No Hudson's but Shopping is Back Downtown

[laphoque]

Busy Bees closes at 5pm which is a time when many people are getting off work.

That is the one thing I agree with about most of these stores. They should open at 12pm and close at 8pm or open normally and have a couple shifts. I barely see people out early in the morning except people who are going to work. The business that starts staying open late will do well.

[DetroitPlanner]

Not right downtown but Natural Dry Goods on Trumbull @ Howard has that stuff. For hardware you could go to Busy Bee in Eastern Market or there's one on Second St.

Downtown I don't think will ever have those things. I think they're trying to be more boutique than utility belt.

There's some men's clothing boutiques right off broadway that are cool too. They're real small but they have some nice things.

Thats National Dry Goods,,, and ya beat me to it darn-it!

[jackie5275]

Detroit planners should take there lessons from the surrounding suburbs. The suburbs retail district has rows of stores and shops and an occastional hardware store next to each other which stimulates walkability without the shopper/walker having to walk through an deserted area such as a freeway overpass that is on Lafayette going up to the drygoods place and Gratiot going up to BusyBee.

This is something I think is an important point. Yes, there is shopping spread out all around downtown. But that's just it. It's spread out. It's not conducive for walking around. If I buy something from Nat'l Dry Goods, then walk carrying my bags back into downtown, then walk to Busy Bee for something else, it's a hassle. I'm walking carrying bags of merchandise for 2-3 miles. Most shoppers don't want to do this. They want to go buy their stuff with as little hassle as possible. They're not interested in observing & enjoying the historic architecture on their route.
Nor is it really conducive for driving because the parking is a pain. As noted before, most of these businesses are only open during the day & close up by 6 pm. So I have to find a place to park on the street, most likely with a meter to shop at these places. I have to pay at the meter because I'm shopping during enforcement hours. I only get 15 mins for a quarter. This is going to happen at each of my stops. Most shoppers don't want to do this either. You can't get any decent shopping done in just 15 mins. Hamtramck, Ferndale, Milford, Northville all have shopping areas where shops are close together for walkability, & your quarter at the meter goes longer, at least a half an hour. Free or low cost parking and walkability give the suburbs more preference.

[DetroitPole]

Uh. Now the suburban retail is being called "walkable"? Look, while the suburbs have the vast majority of good, quality, and variety of retail, almost all of it is entirely unwalkable in the storefront sense. The cute little downtowns are the exception - not the rule. Big box stores and malls dominate the suburbs - I don't mean that in a derogatory way - I thought that it was pretty clear. And Hamtramck is a suburb now? This thread is a train wreck.

Yeah, I just love to walk to all my favorite stores along M-59

[DetroitPlanner]

Uh. Now the suburban retail is being called "walkable"? Look, while the suburbs have the vast majority of good, quality, and variety of retail, almost all of it is entirely unwalkable in the storefront sense. The cute little downtowns are the exception - not the rule. Big box stores and malls dominate the suburbs - I don't mean that in a derogatory way - I thought that it was pretty clear. And Hamtramck is a suburb now? This thread is a train wreck.

Yeah, I just love to walk to all my favorite stores along M-59

I'd agree the only 'walkable' districts are the food courts for drunken yuppies. I for one am glad they are walkin'!

[jackie5275]

Uh. Now the suburban retail is being called "walkable"? Look, while the suburbs have the vast majority of good, quality, and variety of retail, almost all of it is entirely unwalkable in the storefront sense. The cute little downtowns are the exception - not the rule. Big box stores and malls dominate the suburbs - I don't mean that in a derogatory way - I thought that it was pretty clear. And Hamtramck is a suburb now? This thread is a train wreck.

Yeah, I just love to walk to all my favorite stores along M-59

I wasn't trying to say Hamtramck is a suburb. I was trying to state Hamtramck has a walkable shopping district with parking that's cheaper than Detroit. Shopping areas in the suburbs are walkable, however, many people are too lazy to walk them. For example, Fairlane Green in Allen Park is quite walkable. I've walked it myself, but I've noted numerous times other folks will park in front of Target. They will shop at Target, and then drive their car to park in front of Michael's which is about 500 ft away and this is in good weather.

[jackie5275]

This thread is a train wreck.

Yeah, I suppose it is. I think it started with the misperception by the original poster. One boutique that happens to be open on Saturdays doesn't signal to hardly anyone else that shopping is back downtown. I think most folks will say shopping is back downtown when it looks like it did in the 1950s.

[SWMAP]

i am one of the people who drives around fairlane Green. Last summer was hot and humid nearly every day. Fairlane Green is one huge parking lot with tons of heat bouncing off the sea of concrete. No pretty plazas to break it up. No fountains or any similar amenities. I just couldn't walk around. Same in winter: salt crunching on concrete. Sea of ugliness, acres of salt-covered cars and sickening exhaust.

To me, raised in Detroit in the glory years of downtown shopping, Fairlane green is not shopping. It is pure drudgery. I only go there for the Wallflowers at the Bath store.

[stasu1213]

Thats National Dry Goods,,, and ya beat me to it darn-it!

All jokes aside. Those little boutiques sell t shirt with crazy designs or sayings on them that I have no interest in purchasing. It is for the very young and trendy

[BrushStart]

All jokes aside. Those little boutiques sell t shirt with crazy designs or sayings on them that I have no interest in purchasing. It is for the very young and trendy

I dig these types of places. No offense to your tastes or anything, but I'd like to see dozens more of similar boutiques downtown. They always have something interesting. When I need socks and V-necks, I just go to K-Mart.

[stasu1213]

This is something I think is an important point. Yes, there is shopping spread out all around downtown. But that's just it. It's spread out. It's not conducive for walking around. If I buy something from Nat'l Dry Goods, then walk carrying my bags back into downtown, then walk to Busy Bee for something else, it's a hassle. I'm walking carrying bags of merchandise for 2-3 miles. Most shoppers don't want to do this. They want to go buy their stuff with as little hassle as possible. They're not interested in observing & enjoying the historic architecture on their route.
Nor is it really conducive for driving because the parking is a pain. As noted before, most of these businesses are only open during the day & close up by 6 pm. So I have to find a place to park on the street, most likely with a meter to shop at these places. I have to pay at the meter because I'm shopping during enforcement hours. I only get 15 mins for a quarter. This is going to happen at each of my stops. Most shoppers don't want to do this either. You can't get any decent shopping done in just 15 mins. Hamtramck, Ferndale, Milford, Northville all have shopping areas where shops are close together for walkability, & your quarter at the meter goes longer, at least a half an hour. Free or low cost parking and walkability give the suburbs more preference.

Thank you! Finally someone who understands. Who wants to walk through desolate empty areas to get to the next shopping district. People please visit Birmingham's Old Woodward, Royal Oak's Main Street, Ferndale's Woodward and Nine, Grosse Pointe's Village and Hill on Kerchevals, Dearborn Height's Michigan Avenue with it's two Krogers, and Farmington Hill's Grand River. You would see what Jackie and I are referring to.

[jackie5275]

Fairlane Green is one huge parking lot with tons of heat bouncing off the sea of concrete. No pretty plazas to break it up. No fountains or any similar amenities.

They have some nicely landscaped sections. Remember though, Fairlane Green was built on an old clay landfill. The idea for it's construction was to reclaim an old landfill. I don't think they were concentrating on amenities rather just the idea of whether they could pull off the idea.

[fryar]

Wow, this is some thread.

1) My retort to the OP would be that Millender is of course configured entirely for abandonment of the city; it would be better for shopping downtown if that store were in one of the storefronts on Woodward, where one might casually amble by it on one's way to brunch at OHOP. Millenderś a badly done mall for those living in the era of OCP [[in their minds); I only ever went in there to access the Post Office.

2) My vote is for imitating what I am told is San Francisco's approach, where apparently you have significant limitations on opening a business location if you're not locally owned or headquartered. They have CVS's there too, they're just not called CVS's, and the town somehow manages to retain its used book stores as well. Once the dust settles [[I admit, things are quite dusty now), you have real differentiation for Detroit.

[Danny]

What shopping in Downtown Detroit?

[DetroitPlanner]

They have some nicely landscaped sections. Remember though, Fairlane Green was built on an old clay landfill. The idea for it's construction was to reclaim an old landfill. I don't think they were concentrating on amenities rather just the idea of whether they could pull off the idea.

Actually there are quite a few amenities here though the casual observer would never know. There is a network of pathways that were constructed, much of the parking lot was done with pervious surfaces to reduce run-off some of these pervious surfaces include arease where gravel in intermixed with brick. Water from the roofs is collected and used for greywater to flush toilets. Whenever I tak a non-planner up there and show them these things they think I am nuts. But then again most folks think I am nuts anyways!

The buildings themselves are not architectural marvels, they remind me of old bugs bunny cartoons where everything is exagerated. True ringing stores around 2 giant parking lots is old school for shopping development, but they were interested in attracting big boxes and thats the sort of schlock you get when you go after big boxes.

Millender was developed under the CA Young regime. At that time the City was looking to Minneapolis for inspiration. Minn has a lot of this. Consequently they have not much in the way of street life unless festivals are going on.

[313WX]

I would say that shopping had really came to downtown when I could buy a pair of Levi's, Lees, or Dickies blue jeans, sneakers, Khakis, casual cotton polos or long sleeve shirts, and fruit of the looms or Hanes underwear. Don't forget a hardware store

Busy Bee Hardware on Gratiot & Russell? Ace Hardwarde on Michigan & Trumbull?

Also, National Dry Goods on Michigan & Trumbull sells the clothing items you might like. .

[BrushStart]

Millender was developed under the CA Young regime. At that time the City was looking to Minneapolis for inspiration. Minn has a lot of this. Consequently they have not much in the way of street life unless festivals are going on.

True. The concourses of Millender Center between the apartments, hotel, RenCen, and Municipal Center are always busy with foot traffic. MC, the RenCen, and CAY are probably the busiest three buildings in the city, yet none of the pedestrian traffic reaches street level. Many workers at the RenCen who park in Millender's parking structure never set foot outside of the inter-connected complex during their workday. It makes you wonder how much more street life there would be if these buildings were not designed to be so insular.

[stasu1213]

Hey all, I just spent time shopping Downtown at this new boutique Sassy Fashion Couture in Millender Center next to Renaissance Center and the Tim Hortons. I missed their Grand Opening Party. The Lady told me they had food and wine and dj and raffle giveaways. But she is a real sweet heart! She carry's my size and has a lot of clothes for young adults and told me she is also getting in super plus sizes [[very fashionable)! Her prices are to die for, so reasonable and she is always getting stuff in three times a week since she likes to have one of a kind items! She gave me a gift for her grand opening. I have girlfriends who stay inside the Millender Center apartments and they said she actually ordered special items for them and she let them put it on Layaway! You Go Girl! Let's support. I mean shopping opened for business on weekends, now that's what i'm talking about. I don't know her address but she is inside the Millender Center by the Chinese Restaurant and Credit Union, and Domongo's Salon. My new hangout!!

Don't get me wrong; I don't want to negate the fact that the shops you had just named are not good ones. They are if they fit your needs. We need more of them and it is good that you had found something that is for you. I was just saying that we need more boutiques and shops to line Woodward also. Increase the intrest to go downtown and put high end shops in the Winter's Garden in the RenCen. Boutigues and specialty shops along Woodward, Broadway, and Washington Blvd. Pastry shops and gift shops could align Griswold at Capital Park.

[citylover]

I wouldn't necessarily say that Detroit retail isn't being marketed properly. Most Detroit retail is independent mom-and-pop type stores that simply can't afford TV commercials, billboards, and major marketing campaigns. They rely on word of mouth and local support because they can't compete with the tens of millions that the national chains spend on mass media marketing.

The inner cities of America are the last hope for independent retailers in our country, because the large national chain, big-box superstores have destroyed most of the independent retailers in the suburbs and rural areas.

The racist suburban mindset of the national mega-chains has made them avoid our inner cities, and it gives us an alternative to their goal of market control and consumer subjugation.

If Kroger and Wal-Mart didn't avoid Detroit because we are too black and/or too poor, they would have put Eastern Market and Honeybee out of business years ago. I am very happy that Wal-Mart refused to build a store on the Tiger Stadium site because it was too small for them.

Fuck Wal-Mart, Kroger, and the other big-box mega chains. I don't want them in my neighborhood. I don't want them to destroy 4 or 6 blocks of the downtown area for a hideous warehouse store with acres of parking. I moved to downtown Detroit to get away from that awful blight. I want to shop at small local independent grocers and retailers, not some blood sucking mega-chain that would do anything to show a short term profit of an extra nickel per share to appease their greedy Wall Street investors.

They are all in business to make money. Did it ever occur to you that the reason[[s) the demon "mega stores" do not locate in Detroit is customer safety and .."shrinkage".. via employees and customers? Why in the hell would any business not locate somewhere except for those reasons? Stop trying to blame racism it is not a factor. No retailer will locate where theircustomers are not safe or where their merchandise is being stolen by employees or customers......or if they do they will not last.

Here in Ann Arbor we have a variety of retail.However it is a very real dynamic that the big stores i.e Meijer Walmart etc have driven smaller retail out of business.

[SWMAP]

Retailers always cite two dynamics for avoiding Detroit: not enough income to support certain types of retail and immoderately high "shrinkage." I know that Hudson's downtown closed in major part because of shrinkage factors. That was 15 years after the Riot. I wonder if Detroit doesn't have more people who feel entitled to take stuff than other urban areas [[but no one will say it) and if this culture didn't have it's seeding in the riot? It's just so hard to understand why NO major retailer will locate here. I remember when that small athletic shoe store opened on Woodward[[for how long) and everyone was complaining about it's intrusive security and ever-peering floor walkers.

[Whitehouse]

Just a question out of interest,

Were the Hudson's department stores and the Hudson car manufacturer in any way related? Any common ancesters?

[EastsideQT]

Just a question out of interest,

Were the Hudson's department stores and the Hudson car manufacturer in any way related? Any common ancesters?

Both of my Grandfathers worked at Hudson Motor Car Company when they moved to Detroit in 1920. One came from South Carolina the other from Kentucky. The name Hudson came from Joseph L. Hudson, a Detroit department store entrepreneur and founder of Hudson's department store, who provided the necessary capital and gave permission for the company to be named after him [[wiki).

[BrushStart]

"Significant shrinkage!"

[stasu1213]

They are all in business to make money. Did it ever occur to you that the reason[[s) the demon "mega stores" do not locate in Detroit is customer safety and .."shrinkage".. via employees and customers? Why in the hell would any business not locate somewhere except for those reasons? Stop trying to blame racism it is not a factor. No retailer will locate where theircustomers are not safe or where their merchandise is being stolen by employees or customers......or if they do they will not last.

Here in Ann Arbor we have a variety of retail.However it is a very real dynamic that the big stores i.e Meijer Walmart etc have driven smaller retail out of business.

I agree with you when you had state that retailers will locate their businesses where their customers feel safe. This concern was raised to Charles Pugh pertaining to the aggressive panhandlers in Greektown. His response was nonchalant. He had felt that the panhandler problem is tedious but most of them are harmless. Detroiters can't move forward as far as downtown retail is concern when elected officials have that sort of attitude. I would like to say that the small mom and pop clothing stores and botiques will bring downtown detroit back in a more smarter efficient way. Independent stores and boutique could thrive downtown and it does in places such as Birmingham, Royal Oak, and Grosse Pointe. If one business fails or move from the area the whole area is not affected. Ann Arbor and other thriving communities that have the big box stores would have there retail district affected greatly if those stores were to move or closes. Once midtown come into it's own the major retail district as far as shops are concern in the strip on Woodward and Grand Blvd. Let focus on smaller independent businesses where the owners could live above them instead of box stores

[ferntruth]

Uh. Now the suburban retail is being called "walkable"? Look, while the suburbs have the vast majority of good, quality, and variety of retail, almost all of it is entirely unwalkable in the storefront sense. The cute little downtowns are the exception - not the rule. Big box stores and malls dominate the suburbs - I don't mean that in a derogatory way - I thought that it was pretty clear. And Hamtramck is a suburb now? This thread is a train wreck.

Yeah, I just love to walk to all my favorite stores along M-59

Yeah, I love walking and shopping downtown Ferndale, and the business district along Woodward.

I love how everything on this site seems to boil down to suburbs are evil for this reason, and Detroit is evil for that reason. It's not just this thread that is a train wreck.