Is it me, or does it just feel like Detroit turned a corner?

[gazhekwe]

The problem with that theory is that when people used to shovel their own streets before Archer, the population density in the city was far greater. On streets where half the houses are vacant, who is going to shovel in front of them?
In theory, I guess all the neighbors could take two houses each, but really...

I just gave that as an example. We have street plowing now even though many of the streets are half vacant, no tax revenue to support it.

That is just an example of how we used community effort to make things better when we did not have the resource. I think with movement in a positive direction, community spirit will be reborn. We shall just have to see how it all works out.

[Hermod]

The problem with that theory is that when people used to shovel their own streets before Archer, the population density in the city was far greater. On streets where half the houses are vacant, who is going to shovel in front of them?
In theory, I guess all the neighbors could take two houses each, but really...

The side streets weren't shoveled in the 40s and 50s. You cleared your own driveway and sidewalks, but the street just remained a hard packed mixture of snow and ice from the first lasting snowfall in December until the spring thaw. Sometimes a city truck would run down the street dumping Detroit Edison cinders on top of the snow and ice mixture.

[Carey]

Are attitudes about Detroit turning around? Among some people, especially young people, there seems to be a lot of positive energy these days. A number of good things are happening in Midtown. The auto industry is clearly in a much better position than a year or two ago. Quicken's move added workers and activity downtown.

But is Detroit itself turning around? It is hard to make that argument, as the condition of most neighborhoods continues to deteriorate, the population continues to decline, public safety is reaching the crisis point, and there is no sign of any influx of enough jobs to make a real difference in the unemployment situation. And Detroit still faces a fiscal crisis.

Over the nearly 60 years of Detroit's decline, there were always positive developments going on, including growth in certain areas and improvments in some neighborhoods. But the whole, 140-square-mile city never stopped declining. I wish it were otherwise, but I think that same process is happening today.

But what is different than, say, 1970 or 1987 is the urban crisis has extended to the suburbs, as the economy takes it toll across the region. Troy is talking about closing its library and Dearborn might shut down its six neighborhood swimming pools next summer. In suburbia, it's kind of like Detroit, circa 1966, as the economic crisis really started hitting home. .

[canuck]

Count me in with the rain-on-your-parade camp, sadly.
Seriously, nearly all the hype has been focused on the greater downtown area. Well that is a tiny, tiny geographic area, no matter how you slice it. What, maybe 10 square miles in a 140 square mile city?

It also seems to me that much of this hype is coming from those who don't live here. A lot of the cool shit that the media is now reporting on has been going on here in some way, shape or form for a long, long time, they've just made Detroit their media darling. I lived in the Cass Corridor before it was cool. It was actually still cool, it was just a secret. Oh yeah, there have always been good restaurants, too. Phil Cooley didn't invent that, even though he has a good one indeed. Meanwhile people are still getting mowed down at schools and bus stops.

Don't get me wrong: I like it here. For many reasons other people like it here. I live here by choice. Most people in their right mind would not, though. I also probably won't stay here. I don't see a future here.

I also live in one of the "green zone" neighborhoods. Well, we still have some serious, serious problems. And this is in the "good" Detroit!!! Every time I see another vacant house in the neighborhood I wring my hands in angst. What will my neighborhood look like in 5 years?

I take E. Forest and Warren Avenue eastbound home from work. Drive that stretch and tell me what the hell we're going do do with all those totally fucked up neighborhoods. Really, because I have no idea. What is left of them anyway - part of the problem with Detroit is that so much is entirely gone. If NYC or Chicago were leveled like Detroit was, I doubt they would have had a resurgence.

I'm mostly happy here, but I see few reasons to be optimistic.

In spite of your pessimism, I applaud your courage and your love for Detroit. I have been trying to put myself in your shoes for a while now, thinking what it is like to have to live in a city that has had so many obstacles to overcome.

But the downtown needs to be taken care of and become a magnet for new residents and tourists alike. So, the core is important; core = cuore in italian coeur in french, like if the heart is failing; you had better try to revive it.

I guess the city's planners will have to be really creative and find ways of tying neighborhoods together with good transit choices. In the best possible situation, the whole inner city would be a major public works project and [[in my view) a Garden City that was envisaged by leaders and visionaries in the 19th century. The whole industrial boom period provided jobs but also a whole slew of negatives. If what remains of Detroit neigborhoods can be tied together along various axes, town centers with islands of secure shopping and transit nodes, then, it will regain density and interest. So, this Garden City, which gives plenty of room for restoration and adding density could be helped along by incentives to homeowners and businesses. The real estate values warrant this. I also think clusters are more encouraging for startups. The city could incentivize anchor businesses to strengthen the mix, etc...

I think Bing's arrival has definitely helped the city's image and confidence. Many years of corrupt leadership are bound to repel outside investment. Now is a better time for attracting positive developments.

[rjk]

I would hate to think that Detroit has turned any corner. If it has we have very low ass standards.

This city has miles to go before it can even see that corner. However, there's nothing wrong with taking steps in the right direction.

[Johnlodge]

Also, as far as turning a corner... I think Detroit hit the bottom, bounced up a bit, was then whacked back down again by the economic downturn, re-hit the bottom, and is bouncing back up again. Hopefully this time it will continue upwards until it reaches a sort of critical mass. I'm always optimistic, even if I don't do a lot of rah-rah'ing about it.

[Carey]

"Beleagured" Detroit has turned the corner, in the Free Press!
The Burlington [[VT) Free Press that is.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/a...=2011101100304

[fryar]

From afar, it does seem like Detroit may have turned a corner. That doesn't mean things are looking up for many of Detroit's residents, however. Detroit's starting point for the rebound, if it really is rebounding, is pretty far gone to begin with, and some of it may simply be unsalvageable.

[Richard]

Corner kinda sharp , curve or even the stage is being set more so , Cbd or downtown is all ways first in line, so far from what I have seen what is being done is because of demand or creating demand and less speculation as time goes on the people living in those lofts or high-rises will want babies and a white picket fence other then that you will always have city dwellers and others that want to live close but not on top.Rents will rise then the outskirts will become more desirable.

Question is will Detroit learn from others mistakes and not support the surrounding areas during this rise ?

The advantage she has in being literally last in line in the rebuilding process is being to be able to see what has worked in other cities or what has not,city dynamics is the same everywhere,jobs safety for the family ,quality of life or even just a nice place to live work and play.

[ottokar790]

It's easy to throw stones. How about coming up with some ideas that you believe will work. Until then, step aside and let others work on their plans. At least they're doing something.

[NorthEndere]

I've already said it, but I think people are confusing some things. Detroit has never physically looked worse, but then again, why would it? So, it is getting better in terms of aesthetics on net? Hell no. Abandonment is spread more uniformly across the city than it once was. But, where the abandonment spread and nothing was built or retained on net - when every city in the neighborhood was on its way down regardless of what rate - there are actually growing neighborhoods in the city for the first time in decades. There were years in the 90's when Detroit didn't have a single new housing start. I also want someone to tell me that the city is worse, crime-wise, than during the crack epidemic of the 80's when the homicide rate was near an astounding 80 homicides per 100,000 people, when there was such a thing a pretty regular random murders.

I also still argue that pyschologically, it has no doubt in my mind turned a major corner, and that will eventually begin [[if it hasn't already) to manifest itself physically, on net. Detroit will continue to lose population, probably more slowly, but for some time to come, but that doesn't in itself doesn't mean anything. The city of Pittsburgh and its entire metropolitan area, in fact, have been losing population for decades, but no one would argue that Pittsburgh is worse off today than it was in the 80's.

[BrushStart]

Here's what I think:

Detroit's revitalization will continue to accelerate as other developments occur. For instance, a lot of the recently announced projects are responses to announcements of other projects. Developers all want to be first to the market, but are usually hesitant to take the first risk. It's like they all tiptoe to the edge of the pool then wait for someone else to take the plunge. Before you know it, it's cannon balls left and right. This happened pre-crash with the Kales, Book-Cadillac, and Fort Shelby. Plans for other big projects, like a new stadium or light rail also help get loan applications pushed through. Often, the success of a project largely depends on the hype built up around it. There is a lot of positive movement right now, and I do not think it has even nearly reached a peak. If the general economy continues to plug along, I think Detroit will begin to peak sometime around 2015-2020. Project out 4-5 years and here's what we can reasonably expect:

- Light rail from downtown to New Center, possibly to 8 Mile up and running
- New stadium downtown w/ perhaps a new high-end shopping center
- Renovated Broderick Tower, Free Press Building, and maybe the Whitney
- Major DMC expansion in Midtown
- Henry Ford Expansion in New Center
- Several WSU projects completed
- Completed Riverwalk
- Completed Dequindre Cut
- Completed Riverfront Wharf
- New Police headquarters at former MGM site
- Thriving Corktown and Midtown Corridor
- Growth of Creative Districts, like Sugar Hill, and Russell Industrial
- Gentrified downtown population with few apartments under $1,200/mo
- Increased positive national attention leading to shift in attitude and perception
- Several smaller in-fill developments, i.e. lofts, boutiques, retail, pubs, and eateries

All of these developments are concentrated in the city's core, i.e. downtown, Midtown, New Center, Corktown, Woodbridge, Lafayette Park, and E. Riverfront. This makes sense. These areas are the most desirable no matter how you spin it, and until they are healthy, other parts of Detroit will continue to starve off like leaves on a dying tree. Once the trunk is healthy, development will absolutely spread outward from the center. Greater downtown is the root of Detroit, and in many ways the root region. Detroit's outer neighborhoods need to hang in there until downtown is thriving. The more intact they stay, the more investment dollars will naturally flow into them in the future. It's only a matter of time, although it may be a long time for some neighborhoods. By 2020, I think downtown Detroit will without question re-emerge as the epicenter of the region, as well as the state. By 2030-2040, I think Detroit's population will again exceed 1 million, depending on the global economy and how well we diversify our business base. However, I expect it to be much more dense in certain areas and very sparse in others. Bing's redevelopment of the city will surely kick start this trend.

[NorthEndere]

This is a very narrow definition of what we're talking about. Turning a corner will involve far more than physical redevelopment of properties, and far more than in just downtown, at that. I think the question was far more broad than simply talking about downtown, and far more general than just talking about the physical environment. Some very real indicators include things like poverty rates, school achievement, median income, median housing prices, college graduates as a percentage of the population, unemployment rate, etc...

[401don]

Interesting how the "Without Aid Detroit May Close Half Its Schools" thread is currently directly below this one. Sixty students in a classroom would be turning a corner and driving over a cliff for the city's future.

[Mikeg]

This is a very narrow definition of what we're talking about. Turning a corner will involve far more than physical redevelopment of properties, and far more than in just downtown, at that. I think the question was far more broad than simply talking about downtown, and far more general than just talking about the physical environment. Some very real indicators include things like poverty rates, school achievement, median income, median housing prices, college graduates as a percentage of the population, unemployment rate, etc...

Another key indicator that we've "turned the corner" will be the repeated groundbreakings for new private projects that do not include public funding beyond local property tax abatements.

[bailey]

Interesting how the "Without Aid Detroit May Close Half Its Schools" thread is currently directly below this one. Sixty students in a classroom would be turning a corner and driving over a cliff for the city's future.

yes but they'll have 40MM in new computers...so it's all good.

[DetroitPole]

Interesting how the "Without Aid Detroit May Close Half Its Schools" thread is currently directly below this one. Sixty students in a classroom would be turning a corner and driving over a cliff for the city's future.

but but but but the Riverwalk!!! And...a new stadium maybe!!! Then yea, the milk and honey will flow from downtown unto the ghetto.

[Fnemecek]

To answer the question that started this thread: yes, Detroit is turning a corner. A lot of people throughout this city have stopped waiting for government to solve a given problem are starting to take care of things themselves.

The local government is still a tremendous disappointment. However, the next election is 2 years, 9 months, and a few days away. Maybe it will get better. Maybe it won't. Either way, we'll deal with that issue then.

[rondinjp]

And then we just turned right back around.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/26495146/detail.html#

[daddeeo]

How do you turn a corner on a circle?

[LodgeDodger]

Amen.

. . . . . . .

[Fnemecek]

And then we just turned right back around.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/26495146/detail.html#

Hardly. Mayor Bing is trying to reposition Detroit cable access channels to give himself an upper hand in his upcoming re-election bid. President Pugh is trying to prevent that from happening.

That's politics as usual in any democratic city, anywhere in the world. It is neither an undoing of any progress that has been made nor is it the furthering of any such progress.

It's just politicians jockeying for the best position in an upcoming election.

[Fnemecek]

How do you turn a corner on a circle?

You don't. Luckily, however, Detroit is not destined to always be a circle.

[sumas]

Actually, this is one of the least bitchy threads I've read in a while. My two cents, I keep waiting for the city to notice that Detroit is far bigger than just downtown. Mostly I stay here because of the people.

I am an Eastsider, I used to be very active in loads of community groups but have seriously limited my volunteer work in the past few years due to family crisis.

An example of the people I meet. Was at the Alter/Mack Aldis. A lady gave me her cart as I went in [[rental a quarter). While in the store, a very sweet faced woman approached me and asked if she could pray for someone for me, I said yes, my husband and Mom. She said, A healing prayer? I said yes. Left the store and left the cart for someone else to use free and an older gentleman chased me down to tell me I should get my quarter back, I told him I was leaving it by the door as a pay forward type kindness, He did the God bless you, too.

After the snow, a friend came by, saw me shoveling and insisted he clean my drive, my neighbor's drives, went to another mutual friends house in Creekside then to another two houses in Islandview. I see/meet so many really great area residents.

I keep my rose colored glasses on because of little vignettes like this. I could write pages and pages about unsung but great people in our community. As a lifelong Detroiter I have had my cars stolen, houses broken into, purses stolen and the list goes on from there. It's just that the majority of people around me are so eclectic, artistic, kind, giving and all show a vested interest in our neighborhoods. The city government could collapse and I don't think we would notice, all focus is on downtown.

An elderly lady down the street walks her dog twice daily, she seems to have picked up a cat too. I derive great amusement from her walks, dog on leash and cat accompanying.

Overall I find Detroit to be filled with amazing people from all walks of life.

[fryar]

I guess one might say this thread has turned a corner.

To answer the question that started this thread: yes, Detroit is turning a corner. A lot of people throughout this city have stopped waiting for government to solve a given problem are starting to take care of things themselves.

The local government is still a tremendous disappointment. However, the next election is 2 years, 9 months, and a few days away. Maybe it will get better. Maybe it won't. Either way, we'll deal with that issue then.

I think you're right on both those points. I'm really a fan of the first. Not that I can ever manage to explain that to anyone.

For several decades now, the people and businesses in the neighborhoods have been told that we have to wait for the services that we pay for; wait until something or another happens downtown. After several decades of this strategy, all that we have is more promises and demands for more money and more patience.

To put matters quite simply, the patience of those who are paying downtown's bills is being stretched thin.

I can only imagine that this is true. It's a concern. I know that's real friggin trite to say. Sorry. Can't do more from here, on here, than tritely comment, though.

I don't think that idea invalidates Brushstart's perspective, though.

Looks OK to me. Are you wearing blue colored glasses? Try the rose ones.

You, sir/madam, deserve recognition. Very funny.