La Vogue Apartments renovation

[davewindsor]

And where do all the people come from to make it work? In 1950, Detroit had 1.8m people. In 1980, the city had 1.2m. Now it has around 800,000 and still declining.

Light rail from downtown to Palmer Park is going to get half a million people to move back to the city? Where do all the people come from to make this work? And what will they do here for a living if they move back? Light rail is supposed to make all these people come back to the city? It'll take a lot more than positive thinking to bring that area of the city back to a decent state. How about a miracle? The area is so lawless that the last time I drove through there cars weren't even stopping and waiting at red lights--they just drove straight through the busy intersection. Plus, I just don't change looking at the 60 year trend of declining population data.

Ok here I go with my predictions again

I think the palmer park apt district is going to make a major comeback if/when light rail serves it. The area really has some things going for it. First of all Detroit doesn't have many apartment districts and few places anywhere could compete with the architecture found in this area.

The other big perk is that is is right off of woodward and very concentrated plus palmer park is right across the way. My prediction is that as downtown and midtown get more expensive and the light rail comes this way this spot will be very popular with the younger crowd. As it is beautiful apartments are dirt cheap there and I know I would be interested in one if I could hop on the train and be downtown in a few minutes.

I can't say how bad that area is crime wise currently but eventually I could imagine a private security patrol for the area given how small and dense it is. If you could live in a stunning apartment for half the price of downtown [[but a 5 minute trip away) I think many would go for it.

[mwilbert]

And where do all the people come from to make it work? In 1950, Detroit had 1.8m people. In 1980, the city had 1.2m. Now it has around 800,000 and still declining.

Light rail from downtown to Palmer Park is going to get half a million people to move back to the city?

No, nor does it need to. The Palmer Park area probably couldn't house more than 20,000 people if everything were full, and there are already lots of people there.

Light rail will make the area a little more attractive. If it improves the retail around 6 and Woodward, it will make the area a fair bit more attractive. I have been considering moving to Palmer Park when I stop wanting to live in a house, and the light rail would make me more inclined to do so. That's still several years away, so I'll see what things are like then.

[davewindsor]

If 20,000 people moved into the city next year, I doubt more than a few hundred would choose Palmer Park. It's a huge city and there's so many other places to live closer [[and that are safer for that matter) than 7 miles from downtown.

But, that's all moot. There isn't even evidence that there will be a net increase of 1 resident to the city, let alone 20,000 or even the half a million you'll need. So where are the people going to come from? Light rail isn't going to make a difference unless there's a huge surge of decent paying new jobs that light rail would take residents to from stops along Woodward. Light rail is just throwing good money after bad.

No, nor does it need to. The Palmer Park area probably couldn't house more than 20,000 people if everything were full, and there are already lots of people there.

Light rail will make the area a little more attractive. If it improves the retail around 6 and Woodward, it will make the area a fair bit more attractive. I have been considering moving to Palmer Park when I stop wanting to live in a house, and the light rail would make me more inclined to do so. That's still several years away, so I'll see what things are like then.

[softailrider]

No, nor does it need to. The Palmer Park area probably couldn't house more than 20,000 people if everything were full, and there are already lots of people there.

Light rail will make the area a little more attractive. If it improves the retail around 6 and Woodward, it will make the area a fair bit more attractive. I have been considering moving to Palmer Park when I stop wanting to live in a house, and the light rail would make me more inclined to do so. That's still several years away, so I'll see what things are like then.

I'll agree the retail around 6 Mile and Woodward could use some improvement. Still waiting for that Meijers up the street on State Fair.

[softailrider]

And where do all the people come from to make it work? In 1950, Detroit had 1.8m people. In 1980, the city had 1.2m. Now it has around 800,000 and still declining.

Light rail from downtown to Palmer Park is going to get half a million people to move back to the city? Where do all the people come from to make this work? And what will they do here for a living if they move back? Light rail is supposed to make all these people come back to the city? It'll take a lot more than positive thinking to bring that area of the city back to a decent state. How about a miracle? The area is so lawless that the last time I drove through there cars weren't even stopping and waiting at red lights--they just drove straight through the busy intersection. Plus, I just don't change looking at the 60 year trend of declining population data.

I'm in the city every day. The vast majority [[99%+) of the traffic I see stops for red lights.

[davewindsor]

I'm in the city every day. The vast majority [[99%+) of the traffic I see stops for red lights.

Last time I was driving through Palmer Park, I had cars honking like I was insane for stopping at a red light and pass me and whip straight through red lights. That was month ago. Time was around 6-7pm. Maybe they were worried a pedestrian would pull out a gun and carjack them. I don't know. Almost everyone was doing it. It happened at two intersections. It wasn't a yellow light turning red. It was red when I got there and I stopped. They didn't even treat it as a four way stop and stop. They just slowed down a little and whipped right through. Happened twice and I got the hell out of there and back on Woodward because I didn't want to get hit.

[bartock]

Last time I was driving through Palmer Park, I had cars honking like I was insane for stopping at a red light and pass me and whip straight through red lights. That was month ago. Time was around 6-7pm. Maybe they were worried a pedestrian would pull out a gun and carjack them. I don't know. Almost everyone was doing it. It happened at two intersections. It wasn't a yellow light turning red. It was red when I got there and I stopped. They didn't even treat it as a four way stop and stop. They just slowed down a little and whipped right through. Happened twice and I got the hell out of there and back on Woodward because I didn't want to get hit.

What red light in Palmer Park? I don't know of any. McNichols, perhaps?

[davewindsor]

I turned off Woodward to check out a street lined with old apartment buildings. Later, I saw a couple burnt out ones. I'll have to look on the map again figure out the street.

What red light in Palmer Park? I don't know of any. McNichols, perhaps?

[davewindsor]

What red light in Palmer Park? I don't know of any. McNichols, perhaps?

Had a look at the map. Are there traffic lights on McNichols? If so, I think it was McNichols.

[bartock]

Had a look at the map. Are there traffic lights on McNichols? If so, I think it was McNichols.

2nd, 3rd, Merton all around there are burnt/blown out apartments. My guess is that you were on McNichols, the driving on McNichols can be totally insane, though I doubt anyone was worried about being carjacked nearly as much as that is just demolition derby driving and most don't care.

[Zacha341]

Six mile is a zoo right around there... I avoid six mile due to the lack of any adherance to traffic lights. They might as well turn them off. It gets a bit better nearer Livernois...

Last time I was driving through Palmer Park, I had cars honking like I was insane for stopping at a red light and pass me and whip straight through red lights. That was month ago. Time was around 6-7pm. Maybe they were worried a pedestrian would pull out a gun and carjack them. I don't know. Almost everyone was doing it. It happened at two intersections. It wasn't a yellow light turning red. It was red when I got there and I stopped. They didn't even treat it as a four way stop and stop. They just slowed down a little and whipped right through. Happened twice and I got the hell out of there and back on Woodward because I didn't want to get hit.

[mwilbert]

But, that's all moot. There isn't even evidence that there will be a net increase of 1 resident to the city, let alone 20,000 or even the half a million you'll need. So where are the people going to come from? Light rail isn't going to make a difference unless there's a huge surge of decent paying new jobs that light rail would take residents to from stops along Woodward. Light rail is just throwing good money after bad.

I don't think anyone believes light rail is going to repopulate Detroit. I believe it could help repopulate the Woodward corridor, of which Palmer Park is a part. Nor do I believe that a lot of that population has to come from outside the city--we want to encourage people to move from the prairie to the denser areas, like Palmer Park. You could increase the density along Woodward as the population of the city continues to fall. That wouldn't surprise me at all.

[softailrider]

[QUOTE=davewindsor;219481]Last time I was driving through Palmer Park, I had cars honking like I was insane for stopping at a red light and pass me and whip straight through red lights. That was month ago. Time was around 6-7pm. Maybe they were worried a pedestrian would pull out a gun and carjack them. I don't know. Almost everyone was doing it. It happened at two intersections. It wasn't a yellow light turning red. It was red when I got there and I stopped. They didn't even treat it as a four way stop and stop. They just slowed down a little and whipped right through. Happened twice and I got the hell out of there and back on Woodward because I didn't want to get hit.[/QUOTE

Being in the city 5 to 6 days a week, in every area you can think of, I see people run yellow lights all the time. I see see people speeding way over the limits, on every street and expressway in town. Like I said before though, when a light is red I very rarely see anyone ignore it and drive right through, almost everyone waits for the light to change to green. That includes any part of 6 Mile Road. I'm not saying it never happens, I just don't see that very often at all.

[Roq]

The area is so lawless that the last time I drove through there cars weren't even stopping and waiting at red lights--they just drove straight through the busy intersection.

I was there last night and people were stopping at all the lights on McNichols with tedious regularity.