The Suburban Movement

[cmubryan]

Hmmm....As a former Property Manager at a fairly well known apartment management company I oversaw an apartment community in Southfield from 2006 to 2010. I will say this, many of our new residents did move from Detroit but definitely not all. We however did not run a slumlord operation. We respected the residents and the residents, for the most part respected us back. The problems that we saw were outsiders causing problems [[mainly car break-ins or thefts) but definitely not what you are describing. We kept up the apartments, grounds and common areas and charged rents comparable to our sister communities in Canton, Farmington Hills and Harrison Twp. We had stricter qualifying criteria and took a no-nonsense approach with late rent, starting evicting proceedings almost immediately if rent was late. It worked well and the residents were happy. So it IS till possible to run and live in a decent community in Southfield. Oh and guess what? We took over a downtown Detroit highrise last year and the same type of thing started to happen. Set the expectation at the start, invest in the property, don't allow garbage to move in!

[cmubryan]

Hmmm....As a former Property Manager at a fairly well known apartment management company I oversaw an apartment community in Southfield from 2006 to 2010. I will say this, many of our new residents did move from Detroit but definitely not all. We however did not run a slumlord operation. We respected the residents and the residents, for the most part respected us back. The problems that we saw were outsiders causing problems [[mainly car break-ins or thefts) but definitely not what you are describing. We kept up the apartments, grounds and common areas and charged rents comparable to our sister communities in Canton, Farmington Hills and Harrison Twp. We had stricter qualifying criteria and took a no-nonsense approach with late rent, starting evicting proceedings almost immediately if rent was late. It worked well and the residents were happy. So it IS still possible to run and live in a decent community in Southfield. Oh and guess what? We took over a downtown Detroit highrise last year and the same type of thing started to happen. Set the expectation at the start, invest in the property, don't allow garbage to move in!

[BrushStart]

What the hell does the above have to do with someone wanting to live in a house with a huge yard, good schools and excellent police protection?

Get Detroit to have two out of three above and then you can try and get rid of the evil "sprawl" until that time I will stick with not having to lock my doors at night.

Sadly, I feel like you are the type that he/she is talking about. Nobody is trying to take away your huge yard, good schools, or police protection. We ARE actually trying to improve those things, but have come to the consensus that more sprawl is not the solution, or even feasible. As for you, live wherever the heck you want. If you happen to be one of the lucky ones who can afford to sell their home at a loss and buy a new Pulte model off a dirt road out in Ortonville, then by all means, do it. You ranting about "Detroit this" and "Detroit that" is worthless rhetoric.

[lincoln8740]

Hmmm....As a former Property Manager at a fairly well known apartment management company I oversaw an apartment community in Southfield from 2006 to 2010. I will say this, many of our new residents did move from Detroit but definitely not all. We however did not run a slumlord operation. We respected the residents and the residents, for the most part respected us back. The problems that we saw were outsiders causing problems [[mainly car break-ins or thefts) but definitely not what you are describing. We kept up the apartments, grounds and common areas and charged rents comparable to our sister communities in Canton, Farmington Hills and Harrison Twp. We had stricter qualifying criteria and took a no-nonsense approach with late rent, starting evicting proceedings almost immediately if rent was late. It worked well and the residents were happy. So it IS still possible to run and live in a decent community in Southfield. Oh and guess what? We took over a downtown Detroit highrise last year and the same type of thing started to happen. Set the expectation at the start, invest in the property, don't allow garbage to move in!

Big difference from market rate tenants compared to Section 8 tenants. Our market rate places are relatively quiet. Why? Because everyone works!!!!!

[lincoln8740]

Sadly, I feel like you are the type that he/she is talking about. Nobody is trying to take away your huge yard, good schools, or police protection. We ARE actually trying to improve those things, but have come to the consensus that more sprawl is not the solution, or even feasible. As for you, live wherever the heck you want. If you happen to be one of the lucky ones who can afford to sell their home at a loss and buy a new Pulte model off a dirt road out in Ortonville, then by all means, do it. You ranting about "Detroit this" and "Detroit that" is worthless rhetoric.

I was responding to this juicy line--"It's about time people acknowledge the failures of the suburban sprawl/ fleeing mentality and come up with solutions to the problems. Unfortunately for the region, most of the powers to be cater to the masses with the usual rhetoric of fear and hate, and of coarse, race baiting. "

Who is "ranting worthless rhetoric" again?

[BrushStart]

I was responding to this juicy line--"It's about time people acknowledge the failures of the suburban sprawl/ fleeing mentality and come up with solutions to the problems. Unfortunately for the region, most of the powers to be cater to the masses with the usual rhetoric of fear and hate, and of coarse, race baiting. "

Who is "ranting worthless rhetoric" again?

You need only look at the current situation to see that the poster is reporting the obvious fact of a failed strategy: Sprawl. You cannot endlessly run from problems, sometimes, you have to confront them. I get the sense that people keep running backwards from Detroit with their fingers pointing and their mouths screaming "fix it, fix it, fix it." That is not a solution. The people with the means need to help the people without the means for the betterment of the whole. I don't mean giving away entitlements to people who abuse them, I mean cooperating on issues that benefit more than just a handful of elites. Quit trying to quarantine poverty so that it isn't "your problem." Have some accountability and figure out what the cause of the poverty is and stop abandoning your homes because you're too self-absorbed to deal with it. Be a man, find an inner-city kid to mentor, volunteer as a youth counselor, help build a shelter for the mentally ill. That's what decent people do. They don't keep running away, and building new communities where only fewer and fewer can afford to escape to. You gotta build a better society, not just scream for one from a distance.

[fryar]

Welcome to Johnson's and the Democrats 'Great Society' effects.
Isn't it Great?

No way, dude! I say it's less filling!

[fryar]

My take on this is similar to BrushStart's in terms of the effect. This is all about SE Mich adding an additional ring of suburbs. I'm sure cmubryan can give you some good ideas to make lemonade out of these lemons, but if the plasma donor center and dollar store describe your environs, that's because of the sprawl and abandonment mindset.

[fryar]

I was responding to this juicy line--"It's about time people acknowledge the failures of the suburban sprawl/ fleeing mentality and come up with solutions to the problems. Unfortunately for the region, most of the powers to be cater to the masses with the usual rhetoric of fear and hate, and of coarse, race baiting. "

Who is "ranting worthless rhetoric" again?

But he's spot on. Not that this constitutes pragmatic advice for the OP, but the actual solution involves developing some nice walkable environs in the area, turning it into lesser Royal Oak, something the Oak Park powers that be at best declined to do. Prior to moving a few miles north, one might suppose - cynically, but in all seriousness.

[Scottathew]

The big issue is the divide between the haves and the have-nots. 50 years ago everyone with the ability to do so ran out of Detroit, leaving only the poor and black people who WEREN'T ALLOWED to move out due to red-lining and other forms of racism.

This left Detroit with mostly poor black people. And before anyone starts blaming black people please realize that white people got a 400+ year head start on prosperity in America. Blacks were forced to work and die for free as slaves, and then after slavery was abolished, they were forced to be second class citizens, that had to use second class schools, that had to ride in the back of the bus, couldn't hold jobs that whites had, couldn't be paid the same as whites, and weren't allowed to live in white neighborhoods.

I know we'd like to think that most of this is behind us now, but the simple fact is that slavery and discrimination have put blacks at a disadvantage because their families were not allowed to build and have wealth for many, many generations.

This isn't to say that the black culture doesn't need to change itself from it's ways of promiscuous sex starting in the early teens, mothers with multitudes of kids without the same father, let alone a father that actually parents, and the gangster-hip-hop culture that glorifies all the bad decisions that black youth could possibly make.

The good thing is that the fall of Detroit is the black flight that is happening is going to help the region to blend. One day, hopefully sometime in my lifetime, 8-Mile will just be a road and not a racial and economic dividing line.

However, for now Detroit will have to try it's best to rise from its ashes. The inner-ring suburbs will become increasingly diverse both racially and economically. Eventually we will have a much more balanced region, but until then we will have these issues.

[English]

48091, you better preach! Great post.

[canuck]

The big issue is the divide between the haves and the have-nots. 50 years ago everyone with the ability to do so ran out of Detroit, leaving only the poor and black people who WEREN'T ALLOWED to move out due to red-lining and other forms of racism.

This left Detroit with mostly poor black people. And before anyone starts blaming black people please realize that white people got a 400+ year head start on prosperity in America. Blacks were forced to work and die for free as slaves, and then after slavery was abolished, they were forced to be second class citizens, that had to use second class schools, that had to ride in the back of the bus, couldn't hold jobs that whites had, couldn't be paid the same as whites, and weren't allowed to live in white neighborhoods.

I know we'd like to think that most of this is behind us now, but the simple fact is that slavery and discrimination have put blacks at a disadvantage because their families were not allowed to build and have wealth for many, many generations.

This isn't to say that the black culture doesn't need to change itself from it's ways of promiscuous sex starting in the early teens, mothers with multitudes of kids without the same father, let alone a father that actually parents, and the gangster-hip-hop culture that glorifies all the bad decisions that black youth could possibly make.

The good thing is that the fall of Detroit is the black flight that is happening is going to help the region to blend. One day, hopefully sometime in my lifetime, 8-Mile will just be a road and not a racial and economic dividing line.

However, for now Detroit will have to try it's best to rise from its ashes. The inner-ring suburbs will become increasingly diverse both racially and economically. Eventually we will have a much more balanced region, but until then we will have these issues.

Thank you Dear Dog, someone spent all that time and effort in writing a pearl. I didnt have to do a thing, and that someone did it so much better than I would have.

Neda, where are you I need you so. Canuck

[gazhekwe]

Good post, 48091.

I have read through this hand wringing series of taking offenses and caterwauling, and I have to say, it sounds a lot like what we heard in the 60s. When THEY move in, they won't take care of their property, the schools will go down, property values go down, dah, dah, dah, There goes the neighborhood. Once anyone does integrate, everyone is watching and judging everything they do. Then you get all the judgments: family violence, break-ins, and not keeping up their property. THEY are ALL like that. There goes the neighborhood. If it hasn't changed in 50 years, what are we going to do about it? Keep rattling the drivel and pick up and run, or rally round and do what we can to keep our neighborhoods and buildings wholesome and safe?

[Lombaowski]

You think you got it bad. Just imagine what's left in Detroit Section 8 housing after the "smart" poor people move out. It's the complete bottom of the barrel.

Everyday they do absolutely nothing. The only way they tell the difference between the weekend and a weekday is that Judge Joe Brown is not televised on the weekend.

BTW--what was your last REAC score at your building?

LMAO, well put.

[NorthEndere]

Maybe we should have a civility class for these people before they move into 'our' neck of the woods?

Stay klassy. You to lincoln.

Hey, the 1960's called, you two. They want their thinly veiled racism/bigotry back.

[lincoln8740]

Stay klassy. You to lincoln.

Hey, the 1960's called, you two. They want their thinly veiled racism/bigotry back.

The 1980's called it wants its liberal default answer of "you are a racist!!" back

So predictable.
Instead of pointing out how I am wrong about Section 8 Detroit residents, all ya got is "Racist!!!" ?

[Scottathew]

Keep rattling the drivel and pick up and run, or rally round and do what we can to keep our neighborhoods and buildings wholesome and safe?

Exactly. I live in south Warren and we've had a lot of people move from poor places. The guy that bought the foreclosure from me across the street came from Hamtramck.

[[for the record he's a minority but not black) He didn't have what he needed at first to take care of his house. So what did my neighbors and I do? We helped him. We mowed his lawn for him. When he finally got a lawn mower but didn't have the right type of bags for his refuse we went over, gave him the right kind of bags so he wouldn't have to re-bag everything. When he was in the hospital with his sick mother and unable to shovel his snow a few weeks ago, we shoveled his walk, walkway, and porch.

I think he was surprised that white people were willing to help him. And we learned that our neighbors, although very different from us, are good and friendly people. We didn't let our differences stop us from being neighbors and helping each other out.

Metro-Detroiters on both sides of the race divide need to reach out to their neighbors and not avoid people that might be different than them.

[detroitxpert]

Strange, many of the apartment complexes in the burbs are not designed for people without cars, yet in 2011, several tenants without cars will walk to the gas station or liquor store for their basic groceries. Gas stations are seeing sales of bread, milk, processed meats and prepared sandwitches,izza, hot dogs,go throught the roof, while sales of the real grocery stores seem to suffer. Its not a matter of just race. We have poorer residence gravitating to white castle and Mc Donald for dinner instead of Panera Bread. Mid -Town Detroit will be the true center of attention in this disjointed region. Restructuring urbanizm

[gazhekwe]

48091, that's great, paying it forward is a great way to keep things wholesome. I have to say our mixed neighborhood is wonderful. Several neighbors brought by treats for Christmas in gratitude for our keeping an eye on things. One neighbor picks up circulars and papers off our driveway if they are there for a day or two. Helping each other is how it works. FWIW we are different races from most of our neighbors.

[Detroitnerd]

Yeah, I've had to help my neighbors, fresh from Bangladesh, with power tools, lawn work, stuff like that. They kept trying to run a lawnmower over two-foot-tall grass, only to have it jam and die every time. I brought out my weed whip, showed them how to cut it down to where they could mow it, and they were very enthusiastic. There were two of them, and the old guy got it right away. They brought it back in fine condition and were super friendly. A little help here and there is all it takes to make strong neighbors.