Cairo, Eqypt - Riots Chaos Protests

[rb336]

Yes, we ignored Ike and it is driving the country to bankruptcy - and again it all started with Reagan amping up military spending beyond sustainable levels.

What Ike didn't warn us about is the industrial/food complex which has brought us:
1) resistant strains of deadly bacteria
2) hormone-drenched food
3) colony collapse disorder
4) disappearance of butterflies
5) a farm industry in thrall to giant chemical companies

[Danny]

YAY! Arab Spring II is back is better than even. I'm glad that the Egyptians got rid of the dictator. Democracy is coming with a Islamic style.

[Papasito]

Yes, we ignored Ike and it is driving the country to bankruptcy - and again it all started with Reagan amping up military spending beyond sustainable levels.

What Ike didn't warn us about is the industrial/food complex which has brought us:
1) resistant strains of deadly bacteria
2) hormone-drenched food
3) colony collapse disorder
4) disappearance of butterflies
5) a farm industry in thrall to giant chemical companies

Well, you are right. Unfortunately both political parties are bought and paid for to adhere to the agenda.

[rb336]

Very true. Unless the Dems stand Elizabeth Warren for President, I will vote for either the greens or the Justice party in '16

[oladub]

My comment was, " The US gives 2-3 times as much foreign aid to israel's enemies as it gives israel depending on which countries are considered Israel's enemies."

Really? Who is that? I know they give a pittance to the Palestinian Authority, also a bribe, but who else?

That's easy. The Muslim world is generally hostile to Israel. Confining it to just some of the Muslim countries included in the top 25 recipient nations receiving US foreign aid, Wikipedia provides the following for 2011"

Israel received $3B of US foreign aid.

Afghanistan $12.9B
Iraq $2.1B
Pakistan $1.7B
Egypt $1.4B
Jordan $.85B
Sudan $.53B
West Bank/Gaza $.46B

Limiting foreign aid to aid given to the top 25 recipient nations, Israel received $3B and its enemies received $19.9B in US foreign aid. I was being too conservative in my estimate. 19.9/3= This short list of Israel's enemies received 6.63x as much foreign aid as Israel.

It would be too logical to cut them all off, including Israel, even though it would be to Israel's benefit. This must instead be about handing out taxpayer money to award contracts to the likes of Lockheed.

[Papasito]

The Muslim Brotherhood is rattling it's head.
Some deaths now, with the Brotherhood saying they were innocently praying, not doing anything wrong and the Egyptian military came blazing in for no reason, killing them for no reason.
The Egyptian Military said they were defending the compound where the ousted President is being held.

The Egyptian Military is state of the art equipped and well respected.
The Muslim Brotherhood .. well, they are the Muslim Brotherhood.

The best thing to do is sit back, eat popcorn and watch and be thankful we are somewhat safe here in America.

The Freedom and Justice Party “calls on the great Egyptian people to rise up against those who want to steal their revolution with tanks and armored vehicles, even over the dead bodies of the people," it said in a statement.

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/wo...0,924195.story

The Muslim Brotherhood said on Monday that the chief of the armed forces wanted to drive Egypt to the same fate as Syriaafter at least 42 people were killed in a shooting in Cairo.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...8?feedType=RSS

[rb336]

The Muslim Brotherhood is rattling it's head.
Some deaths now, with the Brotherhood saying they were innocently praying, not doing anything wrong and the Egyptian military came blazing in for no reason, killing them for no reason.
The Egyptian Military said they were defending the compound where the ousted President is being held.

The Egyptian Military is state of the art equipped and well respected.
The Muslim Brotherhood .. well, they are the Muslim Brotherhood.

The best thing to do is sit back, eat popcorn and watch and be thankful we are somewhat safe here in America.

I think you are right about that. We have a history of things blowing up in our faces. The CIA overthrew an elected leader in Iran and relaced him with a nasty, nasty tyrant. Result? The Islamic Republic of Iran. We trained and armed anti-soviet troops in Afghanistan. Result? The Taliban AND Al Qaeda.

[JBMcB]

We trained and armed anti-soviet troops in Afghanistan. Result? The Taliban AND Al Qaeda.

Almost - Al Qaeda was started as a response to the US military presence in Saudi Arabia during Gulf War part 1. They were just based in Afghanistan - once it got too hot there they moved to Pakistan [[in the middle of a secure military neighborhood, no less.)

The middle east is a complete mess. You have tribal division within each country. You have the Sunni/Shia split. Moderate Muslims versus the more radical elements. You have the US, Russia, China and India trying to exert control over petrochemical pipelines. You have everyone beating up on Israel. You have Saudi Arabia and Iran fighting each other through various proxies.

I don't think we can just walk away, but these aid payments aren't getting us a whole lot in return, I think.

[rb336]

Almost - Al Qaeda was started as a response to the US military presence in Saudi Arabia during Gulf War part 1. They were just based in Afghanistan - once it got too hot there they moved to Pakistan [[in the middle of a secure military neighborhood, no less.)

Actually, it started in the late 80s, early 90s. Targeting the US started during Gulf War I. And Osama was trained by...US

[Papasito]

do you actually believe that this has MB finger prints.. if you have been following it in the openning days the MB stayed away... this may actually be part secular and part poor..part educated without employment...it may be an opportunity.. and yes if the MB starts to flex maybe they will get dished...

Right on Gibran. Those who are pushing the " Muslim Brotherhood will take over" story are the Israel right or wrong supporters. The freedom of 80 million Egyptians should not depend on what Israel's right wing government perceives is in Israel's best interest.

LOL
I looked back at this and laughed. Funny how the "MB" ended up in power, isn't it?

Gibran, I know you're a good guy and have a good heart and good optimism for the region and it's turmoil, but the best thing we can do as a nation is stay the hell out of that region. Getting involved there sucks our country into war we can never end.


And Remember how Obama embraced this "Arab Spring" and even funded it?

2/13/2012

The White House announced plans on Monday to help "Arab Spring" countries swept by revolutions with more than $800 million in economic aid, while maintaining U.S. military aid to Egypt.
...
The Middle East and North Africa Incentive fund "will provide incentives for long-term economic, political, and trade reforms to countries in transition -- and to countries prepared to make reforms proactively," the White House budget document said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...81C1C920120213

Nice Job, Mr. President! Incentive $$$ for creating revolutions! Lovely!
Syria and Egypt are doing just great thanks to your historic leadership.

5/28/2011

Obama Rallies G8 Partners To Support Arab Spring Democracies
President Barack Obama encouraged leaders of the world’s wealthiest nations to join him in supporting the emerging democracies in North Africa. Prior to the two-day G-8 meeting in Deauville, France, two key administration officials sent an open letter to their G-8 counterparts aimed at rallying support for Obama’s objective.

http://politic365.com/2011/05/28/oba...9-democracies/

8/14/2013

Egypt descended into a chaotic bloodbath – and another political crisis - Wednesday after security forces backed by bulldozers moved into opposition protest camps set up by supporters of ousted president Mohammed Morsi, sparking deadly violence.

At least 149 people were killed and 1,403 injured, the country’s health ministry said, but the toll looked certain to rise as unrest spread from Cairo to other parts of the country.

Eight leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood were arrested during the police operation and charged with inciting violence.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...rsi-camps?lite


Hray for the Arab Spring!!

[Papasito]

Muslim Brotherhood VS Egyptian Military

Egypt faced a new phase of uncertainty Thursday after the bloodiest day since its Arab Spring began, with more than 500 people killed and thousands injured as police smashed two protest camps of supporters of the deposed Islamist president.
http://news.msn.com/world/after-hund...ew-uncertainty

The Muslim Brotherhood claim that they were peacefully protesting and the Military rolled in and started killing them just to kill them.

The Military is claiming the MB is attacking Christian Churches and Police Stations, attacking people in their homes, inciting violence and provoking conflict.

Covered up gunmen opened fire at Mar Mina Church in Port Said’s al-Manakh very early Tuesday and got away, as reported by the state-run news agency MENA. No victim were stated.

Army and police squads got to the setting of the strike and efforts are being carried out to identify the criminals.

This being the 3rd of such attack in 24 hours; just yesterday, unidentified aggressors assaulted Port Said’s western side port and the district’s traffic police division.

A priest was shot dead on Saturday in Masaeed in North Sinai.

http://nigeriana.org/blog/news/2013/07/10/muslim-brotherhood-gunmen-open-fire-on-christian-church.html/#.dpu

Four Coptic Christians have been killed in the Luxor area since Morsi’s ouster, and churches have been destroyed, including one recently in a village near the central Egyptian city of Minya, according to the BBC.

A Coptic Christian man was decapitated last week after being kidnapped in the Sinai Peninsula, and a Coptic priest was shot to death in the same region a week earlier, Middle East Onlinereported.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/07/19...morsis-ouster/

Egypt is currently in deep crisis because militants within the Muslim Brotherhood and various Islamist groups were well prepared to attack police officers, Christians, security forces, and others that they deem to be a threat to their violent tendencies. It is clear that the events of the last 24 hours, just like the increase of terrorist attacks against the Egyptian army since President Morsi was forced from office, was well coordinated.

Alongside this, many Western media outlets desire to twist the reality on the ground by not providing the full picture.This in itself highlights that the Obama administration is unhappy about the Muslim Brotherhood being forced out of office. After all, the Obama administration favors the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, Syria and Tunisia [[Ennahda is an offshoot).

http://moderntokyotimes.com/2013/08/...burn-churches/

The protesters on Friday attacked the Talbiya Police Station in Giza, located in the west bank of the Nile and about 20 km southwest of central Cairo, the Egyptian daily al-Ahramreported.

Police used tear gas to disperse the angry protesters who were calling for the reinstatement of Morsi, who was unseated on July 3.

The attack came as Muslim Brotherhood supporters took to the streets across the African country after Friday Prayers as part of the “Day of Rejection” demonstrations to denounce the military coup that removed Morsi from power.

The main anti-Morsi coalition called on “all Egyptians to mobilize in Egypt's squares” in order to “protect the June 30 Revolution.”

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/07...olice-station/

Yes Ma'am. US out of the Middle East.
They will be fighting over there until the end of time,
We have our own problems to fix right here at home.

[Papasito]

Here is a 116 photo slideshow capturing some of the violence going on in Egypt, courtesy of NBC news.

Note: some of the photos are graphic
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/52363683/d...7?beginSlide=1

If you take the time to do some research on this situation, look at photos and take a non-political approach to it, you will see that there is violence occurring on BOTH sides. There is plenty of evidence to prove that the Muslim Brotherhood/Morsi supporters are attacking police stations and civilians, civilians who are anti-Morsi and anti-MB, public works [[ie Firefighters, Police stations, Government buildings, ect.), and the Military is the only force who can oppose this, so what happens? people die.

Obama's statement today paints the Egyptian Military as though they are slaughtering civilians with no just cause:

President Barack Obama strongly condemned Egypt’s interim government Thursday, saying the United States was canceling a planned joint military operation in protest over violent clashes that left at least 638 dead.

Obama called on Egypt’s interim government, which took power after the July 3 military ouster of elected president Mohammed Morsi, to cancel a month-long state of emergency imposed after Wednesday's bloodshed.

"We deplore violence against civilians," he [[Obama) told reporters in Martha's Vineyard, where he is on a working vacation.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/egypt

Really?

Violence is happening on both sides, Mr. President.

There are a LOT of dead cops, firefighters and military personnel. Dead civilians on BOTH sides.

Only the underinformed will buy this perspective that the Egyptian Military is on a bloody rampage, killing for no reason. Unfortunately, there are a LOT of underinformed.

This could be a powder keg, especially under our country's current leadership.

[Jimaz]

DetroitYES Home » Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » Egypt - who is to blame?

[Jimaz]

DetroitYES Home » Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » Egypt Aid: Welfare for Defense Contractors!

[Papasito]

Listening to NPR this morning, they are spinning the news to make it appear the Military is firing on unarmed helpless defenseless pro Morsi demonstrators. Even worse, they are setting up the case that the US should get involved.

[noise]

Listening to NPR this morning, they are spinning the news to make it appear the Military is firing on unarmed helpless defenseless pro Morsi demonstrators. Even worse, they are setting up the case that the US should get involved.

What an odd interpretation of NPR's reporting. I listened as well and did not have the same takeaway at all.

[rb336]

Neither did I

[Papasito]

It depends on the show. I heard an interview [[yesterday) with a writer who works at the history library in Cairo and he said that the Muslim Brotherhood was antagonizing violence and inciting division in an effort to kick start a full Civil War.

I heard a news report today when on my way to work giving the impression the Military was slaughtering people for no reason.

Then I check out the news and I see this:

"The United States strongly condemns the steps that have been taken by Egypt's interim government and security forces," President Barack Obama said. "We deplore violence against civilians. We support universal rights essential to human dignity, including the right to peaceful protest."

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?id=9208449

Obama canceled exercises with the Egyptian military and encouraged the country's leaders to restore the democratic process, protect peaceful demonstrators and refrain from victimizing minorities.Obama's message boils down to "we're just sitting by and watching," said Michael Doran, who served as a deputy assistant secretary of Defense and a senior director at the National Security Council under President George W. Bush.

Instead, Obama should jump into the Middle East fray and deal with regional issues that threaten U.S. interests and allies, Doran said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...ities/2662285/

Obama strongly condemned Egypt’s interim government, saying the United States was canceling a planned joint military operation in protest over bloody clashes that left at least 638 dead and thousands injured.

Responding to Obama's statements, Egypt's presidency said in a statement the president's words were not based on "facts" and will strengthen and encourage violent groups.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...-exercise?lite

Apparantly Mr. President is siding with the MB



My take is both sides are at fault for the violence going on, but on the other hand, if rows of dead police bodies piled up in the United States and the police stations, churches and homes got overrun, the National Guard/US Military would come in to regain control, and there WOULD BE CASUALTIES.



The Police car must have pushed itself off the bridge...

[coracle]

We are particularly fortunate to have a Nobel Peace Prize winner conducting our foreign policy in North Africa. As long as we support all sides, keep giving them money and not offend anyone, what can possibly go wrong?

[Bobl]

Ironic, that in the christian imposed dark age, science, art, and mathematics was kept alive by those of the islamic faith.
Today, many of those of the islamic faith are doing their best to begin a new dark age.
I think Henry Ford had it right, when he said: "All religion is bunk".

[Zacha341]

Alot in a way as it is obvious our hands are tied in the area of foreign relations. That was the purpose.

We are particularly fortunate to have a Nobel Peace Prize winner conducting our foreign policy in North Africa. As long as we support all sides, keep giving them money and not offend anyone, what can possibly go wrong?

[rb336]

Ironic, that in the christian imposed dark age, science, art, and mathematics was kept alive by those of the islamic faith.
Today, many of those of the islamic faith are doing their best to begin a new dark age.
I think Henry Ford had it right, when he said: "All religion is bunk".

he would have been if he had said that, but he actually said "history is bunk", "history is more or less bunk" and "History is myth." I've seen the reiligion is bunk phrase before, but usually preceded by "to rework henry ford." His dear friend Edison, however did say about religion "It's all bunk." I think Edison Ford and Firestone sat around their campfire deciding what to call bunk

[Papasito]

44 churches attacked, burned, destroyed since last Wednesday.
The MB blaming Morsi's ousting on the Christians.
The MB is pushing for a full scale Civil War and a Holy War.
Police stations burned to the ground and policemen overrun and killed.

The military is doing it's best to keep the peace.

If the MB was peacefully protesting, more or less like the famous days of protest in Tahrir Square, it would be a completely different situation.

I hope the US does the right thing and stays out of this. It could become a regional conflict... a powder keg.

[rb336]

The MB pretty much declared open season on the Coptic Church as soon as the election was over, and they struck with near impunity. The vast majority of Egyptians - Muslim, Christian, whatever - were appalled by that and the increasing Islamification of the laws under the MB. That is what started the popular revolt that led to the coup

[Papasito]

Meanwhile in Syria...

Syria's opposition accused President Bashar al-Assad's forces of gassing many hundreds of people - by one report as many as 1,300 - on Wednesday in what would, if confirmed, be the world's worst chemical weapons attack in decades.Western and regional countries called for U.N. chemical weapons investigators - who arrived in Damascus just three days ago - to be urgently dispatched to the scene of one of the deadliest incidents of the two-year-old civil war.

Russia, too, urged an "objective" investigation but Assad's biggest foreign ally also heaped skepticism on his enemies' claims. A foreign ministry spokesman in Moscow said the release of gas after U.N. inspectors arrived suggested that it was a rebel "provocation" to discredit Syria's government.

Images, including some by freelance photographers supplied to Reuters, showed scores of bodies including of small children, laid on the floor of a clinic with no visible signs of injuries.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...97K0EL20130821

Considering the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Queda and other religious radicals are now a significant part of the Syrian rebellion, any US interference is not in our best interests.

IMO it's best for NATO allies in the area to intervene for once.
American taxpayers and citizen soldiers have payed the price for saving other countries for far too long while our own nation is crumbling around us.