Someone please shoot me [Detroit thread on the Huffington Post]

[LeannaM]

It's called the internet. The comments on anything when attached to a newspaper site are just downright nasty, regardless of the subject.

Any time the St. Louis Post-Dispatch has an article about St. Louis City, either positive or negative, you end up with a bunch of suburbanites complaining about how awful the city is.

Same goes for political articles. You have Republicans complaining about Democrats and vise versa.

The internet tends to bring out the people who are most extreme.

[fubarnation]

Seems there's a difference between mentioning racial/ethnic polarity [[Bartock's post) and actually playing the 'card'.

If you can't read between the lines, you know the rest.

[fubarnation]

I guess theoretically you are right, but in practice you are so, so wrong... LOL.

I'm just curious what makes you think a disproportionate amount of state tax dollars ends up in the city? Is that just an assumption or is there some study that you have seen. I would assume if we are talking about per capita funding, rural areas would probably get the "most" funding, though I don't have any data to back that up...

It would be great if that were the case, but last time I checked posting comments on a newspaper website isn't going to change anything...

No I am not wrong and your wishy-washy response does not refute it.

"Since 1996, Lansing and Washington have chipped in, on average, $1.34 for every $1 in income tax and property tax city residents and nonresident workers pay. That's more in state and federal support than any other big American city gets."

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20070407/...#ixzz1CJ4lMcfB



Pretending the problem doesn't exist won't change anything either. Hopefully people reading the comments will research, and scream at their reps to do something about it. If you pay taxes, you have that right and spreading the word by any means necessary can't hurt.

[hudkina]

So you think slamming a city, will get people to do something? Really? Here's an idea! If it's that big of a deal, why not volunteer? Why not do something to actively change things? Mentor a student. Volunteer at a shelter. Help clean up litter in a park. There are countless ways to constructively change the status quo, but attacking the city from a suburban outpost isn't one of them...

Also, as far as taxes, I was referring to per capita spending at the state level, which is not the data that you've provided.

[bartock]

What you define as bashing, others would call complaining. Even if it is accurately considered bashing, most of the bashers have earned the right via their tax dollars donated to Detroit at the expense of their own communities. It is fair to say that Detroit does not earn its keep in the scheme of things.

As far as your opinion about the school system, please don't attempt to compare that POS known as DPS to anything else in the state. Thousands of future's have been stolen by the DPS administration. Everyone in the state knows how bad Detroit schools are run and we all pay for it. The damage that has been done is monumental.

Whipping out the race card [[referring to other posts) just enables the wrong doers. Wrong is wrong, regardless of race. Does anyone really want what's going on there to continue on it's current course?

I wrote that the racism on those boards comes from all sides from a couple of loonies. In context, it was actually a response to what I took as a suggestion that it was suburban only. Not sure how that makes me an enabler, as I agree that wrong is wrong. Perhaps my points were manipulated in order to fit into a rant about something else entirely.

[Proslack]

Please give some examples.

Just because someone comments on Detroit in a negative fashion doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about. You don't have to live there to know what's going on. What's reported in the papers and on TV is usually pretty accurate. Usually one trip into town will show you what 30 plus years of governmental incompetence and neglect will do to a once great city.

Anyone in Michigan who pays taxes has an investment in the city of Detroit whether they like it or not. The city is not self sustaining. Therefore, they have a right and really, an obligation to complain when their money is being wasted.

If any of you can make a case for Detroit as a fiscally responsible, well run, low crime place where K-12 education is the best available and city services a second to none, I for one, would like to see it.

you do have a pretty good point that Detroit is not self sustaining and probably never will be. Everyone in Michigan pays taxes that go to the city of Detroit and therefore has a right to say whatever they feel [[as long as it's true). Everyone that works in this fair city, whether they live here or not, also pay taxes in the city of Detroit. They can voice their thought openly and freely along side anyone that lives here. Stop taking everyones money, then you have a right to tell people stop talking about Detroit.

[lilpup]

"Since 1996, Lansing and Washington have chipped in, on average, $1.34 for every $1 in income tax and property tax city residents and nonresident workers pay. That's more in state and federal support than any other big American city gets."

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20070407/...#ixzz1CJ4lMcfB

Overall this is an incorrect analysis, so the validity of that number is questionable. Michigan is a donor state so Washington doesn't chip in a cent to anything or any place here.

[fubarnation]

You guys win.

I am now convinced that when someone makes the case that outsiders complaining about Detroit are just engaging in mindless bashing and racism is never inferred by the accuser.

Detroit is a well run city that should not be critiqued. Any problem Detroit has is caused by white flight and the car companies crashing. For the past 30 plus years, the leadership of Detroit has done its level best to provide the best school system, public services and to attract new business to employ its citizens.

Yep, we sure do get value for our tax dollar when we invest it in Detroit.

Que the Twilight Zone theme.

[Crumbled_pavement]

You guys win.

I am now convinced that when someone makes the case that outsiders complaining about Detroit are just engaging in mindless bashing and racism is never inferred by the accuser.

Detroit is a well run city that should not be critiqued. Any problem Detroit has is caused by white flight and the car companies crashing. For the past 30 plus years, the leadership of Detroit has done its level best to provide the best school system, public services and to attract new business to employ its citizens.

Yep, we sure do get value for our tax dollar when we invest it in Detroit.

Que the Twilight Zone theme.

Here's a perfect example of why I don't debate people like this. To them there is black and white, there's no gray, blue, or orange. Everything is either this or it's that. They must fit everything into one box or the other box. You either love Detroit with all your heart and see not a flaw in the world in her, or you hate her because she is the most failed city ever in the history of mankind. In fubarnation's eyes, there is no other way you can see the city. Although, I'm still trying to figure out where someone accused anyone of racism besides fubarnation's posts. Seems he's really telling us something about himself.

People like fubarnation must assign blame to one group and one group only, in this case that group would be Detroiters. It's not possible in his mind that more than one group of people could contribute to a problem. Two people can't be wrong. If one person is wrong, the other person is automatically right. However, based on his own argument, exactly what defines Detroiters? Today's Detroiters, people that once were Detroit residents, all of the above? It's senseless to debate close minded people.

[Rolfsy]

If you can't read between the lines, you know the rest.

Oh! I get it. It is literally like a card game, first person to say the word 'race' loses a turn.

[fubarnation]

Here's a perfect example of why I don't debate people like this. To them there is black and white, there's no gray, blue, or orange. Everything is either this or it's that. They must fit everything into one box or the other box. You either love Detroit with all your heart and see not a flaw in the world in her, or you hate her because she is the most failed city ever in the history of mankind. In fubarnation's eyes, there is no other way you can see the city. Although, I'm still trying to figure out where someone accused anyone of racism besides fubarnation's posts. Seems he's really telling us something about himself.

People like fubarnation must assign blame to one group and one group only, in this case that group would be Detroiters. It's not possible in his mind that more than one group of people could contribute to a problem. Two people can't be wrong. If one person is wrong, the other person is automatically right. However, based on his own argument, exactly what defines Detroiters? Today's Detroiters, people that once were Detroit residents, all of the above? It's senseless to debate close minded people.

You're bouncing around all over the place with this post. This indicates to me you don't take the time to digest or understand anything I have said. You have preconceived notions you rely on to try and browbeat me into submission. Failing that, you come up with a rambling post attacking the messenger.

Most of the country views the city of Detroit as a joke. Late night talk guys laugh at Detroit on national TV when they need an easy laugh. The jokes, unfortunately, reflect the reality that is Detroit. People that invest in this joke are not happy with the return on their money. They have a right and an obligation to see things improved by any means necessary. BAMN!!!!

The fact you cannot relate certain phrases expressed here as substitutes for "racists" makes me wonder how long you have lived around here. Bartock picked up on it, why can't you?

If I tell you the sun is going to rise in the east tomorrow morning, do you believe it will happen or must I provide proof with several examples? If I tell you Detroit is not run well, do I have to provide proof and tip toe around the fact that race may be a contributing factor?

You can ignore the obvious all you want, it doesn't change the reality.

[Crumbled_pavement]

They have a right and an obligation to see things improved by any means necessary. BAMN!!!!

Some of the worst offenders in history thought just like this too, by ANY means necessary. Not most effective, just any method that suits their means to an end.

You can ignore the obvious all you want, it doesn't change the reality.

Who is ignoring reality? PLEASE, AND I DO MEAN P L E A S E ... quote for me just who in this thread said Detroit was well run, had A+ schools, and gives the best return on investment. I missed that post along with the one blaming racism for all of Detroit's problems.

Oh! I get it. It is literally like a card game, first person to say the word 'race' loses a turn.

[fubarnation]

Some of the worst offenders in history thought just like this too, by ANY means necessary. Not most effective, just any method that suits their means to an end.


Who is ignoring reality? PLEASE, AND I DO MEAN P L E A S E ... quote for me just who in this thread said Detroit was well run, had A+ schools, and gives the best return on investment. I missed that post along with the one blaming racism for all of Detroit's problems.

Who was it that said the following, "Here's a perfect example of why I don't debate people like this."?

Be true to your word and drop it.

[hudkina]

Dude. Everyone here knows that much of the city has gone to shit in the last 50 years. Nobody would argue that! The point is that since everyone knows how mismanaged the city is, what the hell is the point of being a loud-mouthed Suburban Captain Obvious? Just because I don't post a bitchy response on a news article doesn't mean I think the city is without serious problems. I understand that complaining doesn't get me anywhere. I understand that if I am truly concerned for Detroit, then I should do something far more constructive than bitching about a shitty city to make myself feel better. Why is it so hard for you to understand that concept?

[fubarnation]

Dude. Everyone here knows that much of the city has gone to shit in the last 50 years. Nobody would argue that! The point is that since everyone knows how mismanaged the city is, what the hell is the point of being a loud-mouthed Suburban Captain Obvious? Just because I don't post a bitchy response on a news article doesn't mean I think the city is without serious problems. I understand that complaining doesn't get me anywhere. I understand that if I am truly concerned for Detroit, then I should do something far more constructive than bitching about a shitty city to make myself feel better. Why is it so hard for you to understand that concept?

Actually, the pavement guy was trying to argue just that.

Tell me what you do. All I have heard so far is lectures. I am interested in all kinds of wonderful stories you have about how you rolled up your sleeves and helped make Detroit a better place. Tell me the appreciation you got from the people you helped. Where did you make a positive difference?

Last summer, I spent a considerable amount of money bar hopping and urban exploring via motorcycle. Midtown, Rivertown, Grand Blvd, WSU area [[one bright spot), Corktown, Downtown, Boston Edison, Delray and several places I probably should not have been. By doing so, I helped keep people employed wherever I stopped letting someone earn my money in exchange for their services and goods.

As I pointed out, Detroit gets a lot of outside help that is wasted. I don't just write about it here. I inform my representatives how disgusted I am with the mess I read about and have seen first hand. I am not getting a good return on my investment. Making sure the mayor has an Escalade and about 20 guards is a crock considering the budget problems the city faces. Oh and DPS wants us to forgive how much debt? My school system could use that money but, according to many of the posters, I should not complain when they have how many hundreds of ghost employees being paid?

This town is a boat anchor on the state's economy. The sub 25% graduation rate at DPS makes Detroit a very unattractive place to do business. Keep quiet about it. Demand nothing be done about. Shhhhh, don't talk to anyone or you might incur their wrath. PC is the rule of the day.

If I understand you correctly, criticism of Detroit is not fit for this venue. I disagree. Also, when I am attacked, I will respond. You just keep feeding the fire. Well done.

[Mr. Houdini]

How about a link to the HuffPo article in question?

[Johnlodge]

Tell me what you do. All I have heard so far is lectures. I am interested in all kinds of wonderful stories you have about how you rolled up your sleeves and helped make Detroit a better place. Tell me the appreciation you got from the people you helped. Where did you make a positive difference?

Last summer, I spent a considerable amount of money bar hopping and urban exploring via motorcycle. Midtown, Rivertown, Grand Blvd, WSU area [[one bright spot), Corktown, Downtown, Boston Edison, Delray and several places I probably should not have been. By doing so, I helped keep people employed wherever I stopped letting someone earn my money in exchange for their services and goods.

Wow, you drank at some bars, here's a pat on the back. Here's a tip: quite a few people on here actually do quite a bit of rolling up their sleeves and working to make Detroit a better place. In fact, get this, quite a few of them actually live there and work there and still find time to volunteer to help make it a better place. Since your first post was on this thread yesterday, maybe you should take some time to understand who you're talking to. You won't be impressing many with your gallant tales of stopping in bars on your motorcycle to help end unemployment.

when I am attacked, I will respond. You just keep feeding the fire. Well done.

Oh noes! The horrors!

[fubarnation]

Wow, you drank at some bars, here's a pat on the back. Here's a tip: quite a few people on here actually do quite a bit of rolling up their sleeves and working to make Detroit a better place. In fact, get this, quite a few of them actually live there and work there and still find time to volunteer to help make it a better place. Since your first post was on this thread yesterday, maybe you should take some time to understand who you're talking to. You won't be impressing many with your gallant tales of stopping in bars on your motorcycle to help end unemployment.



Oh noes! The horrors!

That's swell John. So far, I am the only one that's offered specifics and the people I paid and tipped seem to appreciate it. Those people pay taxes and the owners of the establishments pay taxes. Detroit needs a whole lot more of that.

All I have witnessed here is billows of hot air and indignation. Just saying nice things about Detroit doesn't feed the coffers.

My wife did some volunteer work in her capacity as a RN a few years ago for a place in Detroit that was trying to help people with AIDS. One of the regulars there made it known right off the bat that she didn't care much for the white lady from the burbs. About 3 visits later and my wife was convinced her efforts were not appreciated. I told her not to go but she had to find out for herself. Detroit and Detroiters are not exactly known for appreciating anything anyone does for them.

Don't be bashful people. I am genuinely interested in your exploits in making a positive impact on Detroit. Spending money there and helping the economy doesn't count I guess.

Anybody pick up a gum wrapper off the street today within the city limits? Lay it on me.

Note to the people bitching about my bitching, if you want me to stop, quit replying. It is that simple.

[hudkina]

quit replying. It is that simple.

LOL. That's what I've said from the beginning. BTW, go back and reread this thread. Count the number of times anyone has said anything even remotely flattering about the city. As far as I see, not one person has said "nice things about Detroit" in this thread. In fact, nobody has said we can't discuss the things that are wrong or that need to be changed. The problem is that the vast majority of people who do reply to Freep articles have no real desire to affect change. And has been said before, there is a HUGE difference between bashing the city and discussing ways to solve the problems the city faces...

[English]

Don't feed the trolls, folks. The kind of help that comes with strings attached, or any expectation of rear end kissing, is absolutely not needed because you cannot force people to appreciate what you've done. Anyone who has parented a child, or even been a teacher, mentor or coach knows that.

I'm always amused by posters like that. As if many people don't pay taxes, work hard, and serve their communities. Some of those hardworking good-citizen taxpayers actually live in Detroit. [[Gasp!) So I don't get why some people want a gold star -- or for Detroiters to kiss their rear end because they did something that gave THEM personal satisfaction and made THEM look morally superior to those ungrateful inner-city ingrates they can't stop talking about. I actually have more respect for those who refuse to ever leave the suburbs, stew about our awful city, and post about it on the Freep. At least they are morally consistent.

[erikd]

Here's a perfect example of why I don't debate people like this. To them there is black and white, there's no gray, blue, or orange. Everything is either this or it's that. They must fit everything into one box or the other box. You either love Detroit with all your heart and see not a flaw in the world in her, or you hate her because she is the most failed city ever in the history of mankind. In fubarnation's eyes, there is no other way you can see the city. Although, I'm still trying to figure out where someone accused anyone of racism besides fubarnation's posts. Seems he's really telling us something about himself.

People like fubarnation must assign blame to one group and one group only, in this case that group would be Detroiters. It's not possible in his mind that more than one group of people could contribute to a problem. Two people can't be wrong. If one person is wrong, the other person is automatically right. However, based on his own argument, exactly what defines Detroiters? Today's Detroiters, people that once were Detroit residents, all of the above? It's senseless to debate close minded people.

AWESOME POST!

I have been frustrated for years by mindless automatons posting ignorant dogma like this. I am going to copy this post and use it as a template to respond to morons and trolls.

Thank You!

[ja!mz]

Same with youtube. Want to listen to a Cat Stevens song? Surprise! You are now embroiled in a vitriolic battle on the nature of Islam.

thats why I use Rhapsody...allthe Cat Stevens albums are there with no commentary