Without aid, DPS may close half of its schools

[fryar]

Good points.
Is it possible that the additional maintenance involved in having the council meet in a vacant school or other building exceeds the cost of rent? I have no idea, but people around here seem to be able to guesstimate these things. Also, from the "let them take the bus like the rest of us shlubs" file, they can't just meet in a school that is operational [[assuming they meet after-hours)?

I'd like to see people not steal from DPS and get away with it. I'd like to see the fat trimmed at the TOP [[ala Bobb's cronies having no bid contracts ...

That's a city-wide issue. How is this addressed in other cities or political entities? Detroit can't be the only place with seemingly endemic corruption.

[DetroitTeacher]

The board does hold its public meetings in operational schools. I was talking about the DPS offices in the Kahn and Fisher Buildings. They are lush and lavish and cost a fortune. They could refurb one of the vacant schools [[or just move into one that is closing) and save some bucks that way.

[fryar]

I see. That sounds like a very reasonable idea for squeezing out some savings.

[SlipperyPencil]

While some of Robert Bobb's suggestions make sense, for some reason he's stuck on having the state [[itself financially bankrupt) pay off the DPS debt. This was soundly rejected in the past and has no chance of happening now. He's also opposed to filing bankruptcy. There's no reason bankruptcy should be off the table. It would eliminate the debt and give the district the clean slate Bobb wants.

The Detroit Federation of Teachers has presented a plan to Bobb and the DPS that would eliminate the debt without any additional costs to the parties involved, avoid bankruptcy, and unlike Bobb's plan, not destroy the DPS system. Yet these ideas are not being put forth.

Almost every year the DPS hires numerous consultants costing millions of dollars. These consultants never come up with anything that the DFT hadn't already suggested for free. Until there's separation of school & state, people are made responsible for their own lives and their own children, and there's a free market in education solutions, these problems will continue to plague the education system.

[DetroitTeacher]

Welcome SlipperyPencil! Love the name!! i completely agree with your post. Teachers have been saying the same things for years [[we do know how to squeeze money out of thin air) but no one ever listens. Usually, we take the brunt end of the stick as it's jabbing us in the kaboose.

[firstandten]

While some of Robert Bobb's suggestions make sense, for some reason he's stuck on having the state [[itself financially bankrupt) pay off the DPS debt. This was soundly rejected in the past and has no chance of happening now. He's also opposed to filing bankruptcy. There's no reason bankruptcy should be off the table. It would eliminate the debt and give the district the clean slate Bobb wants.

The Detroit Federation of Teachers has presented a plan to Bobb and the DPS that would eliminate the debt without any additional costs to the parties involved, avoid bankruptcy, and unlike Bobb's plan, not destroy the DPS system. Yet these ideas are not being put forth.

Almost every year the DPS hires numerous consultants costing millions of dollars. These consultants never come up with anything that the DFT hadn't already suggested for free. Until there's separation of school & state, people are made responsible for their own lives and their own children, and there's a free market in education solutions, these problems will continue to plague the education system.

What is the debt elimination plan the DFT is putting forth ?

[jerrytimes]

School of Choice at it's finest.

[SlipperyPencil]

What is the debt elimination plan the DFT is putting forth ?

The final report will be written by the DFT board so I don't know what ideas will make the final cut. My input was sought because my views are so far out of the norm for govt school & union thinking. Ideas put forth but immediately dismissed were bankruptcy and pay cuts. Ideas initially included in the rough draft include cutting bureaucracy, quit hiring expensive consultants that tell you nothing, reallocating funds received from the state for special programs [[these programs are expensive and underutilized), change health insurance [[premiums run as high as $18,000/employee), school choice - mimic the free market as much as possible making schools compete for students and teachers accountable, embrace Teach for America. There were other suggestions, but the planning session was a few weeks ago and that's what I recall off the top of my head.

[DetroitTeacher]

The final report will be written by the DFT board so I don't know what ideas will make the final cut. My input was sought because my views are so far out of the norm for govt school & union thinking. Ideas put forth but immediately dismissed were bankruptcy and pay cuts. Ideas initially included in the rough draft include cutting bureaucracy, quit hiring expensive consultants that tell you nothing, reallocating funds received from the state for special programs [[these programs are expensive and underutilized), change health insurance [[premiums run as high as $18,000/employee), school choice - mimic the free market as much as possible making schools compete for students and teachers accountable, embrace Teach for America. There were other suggestions, but the planning session was a few weeks ago and that's what I recall off the top of my head.

Another insurance change? I can't keep up! They JUST changed our insurance and our Rx coverage. What more can they change? My premiums are not even close to 18 grand [[DPS's contribution).

[fryar]

... change health insurance [[premiums run as high as $18,000/employee)...

As an O/T aside, this compares quite favorably with New York. My dad's employer was recently quotes twice that [[sorry, but it's worth mentioning).

[RickBeall]

DetroitTeacher wrote:
>>The board does hold its public meetings in operational schools. I was talking about the DPS offices in the Kahn and Fisher Buildings. They are lush and lavish and cost a fortune. They could refurb one of the vacant schools [[or just move into one that is closing) and save some bucks that way.

I work above the DPS offices in the Fisher Building [[Actually New Center One attached to the Fischer building), and it amazes me that they rent when they already own plenty of large buildings.

Also, when I first started working here 5 years back, the DPS were known for their lavish lunches they regularly threw for themselves. You could see the spread through the windows from the mall area as you rode the elevator up.

That, and various readings sure made it appear that administration and union officials were living large, while the teachers were left to fend for themselves with no administrative support. The teachers are just used to support the union.

[mwilbert]

My premiums are not even close to 18 grand [[DPS's contribution).

That is a fairly common number for a family plan with reasonable benefits. It would be very high for a single person, and high for a person and spouse [[or spouse-equivalent).

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

This is complete insanity, if the DPS leadership thinks anything positive will come from a class size of 62 in the 9-12 environment then he needs to put the crack pipe down. Ok... we already know the city has many problems that will not be fixed overnight but if your answer to one of those problems is to cripple its future workforce by educating them in chaos then good luck with that.

[oladub]

The kids should come first. The DPS has the first shot at necessary reforms. If the DPS fails to cut it's costs, one possibility is to give parents the option of vouchers for private schools. 15,000 Milwaukee students attend private schools with $6,500 vouchers. It's all voluntary. Parents can send their kids back to public schools if they think public schools can do a better job.

64% of Milwaukee students receiving vouchers who are in private schools graduate whereas only 36% of public school students graduate. There is debate whether this represents cherry picking or more motivated parents sending their students to private schools. The number of parents who would like to send their kids to a private school with a voucher vastly exceeds the number of vouchers available.

Study Bolsters Case For Tuition Vouchers http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Sep28.html
Milwaukee's lessons on school vouchers [[ page 1 only )
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0523/p01s03-usgn.html
[[wickipedia) School Voucher http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_voucher

An idea I've had which always evokes criticism is for detroit to allow large 4,000 resident and up gated communities of perhaps up to 50 square blocks with their own private schools. The DPS would receive it's share of new tax revenue to better educate students in it's care. I realize that some people hate the exclusivity of gated communities so much that they would rather have Detroit's children sitting in underfunded 60 student classrooms.

[fryar]

DetroitTeacher wrote:
>>The board does hold its public meetings in operational schools. I was talking about the DPS offices in the Kahn and Fisher Buildings. They are lush and lavish and cost a fortune. They could refurb one of the vacant schools [[or just move into one that is closing) and save some bucks that way.

I work above the DPS offices in the Fisher Building [[Actually New Center One attached to the Fischer building), and it amazes me that they rent when they already own plenty of large buildings.

Also, when I first started working here 5 years back, the DPS were known for their lavish lunches they regularly threw for themselves. You could see the spread through the windows from the mall area as you rode the elevator up.

That, and various readings sure made it appear that administration and union officials were living large, while the teachers were left to fend for themselves with no administrative support. The teachers are just used to support the union.

I recall someone posting on here recently that more of a state of emergency mentality is needed. This certainly supports that notion.

[begingri]

DPS: 1,250 out-of-district students want to enroll in top schools

Read more: DPS: 1,250 out-of-district students want to enroll in top schools | freep.com | Detroit Free Press

[fryar]

While that Freep article speaks of out-of-district students, which kind of suggests kids from suburban schools without saying so, the actual DPS press release is more measured:

"More than 1,250 non-public school students are taking tests this week to see if they can gain entry to Detroit Public Schools’ premier high school programs.

During this annual event, students from private schools, charter schools, home schools, and church-affiliated schools will be tested for fall 2011 entrance into Cass, Renaissance and King High schools. The district is slated to test 200 students on each of the eight days of testing. An additional 350 students who need accommodations or who are taking a make-up test will be tested next week.

Any Grade 8 Detroit resident who completed an application is eligible to test. DPS Grade 8 students test at their schools. Grade 8 non-residents are sent a notification of the date, place and time for their testing session.

The district will offer one testing session for students who require special accommodations and at least one makeup day for students who are eligible to test and have a written excuse for missing their appointment."

[rid0617]

While I've never been a teacher, I don't see the complaining about 30-35 students per classroom. Graduating in 1969 I never was in a class size less than 30. Most around 35. But on this other hand this talk of 60 is ridiculous. Especially with kids now a days that respect nothing but themselves.