Cairo, Eqypt - Riots Chaos Protests

**Danny** · February-03-11, 11:57 AM

The protesters in Egypt blamed on Mubarrak's goofy and corrupt political leaders. It started with the killing a Egyptian blogger murder that could be a ploy for Mubarrak's goon squad. That made him a martyr and the outcry of millions of Egyptians and the diaspora to have Mubarrak and the government removed from power. Mubarrak is leaving and the all of Egypt is in turmoil. Can a civil war happen? We shall see.

WORD FOR THE STREET PROPHET

Neda, fought against the Iranian Supreme Leader Khomeni and lost her life. I miss her so.

**maxx** · February-03-11, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I hope the unrest doesn't spread to Jordan. That country has been as "unoppressive" as possible in the Middle East... even though it is a Kingdom.

..

King Abdullah is already doing damage control.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

**jiminnm** · February-03-11, 02:27 PM

I expect that food prices and economics in general may have been a, if not the, major spark for these riots. Wheat prices have nearly doubled in the last 2 years, and Egypt is the world's largest wheat importer. Corn prices are up about 60% in the last year [[and last I checked about 40% of US corn production was going into ethanol). I read somewhere that the average Egyptians were having to spend 40+% of their income for food.

**Gistok** · February-03-11, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Steve

People in the Middle East are no less capable of being unoppressive than people anywhere else.

That's nice... no one said they weren't.....

DetroitDad · February-03-11, 06:27 PM

There are going to be some economies in free fall from all this, along with some affect on oil prices, especially if The Suez Canal is disrupted. Cross post this to Suburbs are Unsustainable? No, lets not jump the gun.

**Relayer76** · February-03-11, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by gibran

do you actually believe that this has MB finger prints.. if you have been following it in the openning days the MB stayed away... this may actually be part secular and part poor..part educated without employment.... I hope it leads to moderates and peace.. hopefully others will exercise freedom and then force a peace in the ME for all people.

Right on Gibran. Those who are pushing the " Muslim Brotherhood will take over" story are the Israel right or wrong supporters. The freedom of 80 million Egyptians should not depend on what Israel's right wing government perceives is in Israel's best interest.

**maxx** · February-03-11, 07:01 PM

Zbiggie was on CNN saying that the U.S. wants democracy in Egypt. Guess what, Zbiggie? I want democracy right here in the U.S. instead of the plutocracy we're getting.

**Gistok** · February-03-11, 09:50 PM

Well this is an interesting thread.... no leftie/rightie bickering crap...

We're all here as observers on the sideline, seeing what the future will bring... in some Middle East/North African countries this may end up like Tienamen Square... but hopefully it will end up more like the Brandenburg Gate....

It would be nice to see this wave of "we the people" cause regime changes in Syria...

In Iran it's sort of the reverse... the intelligensia and middle class are against the regime, and many of the poor are for the regime.

**mjs** · February-04-11, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by barnesfoto

It seems that while the cultists whip up imaginary islamophobic nonsense about the, er, freedom fighters, Anderson Cooper has been beaten by Pro-government thugs.
Such ingratitude, after the millions and millions of our tax dollars that have gone to shore up this corrupt dictatorship.

So let's see, the conservocrites supported a "failed big government program" i.e. a stupid, expensive, failed war, to create democracy in Eye-Raq at the point of a gun, and eight years later it is still not working.

Meanwhile, in Egypt, without the slightest bit of help from US taxpayers [[but with the help of the "free-market" ideas that drove up food costs in most of the world, but not in the US) a dictatorship is about to fall, and a guy who comes off as a "liberal" is emerging as the leader of the revolution.
Rock on, Mohamed ElBaradei.

Little politically frothed up are we? Even the politicians aren't claiming a political slant to this. Here's the top ten reasons why it doesn't make sense to go off on the republicans this time.

1) All the reputable papers say that the vast majority of the republicans, including their leaders, are not challenging the President on his handling of this.

2) Its inaccurate to say the US had no hand in spreading the idea of democracy to the region. Obama actually called for greater democracy during the speech he gave there in the fall and I keep thinking over and over how Bush said that democracy in Iraq would spread to the rest of the region. Since trying for that democracy, one dictatorship has fallen to democracy, another seems ready to topple, and now a third one has began taking root. The fear is that it will even spread to the Saudi's.

3) The military response to this has been key and the $1.5 billion we've provided them every year for the last 30 plus years is giving Obama influence over them. So, it sounds like the US taxpayer has already given about $50 billion to have influence in this situation.

4) The protesters would never call the Egyptian economy a free market economy. Its alot of why they are protesting. I'll take their perspective over yours.

5) Egypt was a poor nation long before the recession or food price increases.

6) All the papers I've read say food prices have risen dramatically in the US.

7) I assume since you think our food pricing needs to be more in line with the rest of the world, you support tea party calls to finally reduce our enormous food subsidies.

8) The dictator you speak of is supported with $1.5 billion every year in military aid from the US because a democratic president promised it to them.

9) It was a democratic president that made that so called democracy possible.

10) ElBaradei is a liberal in the context of middle eastern government officials, not US politics. I've heard no republican opposition to him.

**mjs** · February-04-11, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

Neda, fought against the Iranian Supreme Leader Khomeni and lost her life. I miss her so.

Isn't this what she was fighting for? Wouldn't she be happy with the recent news?

**Gistok** · February-04-11, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Well this is an interesting thread.... no leftie/rightie bickering crap...

..... maybe I spoke too soon... or didn't read ALL the posts....

**mjs** · February-04-11, 12:54 AM

I didn't mean to make it sound anti-democrat either. I can make just as convincing of an argument that it doesn't make sense to go off on the democrats starting again with even the politicians aren't claiming a political slant to this. The fact that even DC folks can agree on this should cause you to want to add a

.

**barnesfoto** · February-04-11, 08:40 AM

Little politically frothed up are we?

Um, yeah, our country is going to be paying for the Iraq fiasco for decades. Since so-called conservatives like to blather about "responsibility" I keep waiting to hear someone step forward and apologize to the taxpayers and to the families of those killed and maimed in the ongoing debacle.

First Rove, then Bush, and now Rumsfeld have recently published books. Whatta surprise, no apologies, [[although Rummy points the blame finger at his fellow war criminals).
I realize that the folks who were so gung ho about "Operation Iraqi Freedom" eight years ago don't want to discuss their failed policies, but I can't help compare how inspiring it is to see a regime toppled organically, rather than by a group of idiots in Washington DC sending in CIA/Guns [[See Afghanistan, early 80's) or US Military [[See Afghanistan, Iraq early 21st century). [[See also, Iran 1954, Guatemala, 1954, etc. etc.)

I'm glad that I'm not the only person who noticed that food prices are up dramatically in most of the world, and that food prices played a role in this series of revolts [[see also, Tunisia, Yemen) so we can agree that people will put up with a lot until you start messing with their stomachs.

**oladub** · February-04-11, 10:09 AM

barnesfoto: "Um, yeah, our country is going to be paying for the Iraq fiasco for decades. Since so-called conservatives like to blather about "responsibility" I keep waiting to hear someone step forward and apologize to the taxpayers and to the families of those killed and maimed in the ongoing debacle."

This isn't actually an apology but it is a fiscal conservative/libertarian criticizing neocons and Democrats for some of the events in Egypt. His solution includes stopping all foreign aid to that region including Israel. Rand Paul has suggested the same in the Senate and been met with huge attacks for not excluding Israel. Obama , for his part, voted for sustaining the Iraq War under Bush. As President, he has doubled our troop strength in Afghanistan, dropped bombs in Yemen, bombed villages in Pakistan, and continued to fund the militaries of both Israel and it's Arab neighbors. These policies make no sense. Has he even stopped US torture? I don't hear Democrats stepping forward and apologizing to the taxpayers and to the families of those killed and maimed in the ongoing debacle either.
Ron Paul on Egyptian chaos: 'We're responsible for a lot of the mess that is over there'

**maxx** · February-04-11, 11:05 AM

So we should just walk away from the base the Bushies built in Iraq without trying to establish order after destroying the gov. and infrastructure? The Middle East has been a bees nest for decades, and Cheney and Bush thought they could kick it and there would be no repercussions. The Iraqis were going to greet us with flowers, remember? We should have been more concerned with Pakistan, but Iraq was easier, they thought, and there was all that oil as the prize.
Why apologize to soldiers who volunteered? Are they so naive that their families and they think that they wouldn't get hurt or killed when invading another country? The number of people living in denial in this country is mind-boggling.

**gibran** · February-04-11, 12:04 PM

there is a great article on Huffington Posts on this subject...when are we going to learn to be a balanced broker will bring Peace to Israel and Palestine...that would stabilize the region . The other aspect is the futures market manipulation by wall street and Goldman Sacs/// this is going to blow when it is diretcly responsible for food for these poor.. dictators must go..free the Middle-east from oppression..and you will see another potential market for our goods that would drive our econonmy.. stay as enemies and we will keep borrowing from China to prompt wall street and the bankers up..

**oladub** · February-04-11, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by maxx

So we should just walk away from the base the Bushies built in Iraq without trying to establish order after destroying the gov. and infrastructure? The Middle East has been a bees nest for decades, and Cheney and Bush thought they could kick it and there would be no repercussions. The Iraqis were going to greet us with flowers, remember? We should have been more concerned with Pakistan, but Iraq was easier, they thought, and there was all that oil as the prize.

The Iraqi parliament voted ordered the US out of Iraq by the end of 2011. The US government was told that a couple of years ago. That certainly provides enough cover for the US to do just that with, or without, a declaration of war. This thread is about Egypt but yes we should stop participating in behavior which is not authorized by the Constitution whether it is fighting undeclared wars or subsidizing dictators with foreign aid. An alternative would be to declare war on Iraq, Afghanistan, or whomever Congress wants to drop bombs on. If Congress doesn't want to do that, we should pull out with or without the mandates of host countries.

**gibran** · February-04-11, 03:39 PM

stop foreign aid to any country that doesnt support the rights of all citizens equally ...period. we can use those billions here hiring teachers and other support personal... time to stop lying to the public and having lobbies make our policies.

**Detroitnerd** · February-04-11, 04:59 PM

So the government hired thugs and criminals to throw rocks, incite a riot, throw molotovs and fire into the crowd? They didn't go berserk and kill anybody. They captured the agents provocateur, found out who had hired them. Apparently, the crowd even put out the fires, which endangered the museum. These street protesters are a class act over there. Their government deserves to be run out on a rail, right now.

I was particularly incensed to hear Mubarak pal and Israeli lawmaker Binyamin Ben-Eliezer say: "I don't think the Americans understand yet the disaster they have pushed the Middle East into."

**maxx** · February-05-11, 05:08 PM

When banks are manipulating food prices, how long before we feel it?
http://www.truth-out.org/the-egyptia...ird-world67424
"..The history of food took an ominous turn in 1991, at a time when no one was paying much attention. That was the year Goldman Sachs decided our daily bread might make an excellent investment.... Robber barons, gold bugs, and financiers of every stripe had long dreamed of controlling all of something everybody needed or desired, then holding back the supply as demand drove up prices...
Kaufman suggests a worldwide or national grain reserve, so that regulators can bring wheat into the market when needed to stabilize prices. He notes that we actually kept a large grain reserve in the Clinton era, before the mania for deregulation..."

SO the Republicans are starving people.

**gibran** · February-05-11, 08:17 PM

yes then it would spread and for all including the Palestinians then it would become a empoerment zone like no other.. could you imagine that market for our goods?

**gibran** · February-05-11, 08:32 PM

[I was particularly incensed to hear Mubarak pal and Israeli lawmaker Binyamin Ben-Eliezer say: "I don't think the Americans understand yet the disaster they have pushed the Middle East into."[/QUOTE]

wow we now dont understand that this middle-east is soley on us.. way to stand by your friends..

**maxx** · February-06-11, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by gibran

[I was particularly incensed to hear Mubarak pal and Israeli lawmaker Binyamin Ben-Eliezer say: "I don't think the Americans understand yet the disaster they have pushed the Middle East into."

gibran: wow we now dont understand that this middle-east is soley on us.. way to stand by your friends..

Well, if American banks are manipulating commodities prices causing price rises around the world leading to uprisings, then, yes, it is on us.

**barnesfoto** · February-06-11, 06:36 AM

I don't hear Democrats stepping forward and apologizing to the taxpayers and to the families of those killed and maimed in the ongoing debacle either.

In my line of work, the people who came up with an idea get credit for it.
Who proposed the Eye-Raq invasion? Who played the endless soundbite of mentioning eye-raq and 9/11 in the same sentence over and over again?

Let the intellectual authors of not one but two ridiculous wars be the first to apologize. If the families of the US military killed in this fiasco don't deserve an apology, certainly the families of Iraqi civilians killed do. Not one Iraqi citizen was involved in 9/11.

gdogslim · February-06-11, 06:41 AM

I wonder how George Soros is manipulating these currencies now. He must be having a field day.
What banks are manipulating?
Obama knew about all of this, the U.S. helped to foment the unrest.
According a secret WikiLeaks cable, the US Embassy in Cairo provided assistance for an Egyptian activist to attend a 2008 conference in New York. When he returned, he told US Ambassador Margaret Scobey that dissidents had created a plan to enact pro-democracy 'regime change' before the elections in September of this year. Other US diplomats, after learning of the plan, reportedly offered their support to the activist, whose identity is being kept secret and is now being detained by Egyptian authorities. The Telegraph:The memo, which Ambassador Scobey sent to the US Secretary of State in Washington DC, was marked “confidential” and headed: “April 6 activist on his US visit and regime change in Egypt.”