Michigan, worst place to do business!

[Stosh]

Now? 3 months into Obama's term of office?

Actually, yes, but that takes into account that I have climbed a ladder in my field over the last 8 years.

Wow. Just wow. Man that must be a big ass ladder. How do you get internet access up there?

[ccbatson]

Broadband internet access, no less.

Truth is truth....believe what you like.

[ghettopalmetto]

Which deep recession are you referring to?

Qualified stats are weak stats Rb.

"Qualified"??? You mean adjusting for inflation is now a "qualifying statement"? Yikes!

[rb336]

gp, anything that allows him to squirm away from truth is a good thing, or did you not notice?

[ccbatson]

Yes, and more....Median, for a 8 year window, and relative to the period before that showed growth.

An analogy to Japan's economy fits here. They have been in a recession for 10 years [[or so) now. However, until very recently, they were not doing very badly at all. Why? The huge growth that they had leading up to this 10 year mark was unsustainable.

[Jimaz]

FWIW, I noticed one of those Jeff Daniels Michigan Economic Development Corporation TV commercials playing in Hollywood, Florida a few days ago. Michigan is getting some positive exposure down there. Their sincerity seems to make them pretty effective.

http://www.michiganadvantage.org/default.aspx

[Lorax]

I'm the one on this thread who lives in both Florida, and Michigan, and I see "Pure Michigan" ads every day, several times per day, and Jeff Daniel's ads as well. I hope they keep it up, as it really does help people know that Michigan exists, and has alot to offer.

That said, Crapitalist Prig, the one who started this thread, needs to wake up- Michigan isn't worse off having a state income tax, sure, it sucks to have to pay it, but here in Florida, we don't see any measurable effect from not having one.

We are so taxed in this state in so many other ways, and on top of it, our schools rank near dead last in quality and accomplishment of any state in the union.

Our lottery was suppose to fix that problem, and of course, with that much money floating around, graft and corruption gets in the way, and the schools suffer.

Florida has generally been regarded as a safe haven for wealthy prigs to shelter their incomes, and are easy plane hops to the tax havens of the Caribbean, where most shysters set up their evasion schemes. Truly a paradise for Crapitalist Prigs.

Miami runs it's politics like Detroit, only worse. We actually have council people, have had mayors, who were indicted criminals, served jail time, and were re-elected by the well educated population.

Tourists come here, urinate in public, barf on sidewalks, strew garbage, and cause traffic accidents daily. I can't even leave home for a few hours, doing errands, without a near-miss accident- DAILY!

Be grateful for what you have, I'll be coming back in the near future for half a year or more, and will transition back as business permits.

[ccbatson]

No measurable effect? Logic tells you that a potential business venture will gravitate away from places that have higher taxes to those that have lower taxes. I guess lack of growth is hard to measure, but loss of production is not transparent.

[rb336]

No measurable effect? Logic tells you that a potential business venture will gravitate away from places that have higher taxes to those that have lower taxes. I guess lack of growth is hard to measure, but loss of production is not transparent.

which is why many of the fastest growing states had HIGHER corporate taxes than michigan

[Lorax]

No measurable effect? Logic tells you that a potential business venture will gravitate away from places that have higher taxes to those that have lower taxes. I guess lack of growth is hard to measure, but loss of production is not transparent.

Living up to your Batcrap reputation as ever, I see.

Lack of a state income tax here in florida has given us a great influx of tax evading criminals, mob figures, Trump types, and of course the elderly, no offense to the elderly, but so many concentrated in one place puts strains on quality health care, schools, [[since they always vote down millage increases having no school age kids)

Oh, and I forgot to mention illegal aliens, and the poverty stricken in general, since any tax savings is better than none at all as far as they are concerned.

Tax policy, especially corporate tax policy and it's effects are more visible in the positive sense of the word in places like Michigan, Illinois, etc. Because Michigan has great universities, which turn out skilled professionals, coupled with a skilled unionized labor pool, with a generally good work ethic, you get greater economic growth. That's not up for debate.

Compared to the lack of an educated population, [[don't forget we had Jeb Bush for years as governor) no unionization, overrun with illegals and elderly, you get the banana republic which Florida has become over the years. I know, I live here.

[ghettopalmetto]

No measurable effect? Logic tells you that a potential business venture will gravitate away from places that have higher taxes to those that have lower taxes. I guess lack of growth is hard to measure, but loss of production is not transparent.

I guess that's why the whole of Manhattan is packing up and moving to Mississippi, right?

[Flanders]

"My capitalists" haven't had a chance yet.....Reagan was close [[and did a big bang up job).

The good thing here is that, in the US, we get a chance at a do over in 4 years [[sooner for some in congress). Remember that Reagan followed....Carter....a relative amateur Marxist next to Obama.

There ain't no Reagan in the political pipeline Bats, and GWB was your Carter..

I would love to see a Palin/Bachmann GOP ticket in '12.

Female fundie fanaticism FTL.

High comedy at its finest, and SNL could just perform their media interviews.

[ccbatson]

Jindahl, Romney [[reformed from Massuchusetts Romney), Giuliani, Palin, Jeb Bush, or one of many other non politician conservatives [[wouldn't that be great? a non politician for a fresh perspective.

[ccbatson]

Don't be so sure...remember Obama got in despite all conventional wisdom and predictions.

[ejames01]

Just wait til 2016!!!

[ccbatson]

Identifying with Obama as a mainstream Democrat will come back to haunt you as he demonstrates how radical and Marxist he is. This will be the undoing of the Democrats as Americans get more and more disgruntled with their loss of liberty and intrusion of big government.

[Lorax]

If anything, Obama is more of a centrist. He's not really living up to the hopes of the true left liberals, which is a shame, but we know why he's doing it.

See, one of the biggest differences between Dems and Repugs, is that we can read between the lines of intent vs. window dressing. Repugs see only the window dressing, and worse yet, swallow it hook, line and sinker.

[ccbatson]

Your ignorant dream is our [[everyone else's) nightmare Lorax. For you, and others like you, no need to worry, you will soon be rudely awakened from your dreams.

[Lorax]

You're the one living in fantasy land, Batboy.

You guys had 8 years of unfettered theft of the treasury, war, death and destruction- talk about a nightmare!

I'll take any communist, socialist, fantasy over that one any day of the week.

Actually my fantasy is seeing the Bush Crime Family in prison, bankrupted [[got to hit them where it hurts repugs most), and humiliated, if that is even possible, since they have no shame.

[ccbatson]

There you have it...you admit it yourself, unrealistic fantasies is what you are basing your ideology on.

[Lorax]

There you have it...you admit it yourself, unrealistic fantasies is what you are basing your ideology on.

Perhaps you haven't heard, but Obama won by a landslide, and that was WITH repugnican voter fraud going full-tilt boogie, so his margins were even greater than the "official" vote tally.

Obama represents the most Americans by insurmountable numbers. You, Batts, represent less than 20% of the voting population, which is amazing we even entertain your politically naive viewpoints here.

As far as my fantasy of seeing the Bush Crime Family imprisoned and bankrupted, perhaps it's not such a far-off fantasy. Time will tell.

However the court of public opinion has condemned the Bush Crime Family, which includes Big Dick Cheney, and the footnotes to their reign of terror will always include the illegal war of choice for oil gain, the illegal wiretapping, the illegal firing of judges for political purposes, not to minimize the murder of a million Iraquis, and 7000+ of our own citizens.

Quite a track record.

And you wonder why Obama won by a landslide?

You're lucky it was Obama who won, as opposed to someone uneducated, doctrinal, socially retarded and egotisitcal, say, like Sarah Palin. That would have been a disaster of global proportions. At least it doesn't make your loss look so bad.

[DetroitDad]

Part of the reason I think Michigan is viewed as terrible to do business in is the same reason we lack ample small business and instead have so many chains. It's the cost of entry. Many otherwise would be entrepreneurs are shut out of doing the things they love because of the high entry costs and red tape. Instead they go elsewhere.

On the other hand, the high costs support the entry of non Michigan headquartered chains. Chains like that there is such a high cost of entry. High cost of entry means less competition.

The problem besides the contribution to the Michigan exodus, is that it probably contributes to crime. Things like the Russell Bazaar must be God sends to locals who are in cash crunches, but is not enough. I can go to some other cities or states and operate at a flea market, a "nice" push cart, or as a street vendor for much less than I can in Detroit. Why would anyone actually start a business in Detroit other than family ties or karma?

[ccbatson]

He didn't win by a landslide...but he most certainly won.

Right leaning?? I can't imagine one single measure of conservatism on which he [[Obama) would be considered sympathetic. Some explanation would be nice Slim.

[Lorax]

Ah, yes, Obama won by a landslide, and did so with heavy duty repugnican voter fraud happening all over the place, especially in swing states, which are their favorite, and most logical targets, such as Ohio and Florida.

It makes his victory all the more one sided, since the numbers are likely 10-12% higher than the final tallies.

I live here, I know what goes down with the slimy "Brooks Brothers Brigades" and their voter supression tactics.

[ccbatson]

Sigh...define landslide....nuff said.

BTW, don't count your imaginary voter fraud [[ACORN has that market cornered for the libs anyway).