Raise Your Hand if You're Sick and Tired of RUIN PORN

[iheartthed]

While I share the op's opinion that "it's been done", I think the real missed opportunity is no one has figured out to monetize the ruins. Disinterested landlords, incompetent , and/or downright hostile ones like DIBC are missing a golden opportunity to make some money here. Imagine if they only authorized entry after a fee was paid or got some back end on the book/print sales? Of course that would open them up to things like ACTUALLY securing the building to keep out free loaders. Probably have to maintain it a bit to keep it safe to protect against lawsuits. Eh.. .strike all that. For anyone to monetize the ruins, the property owners would actually have to be responsible property owners first.

Exactly! Detroit's collection of historical ruins would be great for a tour bus operator, similar to the Gray Line and City Sights double deckers that ride around New York City. There is enough history in Detroit to make an interesting narrative for tourists. And urban tourism generates very big bucks...

[Richard]

It was not to long ago there was no internet ,people overseas viewed the US from what they watched on television ,Dallas ,soap operas where everybody lived in huge houses and drove expensive cars,everybody in America was rich,then technology kicked in and reality was born.

I do not think there is a major city in this whole country that does not have ruins of some sort.Look at it from the other side, once Detroit is finished rebuilding imagine the wow factor of the before and after.

[313rd]

I also was brought to this website, bu the "Ruin" pictures and have stuck around for the conversations.

The link for the blog above on grocery stores in the city is awesome. I will be using that link and replying to the people who think there are no stores in the city.

There was also a link on this forum, that showed some great neighborhoods.

I wish that I had the time, lived in the state and a knack for photography....because then I would create a blog/article/youtube video or whatever showing all the great things in the city!

[jackie5275]

This is the one that somebody emailed me yesterday that pushed me over the edge: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kisa-l...?ref=fb&src=sp

Overall, I'm just upset about the intent of some of these more recent journalists and photographers. Are they just jumping on the "let's photograph and write about these same 5 abandoned buildings in Detroit" bandwagon, or are they actually creating something of artistic or educational value?

I had the same item posted to me by a Facebook friend with a small picture of Old Slumpy. In her post, she lamented the demise of some of these buildings & questioned why rich people couldn't buy them all, renovate them, & sell them to people who she thinks will maintain them properly. She was unaware that Old Slumpy had been demolished.

I partially agree with your being upset of the recent influx of journalist & photographers. Yes, I think there are a certain amount of them who are just "jumping on the bandwagon". I also think a certain amount of them are creating something of value. What the percentage is between the two types is something that I can't readily figure out. However, I have to believe that all them, whatever their motivation, are here spending some money on lodging, food, transporatation, etc. while they're here. So in that respect it's a good thing.

[fryar]

The link for the blog above on grocery stores in the city is awesome. I will be using that link and replying to the people who think there are no stores in the city.

I hate to douse that fire, but... much better information is available in this thread, the blog post I linked to unfortunately is pretty open to ridicule. It makes this remark that sounds like a game changer, "each of those orange dots is a supermarket, not a liquor or discount store," about a screencap of a Google Map search for "detroit, supermarket." There is quite the density of orange dots in that Google Maps image, so the whole thing seems to put paid to the idea that there are no supermarkets in Detroit. Surprisingly, commenters attack this statement for the fact that many of the orange dots shown are actually outside the city limits, some even in Ontario. The real problem, though, is that if you run your own Google Maps search for "detroit, supermarket," many of those orange dots are, in fact, liquor and discount store's. The former often being referred to by Google Maps as party stores, natch. Maybe the blogger is not a local, and just assumed that meant chips & salsa or cheese trays or something.

I wish that I had the time, lived in the state and a knack for photography....because then I would create a blog/article/youtube video or whatever showing all the great things in the city!

Honestly, that is a great idea, even without photos. When I first moved to Detroit, I could have really used that blog. Or even just a Twitter feed. A Wiki? Whatever, some kind of a not-for-tourists guide to help in successfully making a go of living in Detroit. What are you supposed to do if you need that infamous hammer, start a thread on DY? While other threads may debate the effectiveness of the marketing of independent business in Detroit, how the hell was I supposed to know about Honeybee? Wouldja believe in three years of living in the CBD, I never heard about? I only ever encountered the consensus that you more or less do have to go to the suburbs for most things that rise to levels above and beyond canned corn. There was a supermarket that I might describe as uninspiring a ways down Lafayette, and it's not like I didn't go there sometimes to buy the aforementioned canned corn. I would still have driven out to the burbs from time to time for Trader Joe's, because I like it, but I definitely had an inferior perspective on the offerings in Detroit than appears to have been warranted. For example, apparently Honeybee's salsa is to die for. And unless I just didn't run the right Google searches not to give up on Detroit in that regard, I understand my misperception was not highly unusual. Basically, if even the locals don't get it, Patti Smith's artists who are priced out of New York and ideally fleeing to Detroit en masse would be well-served by such a resource.

[Mr. Houdini]

People love to rubberneck. What's more fascinating than seeing a train wreck?

[canuck]

Yeah, I agree with Lowell and Magna about the outcome from all these pictures. If Lowell had a pioneering spirit that others merely opened up to, then that is all for good. When I became more aware of the situation Detroit faced, I needed to get it from pictures. To avoid that is to sweep dirt under the proverbial rug, or is it the proverbial dirt under the rug? Irregardless or rather regardless, these pictures are bound to elicit emotions and they need to be offset on this forum by cheerful stuff, by the positive aspects of life in duh D. There are plenty of buildings that are the envy of up and coming cities that for all kinds of reasons attract investment. The goal for Metro Detroiters is to gather forces and manage to create an excitement for what is there and a project that will distinguish the city from all others. It is not about bigness anymore. Bigness is not a goal. Chinese cities will be the big thing from now on. We need to look at novel ways of building an economy and a built environment in North America. Something to be proud of.

[erikd]

Photos of ruins might be a cliche to those of us who live, work and/or play in Detroit. But they aren't a cliche to people in the rest of the world. What has happened to Detroit in the past 60 years is extraordinary, and while I hate to see the city disparaged to outsiders, I try to understand why outsiders would be interested in this amazing transformation of what was the industrial powerhouse of the most powerful nation on Earth. I'm sure there have been photographers who have ben less than sincere, but most of the photo essays and books on Detroit I've seen in the past few years have been intelligent and sympathetic even to the city and its plight.

No one has been specific in their complaints. What are the pornographic works that people are thinking of?

One specific example is this article in the Huffington Post from last week:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...96.html#218521

The headline reads: "Haunting Images of Detroit's Decline"

This headline is followed by morbid dreck:

"A new book called Ruins of Detroit displays Detroit's downtown landmarks in decay: Abandoned hotels, houses and schools line the streets as a reminder of the city's economic downfall over the past century. The devastation takes on an eerie beauty, as captured by Yves Marchand and Romain Meffre.

The photographs show once-lively structures of an American city, now remembered by its remains."

The caption above the slideshow reads: "Take a look at the ruins of this city"

The slideshow features pictures of the MCS, of course, but fails to mention the fact that this building has been owned by a multi-billionare for almost two decades, and it is falling apart because he is a delinquent slumlord who refuses to properly secure and maintain his property. The article also fails to mention the fact that the MCS is surrounded by the Corktown and Mexicantown neighborhoods, which have seen an increase in population and building rehabs despite his reign of blight which acts as a major deterrent to investment in the surrounding area.

The slideshow also shows pictures of the "ruined" Fort-Shelby Hotel, which re-opened two years ago after an $82 million restoration.

The slideshow also shows pictures of the old Cass Tech High School, which is being demolished because it was replaced by a new $114 million building five years ago.

The slideshow also shows pictures of the "ruined" David Broderick Tower, which is currently undergoing a $50 million renovation project that started a month before this article was published.

This type of maudlin dross is annoying when it is promoted by amateur photographers and ignorant internet bloggers, but it is completely unacceptable when it is promoted as fact by organizations claiming to be reputable news sources.

[BrushStart]

ABSOLUTELY, erikd. What you just described is what really chaps my ass.

[night-timer]

Photos of ruins might be a cliche to those of us who live, work and/or play in Detroit. But they aren't a cliche to people in the rest of the world. What has happened to Detroit in the past 60 years is extraordinary, and while I hate to see the city disparaged to outsiders, I try to understand why outsiders would be interested in this amazing transformation of what was the industrial powerhouse of the most powerful nation on Earth. I'm sure there have been photographers who have ben less than sincere, but most of the photo essays and books on Detroit I've seen in the past few years have been intelligent and sympathetic even to the city and its plight.

No one has been specific in their complaints. What are the pornographic works that people are thinking of?

Don't complain too loud about 'ruin porn' photographers and other visitors; I can't think of too many industrialized work-a-day cities, run-down areas or ghettoes that could attract as many enthralled visitors as Detroit does. People fall in love with even your scummy areas. Dunno how you guys do it, but it shows what a truly amazing city you have.

[Gistok]

Well here's an interesting ruin that is not at all Detroit related....

A NYC graphic design artist came up with this design [[better than spending $12,000 for recreating "Old Slumpy")... 100% in LEGO bricks.... called "2 story with basement"...
http://images.mocpages.com/user_imag...93m_SPLASH.jpg

Not every ruin is about Detroit...

[night-timer]

So, basically, I don't mind looking at ruin porn at all. Apart from Lowell's work, what are some good links to some?

[LeannaM]

I can certainly understand your frustration. As an outsider, having never been to Detroit, a lot of the images are negative. However, there have been a few positive stories lately. It is not all bad press.

Those ruined buildings are beautiful in their own way. I think most people who photograph them do so to capture their beauty. I'm sure some are trying to make money off of it. Although, a photographer likes to cover his expenses.

I love St. Louis. It is smaller than Detroit, but there are quite a few ruins. It has a bad reputation. However, most of the pictures you see of St. Louis are positive ones. I can imagine if I only saw pictures of ruins I would be upset, too. It can make the city look bad. However, Detroit is also interesting because parts of it [[there are nice areas) are kind of snapshots of what a city could look like once abandoned. It makes people wonder about life and cities and stuff.

I know in St. Louis much of the bad press for the city seems to come from the suburbs. Though not all suburbanites hate the city. However, I wonder at the ones who do. They are really shooting themselves in the foot, since many of them work in the city and play in the city. If the city goes down the suburbs won't be far behind.

I can understand your frustration. I don't live in St. Louis, but I know what a great city it is, despite its issues. I get frustrated when people, but especially Suburbanites who should know better, put the city in a bad light and exaggerate its issues. At the same time, you can't ignore them. But, I'm sure this is the case with any city, the negativity is not usually helpful. It can be, but it's not always. St. Louis negative image tends to be more in the form of crime reports and bad articles than pictures, though. Since the Downtown renovations of the last decade there are only a few large empty buildings left, so St. Louis doesn't really have as many large ruined buildings to photograph, though the North Side does have plenty of blighted areas [[but not all of the North Side is bad).

I do like Lowell's photos. I've never been to Detroit, but it does look like it would be a great place to explore. Thanks to Lowell [[and other photographers) I can see the beauty in Detroit, even though I have never had the pleasure of visiting. However, I can see how those images could reflect badly on Detroit. They also do inspire some people to really think. It can be good or bad.

[skyl4rk]

I like ruin porn.

[Rockin' Best]

Fair points from both sides. There certainly is more to the D than the ruins. Of course! But the visual power of neglect and decay is arresting.

For a philosophical "take" on the topic, the ruins are a stark contrast to the world that us kids from the 60s grew up in. Things were going up, not down. There was always something fresh and new appearing in our midst. There was that exciting sense of promise, that there was an incredible world awaiting us going forward. Continuing in that same thought, then, these ruins represent a counter-reality - that not everything in life gets better. That we, collectively, reach limitations.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into this. Meanwhile, as a photographer and videographer, I see the incredible art that some shooters create. It stimulates my imagination.

One of the fantasy shots I would love to do involves putting theatrical magnesium flash bombs inside MCS, and clicking the shutter nanoseconds after they are set off. The station [[and tower, if I could) would have brilliant beams of light coming out of their dark empty spaces. With colored gels, those light beams could also take on hues.

Trippy!

[Rockin' Best]

Another thought. There's Ruin Porn of many flavors. Google this: "S.S. American Star" This is an ocean liner [[Originally S.S. America, the sister ship of the S.S. United States) that ran aground in the Canary Islands [[Fuerterventura) in 1994. From then until 2007, the weather and waves systematically dismantled this huge ship to nothing. The pictures of this decay are incredible - I watched the process on the Internet over a span of years, and kick myself for not going there to see it in person. Here is a website devoted to this ship: http://www.ss-australis.com/americanstar.htm. Click around and see everything - it's worth it.

[Russix]

When I was young kid, it seems like my parents were always taking me on some vacation to visit some anicent abandoned historical ruin. They were all beautiful, just like what we have in Detroit, but try finding a modern day citizen of Rome who can tell you anything about their ruins like the story we can about our past. They have to dig deep underground and we just have to ask our grandparents. Future generations will treasure the history of when Detroit designed and built the modern world. Some people call it ruin porn, others call it archaeology.

[erikd]

I partially agree with your being upset of the recent influx of journalist & photographers. Yes, I think there are a certain amount of them who are just "jumping on the bandwagon". I also think a certain amount of them are creating something of value. What the percentage is between the two types is something that I can't readily figure out. However, I have to believe that all them, whatever their motivation, are here spending some money on lodging, food, transporatation, etc. while they're here. So in that respect it's a good thing.

I don't think that people realize the damage caused by ruin porn, especially when it is promoted in the national media.

The obsession with showcasing vacant buildings in Detroit, which is extremely biased and almost never presented in proper context, has little or nothing to do with providing insight or promoting educated discussion, but rather promoting shocking images to sell books, attract television viewers, and increase web traffic.

This negative media focus is very humiliating for city leaders, and it puts great pressure on them to take immediate drastic actions [[usually demolition), even if it is detrimental in the long run.

I explained the absolute failure of promoting speculative demolition in the Cass Tech thread:

"Many people, including many government leaders, agree with your concept of speculative demolition.

It seems to make sense in theory... if a building has been vacant for more than a few years, it has proven to be a blighted eyesore beyond repair, and should be demolished to make the site more attractive for redevelopment.

The only problem with the theory of speculative demolition as a tool to promote development in downtown Detroit is that it has proven to be an absolute, complete, unequivocal failure.

I can not think of one example over the last 15 years in downtown Detroit where speculative demolition has resulted in redevelopment of the site. The Tuller, the Statler, the Hudsons building, the Lafayette, the Madison Lenox, etc. Not a SINGLE ONE of these sites has been redeveloped.

Compare the absolute failure of speculative demolition to the astounding success of renovating downtown buildings that sat vacant and run down for decades... The Book Cadillac was a vacant building for 25 years. The Fort Shelby was vacant for over 30 years. Think about the Kales building, the Iodent building, the five vacant buildings remodeled into Merchants Row, the three vacant buildings remodeled into the Lofts at Woodward, the Cliff Bells building, the Lafer building, the Hartz building, the Eureka building, the Madison building. The David Broderick tower is currently getting a complete renovation after decades of sitting mostly vacant.

Contrary to popular opinion, the vacant "eyesore" buildings in downtown Detroit are not liabilities preventing the city from attracting investment and development. In fact, the old vacant "eyesore" buildings are the most attractive sites to developers investing in the city.

The facts are blatantly obvious. Speculative demolition in downtown Detroit leads to absolute failure, and patiently waiting for redevelopment of long vacant buildings is a proven path for success."

[jtf1972]

I think human nature tends to be fascinated with the aftermath of decay and/or destruction. I guarantee more people look at the World Trade Center online now more than they did when the towers stood tall. Look at photos of the 1906 San Francisco earthquake devastation... it is stunning.

With that said, I was just talking the other day about how sick I am about every site online about Detroit seeming to be one glorifying the decimation. How someday soon I hope that just as you can find with the S.F. earthquake, there will be sites celebrating how what we see in these images was once Detroit, but with current photos celebrating its revival as "Beautiful Detroit" & "The Paris of the Midwest."

It would take a lot, but I believe it is possible.

[Vox]

The New Republic has an interesting slant on this.
http://www.tnr.com/article/metro-pol...-disaster-porn

[sumas]

I drive Detroit [[eastside) all the time and maybe I am numbed to our decimation. I am mezmerized by the beautiful old homes sitting empty, burnt out, gutted. I wonder about those homes and the stories they could tell. There is a beauty there that I can't describe. I am not a photo geek or poet. They just have a spirit of their own. It has it's own beauty.

[fryar]

The people at Chrysler [[Chrysler 200 ad) are sick and tired of it, and they're not going to take it anymore?

They did a nice job, in that ad, addressing the OP's concerns, I thought. Was it enough to make you spill your beer, BS?

[MSUguy]

This is the one that somebody emailed me yesterday that pushed me over the edge: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kisa-l...?ref=fb&src=sp

I especially enjoyed this part:


I am not going to post the other articles people have sent me, [[a) because I didn't save the links, and [[b) because I'd be promoting what I'm sick and tired of seeing and reading about. I will say that the worst was when TIME did that documentary [[or whatever it was) featuring a bunch of Detroit's ruins, I got like three messages about that one from various people.

Overall, I'm just upset about the intent of some of these more recent journalists and photographers. Are they just jumping on the "let's photograph and write about these same 5 abandoned buildings in Detroit" bandwagon, or are they actually creating something of artistic or educational value?

Count me amoung that are tired and the huffpo link is the exact thing I dislike. What is the value of this book? It seems to tell no story other than to portray the city as some Mad Max universe. Too many of these photographers seem be trying out do each other in proving how artsy/esoteric they are by coming here taking pictures of abdanboned buildings. I don't want reality swept under the rug the ruins exsist, they are fascinating and beautiful; they're the reason that many of us are here in the first place. But there needs to be context, a story for these pictures to truly have value.

[Richard]

The people at Chrysler [[Chrysler 200 ad) are sick and tired of it, and they're not going to take it anymore?

They did a nice job, in that ad, addressing the OP's concerns, I thought. Was it enough to make you spill your beer, BS?

If I could fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the trunk I would buy one .. Kudos

[reddog289]

That 200 might be a good car for the wife, I am with Richard on that one. But Back to the topic. Without the ruin porn sites I would not have found this site. See before I had daily access to the internet, I read and looked at picture books.Mainly of Baseball and Detroit. I pretty much learned half what I know by walking,playing, and driving in the streets and alley ways of this city. The rest was learned in the burbs.
My Uncle was teaching me to drive in the early 80's. There were plenty of ruins in Brush Park and he would take me down Grand River, Show me the Grande and have me drive around Brush Park, Rivertown and other low traffic areas.I saw them first hand.
15 years ago, I was gungho on demo.I wanted to tear it all down. Hudsons, MCD, Brush Park, and even Tiger Stadium. But from looking at the pictures, videos and reading the stories and history of the buildings and this city from the people who, Lived, worked and played in them. I can say I like seeing buildings rehabbed.I get sad when I street view the places I played as a kid.
If anythiing ruin porn is a lesson on responsibility, Things should not get to the point where they are shown to the world in that state of ruin.