Michigan: A RIght to Work State?

**maxx** · January-19-11, 08:37 PM

http://www.michiganafp.com/2011/01/n...-on-the-table/

And...
"...Bolger would start the clock retroactively to provide current and future recipients an absolute maximum of four years of assistance..."

**ghettopalmetto** · January-20-11, 09:05 AM

Uh, yeah. You see, the real problem with Michigan is that the skilled workforce can't compete with rural Mississippians who will work for 8 bucks an hour with no benefits. It's high time we fix that problem!

*rollseyes*

**Det_ard** · January-20-11, 10:52 AM

Michigan has the best auto industry workforce in the country, particularly at the skilled and engineering level. Yet not a single final assembly plant has been located here by any of the Asian or European auto manufacturers. Why? They don't want to be in a strong union state. They're willing to locate in an area with a sub-par workforce just to avoid the cost and hassles of a unionized workforce.

How many of the plants that located in the South might have come here had our strong union reputation not been such an impediment? How many jobs would have been retained as market share shifted from domestic to foreign companies in the last few decades? How much healthier would our economy have been had we had a more diversified auto manufacturing base? We'll never know because we still have cling to our strong union structure, even though that continues to repel new business.

If Michigan had been able to attract even 1/3 of the newly built foreign manufacturing plants and their hundreds of associated suppliers, how much lower would our unemployment rate be now? Our future still depends heavily on the auto sector. If we remain unattractive to a large segment of the auto industry our state will continue to pay the price.

But it may already be too late. The abundance of auto plants in Southern states has created a number of auto-centric business locations far from Michigan. The decision to located in the South versus in Michigan is easier than ever for an auto company. Yet some here in Michigan want to ride that union horse into the ground.

**ghettopalmetto** · January-20-11, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

But it may already be too late. The abundance of auto plants in Southern states has created a number of auto-centric business locations far from Michigan. The decision to located in the South versus in Michigan is easier than ever for an auto company. Yet some here in Michigan want to ride that union horse into the ground.

Oh yeah, is that so? I suppose the $250 million ass kissing that South Carolina gave BMW had *absolutely nothing* to do with anything, did it? It was all the unions, or lack thereof. Never mind that the State of South Carolina had to shell out additional public money just to train folks how to do jobs that Detroit's UAW members have been doing for decades.

Of course, it doesn't hurt that "right-to-work" is a euphemism for an activist union-busting state government. Who needs Constitutionally-guaranteed freedom of association? Who needs the federal National Labor Relations Act? By golly, we're going to suck the cock of every big business who needs cheap, uneducated, exploitable labor!

Face it--the European automakers are using the American South as a Third World labor force. And the executives in Germany laugh their asses to the bank while our public coffers PAY for the "privilege" of $12/hr jobs. Not only do they increase their corporate bottom line, but they ensure that they keep Americans poor and stupid at the same time.

**Det_ard** · January-20-11, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Oh yeah, is that so? I suppose the $250 million ass kissing that South Carolina gave BMW had *absolutely nothing* to do with anything, did it? It was all the unions, or lack thereof. Never mind that the State of South Carolina had to shell out additional public money just to train folks how to do jobs that Detroit's UAW members have been doing for decades.

Of course, it doesn't hurt that "right-to-work" is a euphemism for an activist union-busting state government. Who needs Constitutionally-guaranteed freedom of association? Who needs the federal National Labor Relations Act? By golly, we're going to suck the cock of every big business who needs cheap, uneducated, exploitable labor!

Face it--the European automakers are using the American South as a Third World labor force. And the executives in Germany laugh their asses to the bank while our public coffers PAY for the "privilege" of $12/hr jobs. Not only do they increase their corporate bottom line, but they ensure that they keep Americans poor and stupid at the same time.

Nice having an intellectual discussion with you. Do you scream hyperbolic inanities and obscenities at the radio and TV too?

May peace be upon you.

**ghettopalmetto** · January-20-11, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

Nice having an intellectual discussion with you. Do you scream hyperbolic inanities and obscenities at the radio and TV too?

May peace be upon you.

Did I write anything that was factually incorrect?

**bailey** · January-20-11, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Did I write anything that was factually incorrect?

Well, yeah.. I mean the real rate is about $15 an hour for new hires in those plants in the South. That's a hellofa lot more than third world. Try 3.50 an hour in Mexico where GM and home town hero/no bailout taking Ford is building it's newest and shiniest plants. Lets also point out that GM's Orion plaint is paying new hires about that much now too under the new two tier agreement for the small car plants.

The question for Michigan is do we want no new manufacturing jobs or do we want jobs that pay less? I understand not a great choice but it's the reality brought to us by a generation of management and unions kicking the can down the road on the real price of labor.

**rb336** · January-20-11, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Face it--the European automakers are using the American South as a Third World labor force. And the executives in Germany laugh their asses to the bank while our public coffers PAY for the "privilege" of $12/hr jobs. Not only do they increase their corporate bottom line, but they ensure that they keep Americans poor and stupid at the same time.

well put. but of course, you are just "anti-business"

**MikeM** · January-22-11, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Oh yeah, is that so? I suppose the $250 million ass kissing that South Carolina gave BMW had *absolutely nothing* to do with anything, did it? It was all the unions, or lack thereof. Never mind that the State of South Carolina had to shell out additional public money just to train folks how to do jobs that Detroit's UAW members have been doing for decades.

Mississippi started the trend and Georgia is the latest to catch on. Georgia uses taxpayer money to set up a training program under the umbrella of the state's community college system to train workers for auto jobs. You have to apply to the program and be interviewed by Kia before being accepted. Once you've spent your money and completed the program then you get interviewed again before you graduate. If you've made it that far and get accepted for employment at Kia, then you get to go into Kia's training facility, also built and paid for with taxpayer money by Georgia. Meanwhile everyone complains about the poor performance of public schools in the south yet no one wants to pay more taxes. But it's okay to use their tax money [[which they probably aren't aware of) to weed out potential union members while supplying cheap labor to support a foreign company.

**ghettopalmetto** · January-24-11, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by MikeM

Mississippi started the trend and Georgia is the latest to catch on. Georgia uses taxpayer money to set up a training program under the umbrella of the state's community college system to train workers for auto jobs. You have to apply to the program and be interviewed by Kia before being accepted. Once you've spent your money and completed the program then you get interviewed again before you graduate. If you've made it that far and get accepted for employment at Kia, then you get to go into Kia's training facility, also built and paid for with taxpayer money by Georgia. Meanwhile everyone complains about the poor performance of public schools in the south yet no one wants to pay more taxes. But it's okay to use their tax money [[which they probably aren't aware of) to weed out potential union members while supplying cheap labor to support a foreign company.

EXACTLY. That is the entire damned problem--the right-to-work states funnel public resources into the wallets of executives who live out-of-state, and they use public resources to squash workers' rights to organize. Yet God forbid we use those same public resources to educate people, build infrastructure, or provide opportunities for those too stupid to be born to wealthy families.

Somehow, in some perverse way, the leaders of South Carolina believe that bribing Suits in Chicago and Germany with public money somehow makes us better off. Yet the South still trails the remainder of the nation in education, income, and just about every measurable quality-of-life issue by a long shot. What gives?

It's the same line of thinking that cries foul regarding federal government spending, but throws a God damned tantrum when the wealthiest 2% of Americans are facing a "tax increase". If any of this right-wing financial gymnastics jibber-jabber was even halfway correct, Alabama would look like Hong Kong and not the Third World.

**rb336** · January-20-11, 10:54 AM

Texas, a "right to work" state, has much lower unemployment, but a higher poverty level than Michigan. 13 of the 15 highest poverty states are "right to work" states. No r-t-w is in the top 10 in per-capita.

**Detroitnerd** · January-20-11, 02:29 PM

Ah, yes. It's business logic time. How do we attract jobs? By promising to accept wages that will keep us poor. And to never allow labor to organize to ask for more money, no matter how profitable companies are.

Oh, FUCK yeah. That's an AWESOME idea! Where do I sign?

**1KielsonDrive** · January-20-11, 03:21 PM

Here we are arguing about all of the various problems facing our society, our culture and our country. What are we doing about them? Until we get a handle on the one party, corporate funded election system gripping our country, none of these discussions matter. Democracy? Free Market? Capitalism? Free Elections? Free Press? All euphemisms and lies. We must have, simultaneously, huge skepticism in this system we grew up believing is the best, and belief that our system still holds enough promise that we can turn it upside down to produce positive results. We become cynical optimists. Get up each day being happy with whatever we have but determined to do whatever is necessary to challenge the bullshit put out by the corporate, political party establishment.

**Jimaz** · January-20-11, 04:19 PM

In my experience in right to work states, classic union activities [[threat of strike, collective negotiations, etc.) happen anyway despite the absence of any formal union. They're just more spontaneous.

What happens is managers [[themselves under pressure) make ever greater demands on employees, including even unpaid [[slave) labor, until something breaks. Suddenly an unplanned employee collective spontaneously emerges to deal with the problem. Whether the process stays civil depends on the immediate situation. It's very, well, unmanaged. I would think management would prefer the more orderly processes unions provide.

Oddly, I've never before heard this phenomenon described but I have seen it first hand.

gdogslim · January-20-11, 04:55 PM

If that is the case -^ ^- then one would think that unions would welcome states becoming right to work.
Then they could have a more angry workforce that would end up demanding union representation.

Comparing a r-t-w states with high poverty and income is like comparing high unionized cities states and high taxes with people and businesses moving away from them to the south and non unionized areas.

**Detroitnerd** · January-20-11, 05:15 PM

"Right to work" means "the right to work for less."

littlebuddy · January-22-11, 08:19 AM

31,ooo is a good salary for unskilled auto workers. How much skill does it take to put a nut on a bolt. I worked at GM for 4 years at the Fleetwood Fisherbody plant on Fort St. and it was full of people from down south and others from up here who had no skills and less education, but managed to put a nut on a bolt. I was a loner and did a different job everyday and there was not much skill needed.