suburban urbanization...

[Detroitnerd]

Growing up in the D, Grosse Pointe was just where the hoity-toity rich folks lived. We just went there to see the Christmas lights in the neighborhoods. There wasn't the "politics of resentment" back then. Our blue collar neighborhood just accepted that the world was divided into the rich, us, and the slums. We didn't endlessly grind away about it. Inequality was a given.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

Growing up in the D, Grosse Pointe was just where the hoity-toity rich folks lived. We just went there to see the Christmas lights in the neighborhoods. There wasn't the "politics of resentment" back then. Our blue collar neighborhood just accepted that the world was divided into the rich, us, and the slums. We didn't endlessly grind away about it. Inequality was a given.

Hermod, I like the way you have described the world I grew up in [[I was a "us" detroiter in the middle of your scale) but I wonder from your perspective if you rise to the level of the rich and enjoy all the perks you worked so hard for...is it still inequality as you describe in your post. For me its just achieving the American Dream, and that dream is open to all comers [[although some have to work harder than others). Like my old man used to say "Life isn't fair or easy".

[Hermod]

Hermod, I like the way you have described the world I grew up in [[I was a "us" detroiter in the middle of your scale) but I wonder from your perspective if you rise to the level of the rich and enjoy all the perks you worked so hard for...is it still inequality as you describe in your post. For me its just achieving the American Dream, and that dream is open to all comers [[although some have to work harder than others). Like my old man used to say "Life isn't fair or easy".

Yes, I hear about some baseball player/rock star/corporate CEO raking in $20 mill a year and I just say, "good for him". I will "ooooh and aaaaah" over his mansion, Lambroghini, and 150 foot yacht. My bills are paid, my car is paid for, and I have money in the bank. Since I once lived in a trailer park at $2.667 a year gross, I am living pretty damn good for a guy that grew up blue collar in a small bungalow in Detroit. I thank God for my good fortune and do not commit the sin of envy about the higher incomes of my "betters".

[Detroitnerd]

Of course there are people who want to reduce the whole issue of inequality to "envy" and "sin." The way I see it, the game is rigged, and we're not living in "inequality" so much as "end-game inequality," where the rich have almost all the wealth of the nation, and have tilted the table in their favor so much that it's all working people can do to hold onto whatever money they have. That's where a lot of today's resentment begins and ends. There are plenty of rich people who aren't total parasites and sociopaths, just like there are people who grew up working-class but don't realize all the shoulders they are standing upon and bad-mouth the very social forces that allowed them to prosper.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...ating-20111025

[Johnnny5]

Of course there are people who want to reduce the whole issue of inequality to "envy" and "sin." The way I see it, the game is rigged, and we're not living in "inequality" so much as "end-game inequality," where the rich have almost all the wealth of the nation, and have tilted the table in their favor so much that it's all working people can do to hold onto whatever money they have. That's where a lot of today's resentment begins and ends. There are plenty of rich people who aren't total parasites and sociopaths, just like there are people who grew up working-class but don't realize all the shoulders they are standing upon and bad-mouth the very social forces that allowed them to prosper.

We need a "Thumb's up" smiley.... Honestly, it's not very often that I agree with your posts, but in this case I'm definitely making an exception.

[Detroitnerd]

Thanks, Johnnny5!

[nain rouge]

Growing up in the D, Grosse Pointe was just where the hoity-toity rich folks lived. We just went there to see the Christmas lights in the neighborhoods. There wasn't the "politics of resentment" back then. Our blue collar neighborhood just accepted that the world was divided into the rich, us, and the slums. We didn't endlessly grind away about it. Inequality was a given.

That's cute, but I think the real issue is the lack of quality recreation spaces on the Detroit River waterfront. People wouldn't care that St. Clair Shores and the Grosse Pointes had private parks on the water if there were well-funded public parks nearby. As it stands, you have to go to Metro Beach or Elizabeth Park in Trenton for any serious recreational opportunities. It's a shame.

You'll say, of course, that Detroit has plenty of parks on the water. But we all know that Detroit has been strategically disinvested in for at least a half-century now. When I stilled lived in the area, I'd go to Detroit parks now and then, but many were overgrown and decayed. Don't we deserve better? And I'm just including suburbanites in that comment, but the people of Detroit.

Just because you're blue collar, it doesn't mean you don't deserve a quality waterfront. That's ridiculous. Yeah, yeah - they've poured some money into the RiverWalk. Like I'd always say, there's nothing like frying on unshaded concrete on a hot summer's day.

Please.

Hem and haw all you want, but if Metro Detroit is ever going to attract significant amounts of people ever again, reclaiming the waterfront will be a piece of the puzzle. Look at the bigger picture instead of making excuses about income inequality. You look backwards.

[Hermod]

That's cute, but I think the real issue is the lack of quality recreation spaces on the Detroit River waterfront. People wouldn't care that St. Clair Shores and the Grosse Pointes had private parks on the water if there were well-funded public parks nearby. As it stands, you have to go to Metro Beach or Elizabeth Park in Trenton for any serious recreational opportunities. It's a shame.

You'll say, of course, that Detroit has plenty of parks on the water. But we all know that Detroit has been strategically disinvested in for at least a half-century now. When I stilled lived in the area, I'd go to Detroit parks now and then, but many were overgrown and decayed. Don't we deserve better? And I'm just including suburbanites in that comment, but the people of Detroit.

Just because you're blue collar, it doesn't mean you don't deserve a quality waterfront. That's ridiculous. Yeah, yeah - they've poured some money into the RiverWalk. Like I'd always say, there's nothing like frying on unshaded concrete on a hot summer's day.

Please.

Hem and haw all you want, but if Metro Detroit is ever going to attract significant amounts of people ever again, reclaiming the waterfront will be a piece of the puzzle. Look at the bigger picture instead of making excuses about income inequality. You look backwards.

Growing up in Detroit, we had Belle Isle, Gabriel Richard Park, and Waterworks Park on the water. Now they have added Millken Tri-Centenial Park, Chene Park, Owen Park, Emma Henderson Park, Alfred Brush Ford Park, and Riverfront/Lakewood Park all in Detroit. Lots more public space on the waterfront than when I was growing up in Detroit. The Detroit waterfront parks have far more square footage and capacity than do the small parks in the Grosse Points. Detroit has a higher ratio of city employees to population than it had in 1950. The neglect of the parks indicates that too many city employees are swivel chair jockeys instead of being out there doing useful work. They think that manual labor is the president of Mexico.

[nain rouge]

Lots more public space on the waterfront than when I was growing up in Detroit.

I won't argue that. What I will say is that if we want to make Detroit the geographical center of our recreational waterfront, the entire region needs to invest in Detroit's waterfront and view at as a regional asset. As it is, we're continually disinvesting in Detroit in a major way, while at the same time failing to making significant investment in the suburban waterfront. You can't do that if you want quality recreation.

In regards to the quality of Detroit's employees, what standard of employee do you expect to jump on to a financially sinking ship? Detroit is our region's black hole of investment. Sure, there are some altruistic, quality people that will work for Detroit in their mission almost no matter what, but there aren't enough of those folks around to float a city government.

You can't dissociate cause and effect when discussing Detroit's problems.

[Hermod]

I won't argue that. What I will say is that if we want to make Detroit the geographical center of our recreational waterfront, the entire region needs to invest in Detroit's waterfront and view at as a regional asset. As it is, we're continually disinvesting in Detroit in a major way, while at the same time failing to making significant investment in the suburban waterfront. You can't do that if you want quality recreation.
[/COLOR]

Then why all the angst about the state taking over and investing in Belle Isle? If you do get state or regional investment, "they are stealing our jewels!!!"

[nain rouge]

I'm not against the state taking over Belle Isle.

[nain rouge]

I will say, though, that the entrance fee bothers me. Imagine if you had to pay to enter Central Park. It would take away from the allure. In my mind, an urban park shouldn't be treated like a state park, even if it receives state funds. Then again, maybe the thinking is that the east side will be forest again one day. I don't know.

Still, the fee isn't a deal breaker. It's better than nothing, assuming the state comes through on its end. It's a step in the right direction.

[rex]

Not every community has a downtown type area. I think you need a few consecutive streets for that type of development in order to qualify. Many of Detroits suburbs didnt plan for that and just filled all space with single family homes. Whats done is done. Take Ferndale for instance. If the streets a block north and south of 9 mile weren't residential it would probably have succeeded and been similar to Royal Oak. Other areas like Novi seem too far removed. I saw another thread comparing Royal Oak to Pontiac and the first thing I thought was post like its 2001. Is anything happening in Pontiac? Back when they had Arts Beats an Eats and the night clubs there seemed to be a little momentum