Wild Whole Foods Rumor

**downtownguy** · July-20-11, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

The problem with Lafayette park is that it doesn't follow urban rules. So "three blocks" from Greektown is actually more like five blocks because you have to go around the freeway and superblocks. The transition from urban CBD to suburban apartment district is extremely dramatic. One block you have the vibrant Greektown, the next block it is completely dead and silent. I'd take what was there before over what is there now any day, even if it was a grimy blighted mess.

OK, I'll take the bait. First of all, I said from the Greektown Casino. Second, In the urban west side neighborhood where I grew up, there were 6 city blocks between the mile roads. With 5,280 feet in a mile, my city blocks were 880 feet long. According to Google Earth, it's 2,900 feet from the Casino to Lafayette Foods or 3.25 of "my" city blocks. How about this, casscorridor? It's a 10 minute walk. Sheesh!

**casscorridor** · July-20-11, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

Eh, Lafayette Park ain't so bad. Most cities have at least a few districts like that. There's also no reason why denser developments can't occur in that area in the future. I know, it's doubtful, but not completely impossible if the demand was there.

No, its not that bad now. But its construction, along with urban renewal in general, was to the detriment of the inner city. In any other city, the area directly adjacent to the downtown would be very dense and urban and a critical point of development. Imagine if Monroe street kept going, and gradually transitioned from downtown to dense residential neighborhoods. Imagine a seamless transition between Downtown, the Riverfront and Eastern Market. The whole dynamic of the central city would be radically different. The footprint of Lafayette/Elmwood is so massive, and ate up so much of the OLD city [[pre-1900), that it is now basically inconceivable what it would be like otherwise. The same is true in Corktown, where that light-industrial park ate up most of pre-1900 Corktown. And Brush Park? Not much left of that either. So in every direction - north, east and west - the continuous blocks outward from Downtown and consisting of densely packed buildings and homes were destroyed, for the exception of a few small pockets. It is easy to ignore the impact 50 years later, but I assure you it was detrimental. It was like an axe cutting the city into pieces. And its hard to recover from such flesh wounds. So sure, Lafayette Park might be a nice place to live now, but that doesn't justify its construction.

**casscorridor** · July-20-11, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

OK, I'll take the bait. First of all, I said from the Greektown Casino. Second, In the urban west side neighborhood where I grew up, there were 6 city blocks between the mile roads. With 5,280 feet in a mile, my city blocks were 880 feet long. According to Google Earth, it's 2,900 feet from the Casino to Lafayette Foods or 3.25 of "my" city blocks. How about this, casscorridor? It's a 10 minute walk. Sheesh!

I wasn't trying to argue distances. I was really trying to say that there is a stark boundary between Downtown and Lafayette Park, and they have conflicting urban landscapes. This fact makes living in Downtown and shopping at Lafayette foods unappealing, even if its only a 10 minute walk.

**BrushStart** · July-20-11, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

No, its not that bad now. But its construction, along with urban renewal in general, was to the detriment of the inner city. In any other city, the area directly adjacent to the downtown would be very dense and urban and a critical point of development. Imagine if Monroe street kept going, and gradually transitioned from downtown to dense residential neighborhoods. Imagine a seamless transition between Downtown, the Riverfront and Eastern Market. The whole dynamic of the central city would be radically different. The footprint of Lafayette/Elmwood is so massive, and ate up so much of the OLD city [[pre-1900), that it is now basically inconceivable what it would be like otherwise. The same is true in Corktown, where that light-industrial park ate up most of pre-1900 Corktown. And Brush Park? Not much left of that either. So in every direction - north, east and west - the continuous blocks outward from Downtown and consisting of densely packed buildings and homes were destroyed, for the exception of a few small pockets. It is easy to ignore the impact 50 years later, but I assure you it was detrimental. It was like an axe cutting the city into pieces. And its hard to recover from such flesh wounds. So sure, Lafayette Park might be a nice place to live now, but that doesn't justify its construction.

I agree with your premise, but it's like crying over spilled milk. If Lafayette Park had never been built, it might look a whole lot like Brush Park- mainly empty lots where dense urban buildings once stood, with a few rehabbed houses. At least the Lafayette Park of today is a viable residential area with some middle class city residents. Plus, I think Lafayette Park is not entirely suburban in nature. It is not super dense, super walkable urban, but it is not really suburban either. It is more of a hybrid.

**mwilbert** · July-20-11, 08:50 PM

I don't really see the stark boundary.

Lafayette in front of the townhouses and 1300 Lafayette isn't very interesting, but I think the freeway is the biggest single problem. Also, whatever that thing is that blocks Monroe. But the problem is on the Greektown side too. I was checking this out on foot a few weeks ago and after you cross the freeway on Lafayette, you have to walk by the church [[which is visually attractive, but does nothing to make the street lively) and some parking lots, and end up at a block of uninteresting casino frontage. There isn't anything useful until you get halfway past St. Antoine or turn up it and go to Monroe. I didn't walk down the block of Monroe between St. Antoine and the freeway, but it didn't look very inviting either. I didn't feel the contrast between the two sides that you do, superblock or not.

This isn't going to come a revelation to anyone, but the huge number of surface lots downtown really detracts from the pedestrian experience.

**Jason** · July-20-11, 09:37 PM

Lafayette Park was built over what was the absolute worst neighborhood in Detroit. If it hadn't been demolished it would be far worse than Brush park today. Brush Park was made up of sturdy brick structures that people would care to renovate today, while Black Bottom was filled with wood structures that were falling apart before demolition even started.

What you have now is a very diverse [[income, race, education, background, age) neighborhood, that has a good neighborhood elementary school a good high school just over a mile away, and strong community, and it's affordable [[not Palmer Park). In addition to that, all of it is well maintained, there are no empty lots or crack houses or other houses weighing the neighborhood down. It's density is about the same as the city's average and it's higher than Palmer Park's, while at the same time providing large, safe, well-used park space.

The buildings are by Mies van der Rohe, the planning by Ludwig Hilberseimer, and landscape by Alfred Caldwell, all of them among the greatest of their era in their respective fields, so people who are into that kind of stuff should appreciate it.

I think Lafeyette Park is one of the best neighborhoods in Detroit.

The main criticism of Lafayette Park would be about what happened to the people who used to live in Black Bottom. Housing projects were built for them, and for a few years they were successful, but it wasn't long before they became just as horrible places to live in as Black Bottom was.

I have less defense for Elmwood Park, although even still, it's a nicer place to live than the overwhelming majority of Detroit, and architecturally I think there's something there to discover.

**stinkytofu** · July-25-11, 10:19 AM

Rumor has it Whole Foods may announce this Wednesday...

While speculation surrounding Austin TX-based Whole Foods Inc's interest in Detroit has come from everywhere but the company itself, Mayor Bing dropped the biggest hint to date that the company is ready to make its announcement.

According to Crain's reporter Nancy Kaffer's Twitter feed, Bing said there is going to be a big community announcement this Wednesday.

#Detroit @mayordavebing on #wholefoods: "We've got a lot of things that are supposed to be secret" but expect big community news Wednesday.

This Wednesday also happens to be the day Whole Foods releases its third quarter earnings and any new store announcements must be made within those statements.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...t-announcement

**Hypestyles** · July-25-11, 10:29 AM

are any of the positions at whole foods unionized? I remember with Wal-Mart, at one point there ended up being a "scandal" of sorts with butchers & other food preparers..

**English** · July-25-11, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Jason

Lafayette Park was built over what was the absolute worst neighborhood in Detroit. If it hadn't been demolished it would be far worse than Brush park today. Brush Park was made up of sturdy brick structures that people would care to renovate today, while Black Bottom was filled with wood structures that were falling apart before demolition even started.

What you have now is a very diverse [[income, race, education, background, age) neighborhood, that has a good neighborhood elementary school a good high school just over a mile away, and strong community, and it's affordable [[not Palmer Park). In addition to that, all of it is well maintained, there are no empty lots or crack houses or other houses weighing the neighborhood down. It's density is about the same as the city's average and it's higher than Palmer Park's, while at the same time providing large, safe, well-used park space.

The buildings are by Mies van der Rohe, the planning by Ludwig Hilberseimer, and landscape by Alfred Caldwell, all of them among the greatest of their era in their respective fields, so people who are into that kind of stuff should appreciate it.

I think Lafeyette Park is one of the best neighborhoods in Detroit.

The main criticism of Lafayette Park would be about what happened to the people who used to live in Black Bottom. Housing projects were built for them, and for a few years they were successful, but it wasn't long before they became just as horrible places to live in as Black Bottom was.

I have less defense for Elmwood Park, although even still, it's a nicer place to live than the overwhelming majority of Detroit, and architecturally I think there's something there to discover.

I would tend to agree with this. Lafayette Park is one of Detroit's strengths/gems, not its detriment.

I agree that urban density is important. However, Detroit was never as dense as many comparable cities. As we revitalize, my vision for the city by midcentury is a metropolis that still has its edge/some ruins [[like overseas, we could capitalize from our history), but that features awesome gardens, parks, revitalized creeks, and even some "wild spots". What we see today as holes in our urban fabric could very well be many "cities within a city" connected by public transportation.

Then again, I chose to live near the river instead of in Midtown precisely because I wanted water, grass, and trees. I like that I can walk out my front door and be on the Riverwalk in less than 5 minutes. It is also something that differentiates Detroit from every other city. Lafayette Park was also very appealing but slightly more expensive.

**Carey** · July-25-11, 12:29 PM

It does appear that the mayor will announce Wednesday that Whole Foods is coming to Mack and Woodward. Kudos to Hamtown Mike, who first reported this on DY.