The Suburban Movement

**detroitxpert** · January-20-11, 01:03 PM

So Im a leasing consultant for several apartment complexes in the cities of Southfield And Oakpark. Our occupancy is stuck at 78% due to an ever changing demographic of low income section 8 residents who have fled Detroit for free heat and easy assess to super guetto k mart. The only new businesses that have opened in the area are family dollar and plazma doner centers.

Domestic violence, Break-ins, destruction of property and lack of efficient rent payments have brought us to our knees.The owner has little desire to upgrade the sites, tired of throwing good money at bad situations, so as Detroit continues to empty out, the suburbs find new challanges. any comments?

**Pcm** · January-20-11, 01:13 PM

oh, this is gonna be fun.

**iheartthed** · January-20-11, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by detroitxpert

any comments?

No.........

**gazhekwe** · January-20-11, 01:31 PM

If you continue to let the quality of your property slide, you will continue to get poorer and poorer results. You have to spend money to make money. Get to it!

**EastsideAl** · January-20-11, 01:40 PM

Indeed. If you allow your buildings to slide into a ghetto condition by not maintaining them, guess what you're going to have: a ghetto. What the hell makes you think that anyone but the poorest people would WANT to live in ill-maintained buildings?

Otherwise, the usual silly race-baiting thread.

**Danny** · January-20-11, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by detroitxpert

So Im a leasing consultant for several apartment complexes in the cities of Southfield And Oakpark. Our occupancy is stuck at 78% due to an ever changing demographic of low income section 8 residents who have fled Detroit for free heat and easy assess to super guetto k mart. The only new businesses that have opened in the area are family dollar and plazma doner centers.

Domestic violence, Break-ins, destruction of property and lack of efficient rent payments have brought us to our knees.The owner has little desire to upgrade the sites, tired of throwing good money at bad situations, so as Detroit continues to empty out, the suburbs find new challanges. any comments?

By order of the Housing and Urban Development/Section 8. Your company have to let low-income folks or any income they have into your complex. HUD will have to inspect your complex to find any flaws. Your company have to keep up with the housing and maintenance conditions are face fines and shut downs. So you're stuck.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Isn't government housing great.

Neda, I miss you so.

**Detroitnerd** · January-20-11, 02:10 PM

As long as our regional solution to local problems is for those who can afford to moving away ...

As long as our investors' solution to low property values is to milk them for all they're worth until they're not viable anymore ...

As long as we continue to blame the least fortunate for ... being unfortunate ...

... Detroit and increasingly metro Detroit will look like a slum.

**Hermod** · January-20-11, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

As long as our investors' solution to low property values is to milk them for all they're worth until they're not viable anymore ...

An economic phenomena known as "capital rescue"

When the railroads [[pre-Staggers Act) were not allowed to raise rates to cover costs, many of them went into the "capital rescue" mode where they took their "earned depreciation" charges and invested it by diversifying into non-railroad activities. An example was the Chicago & Northwestern Railway. It formed holding company called Northwest Industries. Every penny of cash flow from rail operations was reinvested into other industries by the holding company. When the railroad became pretty much derelict, Northwest Industries gave the railroad with worn out track, clapped out locomotives, and a shortage of serviceable freight cars to the employees of the railroad.

**maxx** · January-20-11, 02:15 PM

Whatever happened to occupant boards that controlled who lived in the apt. complexes? Section 8 housing should be set up like student housing coops.

**Johnlodge** · January-20-11, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by detroitxpert

So Im a leasing consultant for several apartment complexes in the cities of Southfield And Oakpark. Our occupancy is stuck at 78% due to an ever changing demographic of low income section 8 residents who have fled Detroit for free heat and easy assess to super guetto k mart. The only new businesses that have opened in the area are family dollar and plazma doner centers.

Domestic violence, Break-ins, destruction of property and lack of efficient rent payments have brought us to our knees.The owner has little desire to upgrade the sites, tired of throwing good money at bad situations, so as Detroit continues to empty out, the suburbs find new challanges. any comments?

What's the quality/education of the staff? I find they make all the difference in these situations.

DetroitPole · January-20-11, 02:28 PM

This person has some legitimate concerns and these are legitimate social issues we are facing and will increasingly face, whether it is pretty or not.
"as Detroit continues to empty out, the suburbs find new challanges"
Does anyone disagree with this statement???

To put it more politically correctly, people who live in the "ghettos" of America face challenges and come from different lifestyles than "mainstream" America. It is naive and frankly stupid to think that if you put someone from an American urban "ghetto" in a house in Grosse Pointe that they're going to act like Biff and Buffy.

As Detroit continues to deteriorate, and housing of all kinds in the suburbs become cheaper, people from broken homes, with addiction problems, very little education, little or no income, single parent homes, are going to look for a better life elsewhere, like everyone else, except with a lot more baggage.

Guess what? The chickens are coming home to roost. So we can either deal with it as a society [[where to begin?) or move out to, God knows where now, Mount Pleasant? Traverse City?

Fleeing has been our strategy for the past five decades. Nice to see how well that's worked out.

**Detroitej72** · January-20-11, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

Guess what? The chickens are coming home to roost. So we can either deal with it as a society [[where to begin?) or move out to, God knows where now, Mount Pleasant? Traverse City?

Fleeing has been our strategy for the past five decades. Nice to see how well that's worked out.

Well stated.

It's about time people acknowledge the failures of the suburban sprawl/ fleeing mentality and come up with solutions to the problems. Unfortunately for the region, most of the powers to be cater to the masses with the usual rhetoric of fear and hate, and of coarse, race baiting.

lincoln8740 · January-20-11, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

. Unfortunately for the region, most of the powers to be cater to the masses with the usual rhetoric of fear and hate, and of coarse, race baiting.

What the hell does the above have to do with someone wanting to live in a house with a huge yard, good schools and excellent police protection?

Get Detroit to have two out of three above and then you can try and get rid of the evil "sprawl" until that time I will stick with not having to lock my doors at night.

**cmubryan** · January-20-11, 06:33 PM

Hmmm....As a former Property Manager at a fairly well known apartment management company I oversaw an apartment community in Southfield from 2006 to 2010. I will say this, many of our new residents did move from Detroit but definitely not all. We however did not run a slumlord operation. We respected the residents and the residents, for the most part respected us back. The problems that we saw were outsiders causing problems [[mainly car break-ins or thefts) but definitely not what you are describing. We kept up the apartments, grounds and common areas and charged rents comparable to our sister communities in Canton, Farmington Hills and Harrison Twp. We had stricter qualifying criteria and took a no-nonsense approach with late rent, starting evicting proceedings almost immediately if rent was late. It worked well and the residents were happy. So it IS till possible to run and live in a decent community in Southfield. Oh and guess what? We took over a downtown Detroit highrise last year and the same type of thing started to happen. Set the expectation at the start, invest in the property, don't allow garbage to move in!

**cmubryan** · January-20-11, 06:35 PM

Hmmm....As a former Property Manager at a fairly well known apartment management company I oversaw an apartment community in Southfield from 2006 to 2010. I will say this, many of our new residents did move from Detroit but definitely not all. We however did not run a slumlord operation. We respected the residents and the residents, for the most part respected us back. The problems that we saw were outsiders causing problems [[mainly car break-ins or thefts) but definitely not what you are describing. We kept up the apartments, grounds and common areas and charged rents comparable to our sister communities in Canton, Farmington Hills and Harrison Twp. We had stricter qualifying criteria and took a no-nonsense approach with late rent, starting evicting proceedings almost immediately if rent was late. It worked well and the residents were happy. So it IS still possible to run and live in a decent community in Southfield. Oh and guess what? We took over a downtown Detroit highrise last year and the same type of thing started to happen. Set the expectation at the start, invest in the property, don't allow garbage to move in!

lincoln8740 · January-20-11, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by cmubryan

Hmmm....As a former Property Manager at a fairly well known apartment management company I oversaw an apartment community in Southfield from 2006 to 2010. I will say this, many of our new residents did move from Detroit but definitely not all. We however did not run a slumlord operation. We respected the residents and the residents, for the most part respected us back. The problems that we saw were outsiders causing problems [[mainly car break-ins or thefts) but definitely not what you are describing. We kept up the apartments, grounds and common areas and charged rents comparable to our sister communities in Canton, Farmington Hills and Harrison Twp. We had stricter qualifying criteria and took a no-nonsense approach with late rent, starting evicting proceedings almost immediately if rent was late. It worked well and the residents were happy. So it IS still possible to run and live in a decent community in Southfield. Oh and guess what? We took over a downtown Detroit highrise last year and the same type of thing started to happen. Set the expectation at the start, invest in the property, don't allow garbage to move in!

Big difference from market rate tenants compared to Section 8 tenants. Our market rate places are relatively quiet. Why? Because everyone works!!!!!

**BrushStart** · January-20-11, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by lincoln8740

What the hell does the above have to do with someone wanting to live in a house with a huge yard, good schools and excellent police protection?

Get Detroit to have two out of three above and then you can try and get rid of the evil "sprawl" until that time I will stick with not having to lock my doors at night.

Sadly, I feel like you are the type that he/she is talking about. Nobody is trying to take away your huge yard, good schools, or police protection. We ARE actually trying to improve those things, but have come to the consensus that more sprawl is not the solution, or even feasible. As for you, live wherever the heck you want. If you happen to be one of the lucky ones who can afford to sell their home at a loss and buy a new Pulte model off a dirt road out in Ortonville, then by all means, do it. You ranting about "Detroit this" and "Detroit that" is worthless rhetoric.

lincoln8740 · January-20-11, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

Sadly, I feel like you are the type that he/she is talking about. Nobody is trying to take away your huge yard, good schools, or police protection. We ARE actually trying to improve those things, but have come to the consensus that more sprawl is not the solution, or even feasible. As for you, live wherever the heck you want. If you happen to be one of the lucky ones who can afford to sell their home at a loss and buy a new Pulte model off a dirt road out in Ortonville, then by all means, do it. You ranting about "Detroit this" and "Detroit that" is worthless rhetoric.

I was responding to this juicy line--"It's about time people acknowledge the failures of the suburban sprawl/ fleeing mentality and come up with solutions to the problems. Unfortunately for the region, most of the powers to be cater to the masses with the usual rhetoric of fear and hate, and of coarse, race baiting. "

Who is "ranting worthless rhetoric" again?

**detroitxpert** · January-20-11, 03:14 PM

Seems as though the section 8 reps are advising their clients to move out the the suburbs instead of renting a house in Detroit that will require them to pay their own heat, which could be several hundred dollars in winter months. Section 8 will only approve a file that has rent under a certain amount and with mostly free utilities,,

**mwilbert** · January-20-11, 03:48 PM

Wherever you own rental property, you have to rent it to the kind of people who want to live where your property is and can afford to. If the owner doesn't want to deal with those people, he either has to make it attractive to different people or sell the property to someone who is willing to. If he doesn't like Section 8 tenants, maybe he should consider not including the utilities in the rent, but he'd still have to find some other tenants who probably aren't wildly different demographically.

lincoln8740 · January-20-11, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by detroitxpert

Seems as though the section 8 reps are advising their clients to move out the the suburbs instead of renting a house in Detroit that will require them to pay their own heat, which could be several hundred dollars in winter months. Section 8 will only approve a file that has rent under a certain amount and with mostly free utilities,,

You think you got it bad. Just imagine what's left in Detroit Section 8 housing after the "smart" poor people move out. It's the complete bottom of the barrel.

Everyday they do absolutely nothing. The only way they tell the difference between the weekend and a weekday is that Judge Joe Brown is not televised on the weekend.

BTW--what was your last REAC score at your building?

**Lombaowski** · January-20-11, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by lincoln8740

You think you got it bad. Just imagine what's left in Detroit Section 8 housing after the "smart" poor people move out. It's the complete bottom of the barrel.

Everyday they do absolutely nothing. The only way they tell the difference between the weekend and a weekday is that Judge Joe Brown is not televised on the weekend.

BTW--what was your last REAC score at your building?

LMAO, well put.

**Det_ard** · January-20-11, 04:18 PM

It's a game of musical chairs, instead of taking away chairs, people leave the state. Same number of dwellings, fewer people, everyone shifts to slightly better housing at the same cost, resulting in abandonment of the worst of the worst. It's no coincidence that Detroit has hollowed out even more the past three years at the same time the inner ring burbs like Harper Woods, Eastpointe, S. Warren, Oak Park, S. Ferndale, Southfield etc. see an influx of Detroiters and an increase in Section 8 rentals.

Landlord's just gotta deal with it. Either accept that the demographics of your area have slipped and adjust accordingly or sell the property and buy in a Class A area.

**BrushStart** · January-20-11, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

It's a game of musical chairs, instead of taking away chairs, people leave the state. Same number of dwellings, fewer people, everyone shifts to slightly better housing at the same cost, resulting in abandonment of the worst of the worst. It's no coincidence that Detroit has hollowed out even more the past three years at the same time the inner ring burbs like Harper Woods, Eastpointe, S. Warren, Oak Park, S. Ferndale, Southfield etc. see an influx of Detroiters and an increase in Section 8 rentals.

Landlord's just gotta deal with it. Either accept that the demographics of your area have slipped and adjust accordingly or sell the property and buy in a Class A area.

We better start sprawling again: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en...dbc0b292230951

**adamjab19** · January-20-11, 04:44 PM

Honestly, this thread can be tied in quite nicely with the sterling heights one. Black or white, open or closed minded, sad but true poor people are moving around because housing prices are down in areas where they haven't been in the past. Thus poor people can move in where they were once "blocked" out before. So the poor people bring down the economies even further in certain areas with their dumpy cars and lack of property management and proper social interactions and increased crime rate that they have tried to move from.

Maybe we should have a civility class for these people before they move into 'our' neck of the woods?