptcy. Michigan won't let the district declare bankruptcy, which is why they appointed an emergency financial manager in the first place.

The class size limit isn't being followed currently, according to teachers who post here. Why? There's not enough money to do so. As the district continues to lose students, class sizes will continue to go up, regardless of what the labor contract says. They can't hire enough teachers to get class sizes down because the money doesn't exist to do so. I don't know if the doomsday scenario in Bobb's plan is likely or not, but just because a union contract says "35 max" doesn't mean the money to accomplish that will magically appear.

DPS is in the final stages of a death spiral that's been going on for decades. Poor academic performance > fewer students > less money > cutbacks > poor academic performance ...
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

[DetroitTeacher]

i am pretty speechless about all of this. I've taught 60 kids in one class before. It was no picnic, but I did it. I don't want to do it again. IF teachers had support from parents and the kids valued education, and the admin supported us and gave us books and adequate room, it wouldn't be so bad. I have 30 kids, half of witch are emotionally impaired in one of my classes. it's a nightmare and I am doing more behavior management than teaching during that hour. I don't see any of this working with the current state of "inclusion" that the district is in [[and they aren't even doing THAT right).

I love my kids and I really don't want to go elsewhere. I really believe that these kids that are left deserve a chance but I don't see that happening if all of these closings happen. After this last batch of closings, DPS was a logistical nightmare [[way beyond what they reported in the papers). Some of my kids already have to travel an hour and a half by bus to get to school. Schools are turning away kids because they are "at capacity" and don't have the teachers to service the kids. They COULD have the teachers but DPS keeps taking teachers out of the classrooms, out of the buildings, and switching things up midway through a card marking. It's a clusterfuck of confusion, actually.

[professorscott]

I agree with everybody that DPS is financially in a very bad place, and what is proposed is going to make it even more difficult for the children to get a proper education. The question, though, is what can be done? The essential problem is that there isn't enough money available to the district for it to run as it should. One of the troubling aspects of this is that the district has so badly managed its affairs over the years that nobody outside DPS is going to be very eager to throw more money at it.

But there are still tens of thousands of kids in Detroit who deserve a decent education; most of them aren't getting one now, and it seems this is almost certain to make things worse, if "worse" is even imaginable.

So what to do? Complaining about it won't help; facts are facts and the money just isn't there. Detroit is broke, DPS is broke, Michigan is broke and most of us are broke. So what to do?

[iheartthed]

The class size limit isn't being followed currently, according to teachers who post here.

That's beside the point. From a legal standpoint, the state and/or district can't set a policy that violates their contract with the union.

[Hypestyles]

...Now what.. this on the day of the state of the city speech.. of course Bing does not control management of DPS.. he had better avoid mentioning this..
Where is the federal assistance, Arne Duncan, et. al?

..any billionaires who could be cajoled into helping out? Who was that guy who wanted to build a bunch of schools here but got stonewalled?

[Det_ard]

That's beside the point. From a legal standpoint, the state and/or district can't set a policy that violates their contract with the union.

Yes, evidently the district would be in violation of their contract with the union, just as they are now. l'm sure they're also in violation of various NCLB rules about providing extra help to students in failing schools, etc. But the money isn't there, so what is your point? How do you get money to magically appear? Or are you just making the point that the contract is being violated? Which is apparently true, but ...

[Det_ard]

...Now what.. this on the day of the state of the city speech.. of course Bing does not control management of DPS.. he had better avoid mentioning this..
Where is the federal assistance, Arne Duncan, et. al?

..any billionaires who could be cajoled into helping out? Who was that guy who wanted to build a bunch of schools here but got stonewalled?

I didn't expect much out of Obama generally, but for some reason I did think that he, with Arne Duncan, would take some interest in Detroit's school situation. Perhaps as a laboratory to try promising reforms, or something. Yet I can't think of anything Obama's administration has done to help Detroit's schools.

[iheartthed]

Yes, evidently the district would be in violation of their contract with the union, just as they are now. l'm sure they're also in violation of various NCLB rules about providing extra help to students in failing schools, etc. But the money isn't there, so what is your point? How do you get money to magically appear? Or are you just making the point that the contract is being violated? Which is apparently true, but ...

The contract is being violated because the teachers haven't challenged it yet. The district is under state control, so the district's resources is effectively as deep at the state of Michigan's tax rolls. Since the state hasn't pushed DPS into bankruptcy -- and apparently doesn't want to -- then the state is responsible for fulfilling DPS's financial obligations.

[mwilbert]

There is no percentage in Obama trying to fix Detroit's schools. Who would give you credit--the citizens of Detroit who are probably already 97% in favor of you already? And it would have a vanishingly small chance of having any noticeable effect.

If the DPS has a competent administration, which as far as I can see is one of the many things it doesn't have, Detroit would make a good place to try things out in the schools, because you can't do much damage, and improvement would be pretty apparent. However, before you throw money down a rathole, it is best to get rid of the rats.

[R8RBOB]

I agree with everybody that DPS is financially in a very bad place, and what is proposed is going to make it even more difficult for the children to get a proper education. The question, though, is what can be done? The essential problem is that there isn't enough money available to the district for it to run as it should. One of the troubling aspects of this is that the district has so badly managed its affairs over the years that nobody outside DPS is going to be very eager to throw more money at it.

But there are still tens of thousands of kids in Detroit who deserve a decent education; most of them aren't getting one now, and it seems this is almost certain to make things worse, if "worse" is even imaginable.

So what to do? Complaining about it won't help; facts are facts and the money just isn't there. Detroit is broke, DPS is broke, Michigan is broke and most of us are broke. So what to do?

I was reading this and I agree with what you're saying but I have to ask; was the effort worth it? DPS has been closing schools since 2005. They have been laying off teachers and other staff for years. The governor brought in Bobb to clean up DPS and he promoted "I'm In" and got Bill Cosby to come to town to sell DPS to skeptical parents and in the end, the effort was still a failure so now the state wants to instill the nuclear option. Close half the schools and pack the classrooms. You're are right. The state is broke and DPS is broke. Perhaps, the state should have let DPS die years ago because this plan will surely put the final nail in the coffin..

[old guy]

I hate to say it folks, but I think the writing was on the wall the day they voted to keep the tax breaks in place for the wealthiest Americans. Their kids don't attend public schools. They don't use public transportation. Cuts in any of these areas won't affect them.
I'm afraid this is just the beginning. In all honesty, I don't think they're worried about having a large portion of the population under educated. The only possible light I can see here is that they might have made a mistake by screwing with the the educational system first. One other ray of light I can see is that I think there might be a number of tea party people out there wondering, what the hell did we just do. We do have to save the schools, there are few things that are more important. I also have to agree with Gannon, better start planting some veggies.

[English]

I hate to say it folks, but I think the writing was on the wall the day they voted to keep the tax breaks in place for the wealthiest Americans. Their kids don't attend public schools. They don't use public transportation. Cuts in any of these areas won't affect them.
I'm afraid this is just the beginning. In all honesty, I don't think they're worried about having a large portion of the population under educated. The only possible light I can see here is that they might have made a mistake by screwing with the the educational system first. One other ray of light I can see is that I think there might be a number of tea party people out there wondering, what the hell did we just do. We do have to save the schools, there are few things that are more important. I also have to agree with Gannon, better start planting some veggies.

Thank you, old guy. The crazy thing is that once all the inner cities are dystopian wastelands, and the "hardworking taxpayers" aren't paying a dime [[or sparing a thought) for anyone poor, brown, or black, many in the American "middle class" actually believe that all will be well in their world. They do not get that our elites are apathetic towards them and their children, too.

We are all in this together. United, we have a prayer of reversing our race to the bottom & plutocracy. Divided, we are destined for neo-feudalism and worse.

[mwilbert]

. Divided, we are destined for neo-feudalism and worse.

I don't think neo-feudalism--feudalism has a land tenure aspect which is completely absent here. Neo-Gilded-Ageism, I think would be more likely. Until the robots take over.

[English]

I don't think neo-feudalism--feudalism has a land tenure aspect which is completely absent here. Neo-Gilded-Ageism, I think would be more likely. Until the robots take over.

You're right. Neo-feudalism's actually a better outcome than we could hope for. So is a new Gilded Age. In my worst moments, I fear that something more sinister is planned.

We've long had no use for the poorest and darkest "citizens" of the United States... that's been my entire lifetime.

Since I was a teen, we've had less and less use for the working class.

Now that I'm in my "prime," we are seeing the end of the middle class.

Where's all this going? Not only does the endgame that we're rushing toward frighten me, I fear that in the end, many of us will cheer on our own demise. We are certainly rhetorically poisoning ourselves now by pretending that we're preserving our own best interests.

[PCN]

The state has class size limits for special ed students. After they chase everyone else out with a class size of 60, special ed will be all that is left.

The state created the deficit. Then they brought in Bob Bob who managed to keep the deficit going. He should give himself another raise.

[DetroitDad]

You're right. Neo-feudalism's actually a better outcome than we could hope for. So is a new Gilded Age. In my worst moments, I fear that something more sinister is planned.

We've long had no use for the poorest and darkest "citizens" of the United States... that's been my entire lifetime.

Since I was a teen, we've had less and less use for the working class.

Now that I'm in my "prime," we are seeing the end of the middle class.

Where's all this going? Not only does the endgame that we're rushing toward frighten me, I fear that in the end, many of us will cheer on our own demise. We are certainly rhetorically poisoning ourselves now by pretending that we're preserving our own best interests.

Capitalism is like advanced nuclear technology; in the right hands it can power a nation, but in the wrong hands it can destroy the world.

-Sean of Detroit


PS: English, I think you were right the first time. The fall of the Soviet Union was comparable to the Gilded Age. The fall of the American Empire would be more likely to result in something more comparable to feudalism.

[NorthEndere]

i am pretty speechless about all of this. I've taught 60 kids in one class before. It was no picnic, but I did it.

Not a personal strike against you, or anythhing, but you didn't teach 60 kids in one class before. You tried to teach 60 kids in one class before, because it's simply not possible, even with the most attentive students. And, again, this won't even be logistically possible in some schools and classes simply because the rooms are too small. I've heard of students having class in closets and hallways across the country, and this is with 30 or so students. You start getting average sizes of 60 [[meaning that some classes will actually be larger than 60 students) and this simply becomes physically impossible. I mean, we're talking large, public university style lectures...but without the facilities to handle such a class size.

[DetroitTeacher]

OK, I tried to teach. I reached some kids and some kids were too distracted for me to do anything for them. I have a good relationship with my kids and they were pretty good about it. They raced to class to get a seat. They were, for the most part, paying attention and doing what I asked of them. Granted, they were all seniors and wanted to get out of dodge so I didn't have it too bad. I was also a senior sponsor so they saw my face at every event we had. That helped a great deal. I sold them their shirts and tickets to events, added them as friends to my Facebook, and stayed after school to help those who needed some one on one or a smaller instructional setting. I put everything we did online, which made it easier for them to get some extra support. All of this helped me gain their trust and in trusting me, they gave me the courtesy of adhering to class rules and giving me and others respect in such a large class. They also realized that they needed me to graduate since I was the only teacher teaching a required class for graduation.

We shared books, they took turns with the chairs that I brought it [[most of my boys gave up their seat to the girls, amazingly enough). I didn't have enough room or supplies but we made do. I had to explain to them that we were in this boat together and we could sink it or keep it afloat. i think it had a lot to do with the fact that they respected me and I respected them. Attitude is half the battle. I don't want a repeat of that year, don't get me wrong. Other teachers who had 60 in their room were at their wits end. One science teacher had 67 freshmen in one class. He retired early.

i have to admit, if I had 60 freshmen, I would have probably quit [[or started drinking heavily).

[GOAT]

Might as well shut down the whole system. Students and parents will either flee or fight. Problem is that there is no place for 70K students to suddenly go to. We may be seeing our own version of Tahrir Square or Madison.

I think it would also present grounds for denial of equal opportunity suits.

Detroit could only hope, but I doubt anyone will assemble. Apathy knows no bounds.

[R8RBOB]

After reading Rochelle Riley's column this morning, http://www.freep.com/article/2011022...city-s-revival I have to say that I wished Bing would have pushed to take control of the school district. Because Bing doesn't control the schools, he doesn't have to focus on the fate of the schools. He can talk about how Detroit is on its way back yet the state is on the cusp of feeding the school district cyanide. You may be able to get some folks, most likely single folks to move to Detroit but with a dead school system there is no way you can convince families to relocate here and pay Detroit taxes and pay for charter or private schools. It won't work.

[mwilbert]

You may be able to get some folks, most likely single folks to move to Detroit but with a dead school system there is no way you can convince families to relocate here and pay Detroit taxes and pay for charter or private schools. It won't work.

You don't have to pay to go to a charter. It would certainly help the city if the DPS were a functioning school system, but it hasn't been for a long time, isn't, and isn't likely to be anytime soon. Any strategy for attracting people to the city has to work without any help from the DPS.

[Melocoton]

So what to do? Complaining about it won't help; facts are facts and the money just isn't there. Detroit is broke, DPS is broke, Michigan is broke and most of us are broke. So what to do?

We have to begin by realizing that we're not "broke," for starters.

This is a myth repeated enough times by Republicans that it's started to sound like common sense. But unlike a person or a household that's "broke," a state government has the power to raise revenue--by taxes, or by other means. So yes, the money isn't there in the budget now, but it's not there for a reason: the state simply returns more and more of the public's wealth to the wealthy, rather than spending it on public services and the public good.

This might sound like a rhetorical point, but the Right is so good at setting the terms of the debate that it begins to make any alternatives to the terrible predicament we're in seem impossible.

[canuck]

Quite a stunner when you think this is set in one of the wealthiest metropolitan regions in the world. There is something almost wrong in how this is bound to happen. I agree with English in that you could do away with a couple of new shops, snazzy transit and other goodies, but someone [[ones) should draw a line at edjucayshun. Maybe smaller school boards could be a temporary answer. In my city, bigger school boards are viewed as heavy on bureaucracy at the expense of service. The health care system is also seen as a bureaucratic nightmare leaving less room and money to actual care to patients. Teachers need teacher's assistants, specialists and special program classes. They do not need to face a classroom with 60 students.

This is a list of the world's wealthiest metros;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...e_world_by_GDP

[R8RBOB]

It would certainly help the city if the DPS were a functioning school system, but it hasn't been for a long time, isn't, and isn't likely to be anytime soon. Any strategy for attracting people to the city has to work without any help from the DPS.

About 20 years ago, I worked with a guy at Handy Andy. [[remember those? Used to be Forest City) He was giving me a ride back to Detroit and he was telling me that he left Detroit for Southfield because he wanted his sons to get a good education and he left in the 70's.

Your statement about DPS not being a functioning school system is so correct and now we understand why so many families like the guy I was talking about left Detroit. The schools were shit and the suburbs had better schools so Detroiters became suburbanites. There is no way families are going to volunteer to move to Detroit if there are no decent schools for their children to attend. Sure you can get young people who may want to move here but let them start families and they will out in the burbs again because there will be no functioning school system to send their kids too. The only reason why more families haven't fled the city is that suburban schools who also are catching hell have been recruiting city kids to attend their schools like Inkster.

[hermousefriday]

Am I wrong or wasn't the Michigan Lottery designated to schools? Is anyone giving an accounting of where that money goes? Like Judge Judy says, "if it doesn't make sense, it isn't true". Something smells really fishy here in Michigan and it isn't the Asian Carp.

Good point. I wonder how they decide where exactly the money goes. It would make sense to put it towards emergency cases, like this.

Anyone know what schools are closing? This is disturbing. 60 students per class? Aren't they trying to get more kids to go to school? What a joke.