Crazier and crazier-- Congresswoman and others shot

[firstandten]

Well, I think the county sherriff is pretty ashamed of the whole thing. It is telling that the guy who holds this office would come out and say Arizona had become a mecca for bigotryand that he mentioned the talking heads in radio as the pokers/stokers.

If a high level guy says that, it means he has witnessed a number of incidents leading up to this, he has felt the potential dangers of the firebranding that went unchecked. He will also get blasted by the political establishment. Who knows, he might quit, but it is sad to see someone like that quit under undue pressure, if that is the case... I would rather have him meet with leaders and try to find solutions to that problem before it escalates.

Actually the sherriff Clarence Dupnik is one of the more rational public officials in that state. I first heard about him during the immigration law passing in the state. He call the law a national embarrassment, unecessary and unconstitutional. He said he would enforce the law because it his duty to do so but the law is morally wrong.

So the statements he made after the shooting come as no surprise, he knows his state is a mecca of bigoty from 50 years in Arizona law enforcement so I think he knows what he is talking about. Also he's been re-elected 7 times as sherriff , so I guess he's pretty popular in that county

[tponetom]

Downrivergal, maxx, jcole, Jimaz.
Your replies touched on the subject of guns
When we moved here 15 years ago, I became aware of one of the quaint, hand gun laws in Arizona.
1. Ready for this? You can carry a gun in your car, without a permit, as long as you keep it EXPOSED IN THE CAR!!!!!! [[That is correct, EXPOSED.) Do not put it in the glove compartment or under a seat. You can put it on the seat or anyplace else where it could be seen.
2.In a recent election, another law has passed that allows any citizen to purchase a handgun and carry it concealed. No permit is necessary. No background check, NO ANYTHING!!!
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2010/07/29/20100729arizona-concealed-weapons-law.html
Access the following web site and take the TEN QUESTION QUIZ REGARDING Arizona Gun Laws. It takes about three minutes.
http://crime.about.com/library/blgunquiz_az.htm?lastQuestion=9&answers=1&submit=N ext+Question+%3E%3E&ccount=7
Go figure.

[gibran]

Tiptone that is what the brave sheriff was saying and watch he is already getting lambasted...

Leaders speak and that is the nature of the business.. words are powerful.. words inspire and so why does the republican can't figure out the power when it stares them in the faces... I see no level of accountabi­lty from politician­s [[most) when their words are perceived as such..only after blowback do they retract... [[tell us what you really think)... does Sarah have direct link ...nope... that would be like saying Mein Kempt or Marx doesnt... wait I guess let me retract my own words... yes words, symbols and media can influence and inspire ...and sadly enough they can influence and make people conspire..­. this man is at first pass a troubled young man... so yes he could be influenced by symbols and hate speech... to deny it is to be in denial..

so if Sarah's self image is built up around the gun and God... her analogy about crossfires­, targets, taking aim at those who voted on Obamacare.­..has to be dealt with as real in the minds of some.

[canuck]

Actually the sherriff Clarence Dupnik is one of the more rational public officials in that state. I first heard about him during the immigration law passing in the state. He call the law a national embarrassment, unecessary and unconstitutional. He said he would enforce the law because it his duty to do so but the law is morally wrong.

So the statements he made after the shooting come as no surprise, he knows his state is a mecca of bigoty from 50 years in Arizona law enforcement so I think he knows what he is talking about. Also he's been re-elected 7 times as sherriff , so I guess he's pretty popular in that county

Yes, I remember when the law passed and there was a lot of controversy about the application of it by law enforcement. It is nice to think that there are people like him in his position who are not afraid to speak their mind.

[Dent]

I like what NoVaGuy on Yahoo had to say:

Now the truth is coming out.

Now it is becoming abundantly clear that Jared Loughner is, among other things, a pot-smoking atheist who subscribes to the kooky 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and who believes that the War on Terrorism is a form of government mind control.

In other words, it is becoming abundantly clear that Jared Loughner's political views are decidedly on the left end of the spectrum- too far left for him to accept moderate Democrat Gabrielle Giffords.

And as this is becoming more and more clear, and less and less refutable, even so we are witnessing an interesting phenomenon on the part of the liberal Yahoo! posters:

Forced to abandon their claims that Loughner is a Republican Tea Party member, they are doing damage control by changing their tune. Now they are writing a proliferation of posts that try to downplay the political aspects of Loughner's psychosis, and to attack any poster who brings up the subject. For example, consider the post of @Like a G6:

"The guy was crazy. Stop trying to push your political agendas on people. He's a cold blooded killer, and a psychopath. It has nothing to do with whatever political party he belonged to, or what religion he is, or what cereal he liked, etc...."

Yes, now that the liberals are forced to admit that Jared Loughner was one of their own, they suddenly want to stop talking about the influence of the killer's political views on his actions.

How convenient.

[East Detroit]

Dent, maybe you should consider @LikeaG6's post further.

[firstandten]

Dent

The fact that you read posts from the Yahoo board and make a determination that he is a leftist makes you about as crazy as he is. Most of the guys statements are rambling and incoherent.

However if you just want to play that game, how do you account for the statements about debt and the gold and silver standard of currency, and references to the constitution. Stuff of your typical Glen Beck show.

The real problem is why didn't this guy get mental health treatment back in high school and community college. And to think he legally purchased a gun when people in the community knew he wasn't right. He was just ignored and avoided until he did something like this. Thats the real problem not his politics.

[Chuck La Chez]

The real problem is why didn't this guy get mental health treatment back in high school and community college.

I read he had some trouble at his community college. Rather than helping him, they wouldn't let him back in after he dropped unless he had a mental health professional say he wasn't dangerous.

It sounds like they were trying to get rid of him.

[Jimaz]

It seems there are some Loughner apologists grappling with some rationalization issues here.

[barnesfoto]

It seems that 30 years after Mark David Chapman murdered John Lennon, a crazy person has no trouble getting a gun or ammo. This stuff happens every month in America, and yet the gun huggers keep parroting the phrase "An armed society is a polite society". It's high time we taxed the hell out of firearms and ammo, and required all users to have insurance policies, just like folks who operate motor vehicles.
As for the perp being a "leftist" he also accused a classmate of killing her baby. Let's call a spade a spade-the guy was bat shit crazy, and yet, somebody sold him a gun and ammo.

[Gistok]

Well I just learned something today.... "pot smoking atheists" are a danger to society.... how do I know that??? Because someone read it on an online posting board...

Really... lets wait for the facts to come in, and ignore the flame fanning of online boards....

[RaumVogel]

Well I just learned something today.... "pot smoking atheists" are a danger to society.... how do I know that??? Because someone read it on an online posting board...

Really... lets wait for the facts to come in, and ignore the flame fanning of online boards....

Or let this degrade into a "guns" thread.

[Gannon]

There is considerable evidence that this young man was merely a tool of the bad guys, too many loose ends regarding his on-line accounts for them to be credible.

It is nothing short of a miracle that this CongressPerson lived through this attack.

Convenient the judge died, he had enemies within the unseen and untraceable black ops that really run the show.

But believe what you want, get troubled and convoluted however you wish...that is all y'alls perogative.

Just know, that whatever action is taken in reaction to this event...was planned in advance, with the foreknowledge that this evil deed would make everyone merely agree that it is necessary.

Not unlike the so-called Underwear Bomber triggering the purchase of body scanners that had already been manufactured. They MAY have already been ordered, but there was likely some resistance...until that FAKE attack was staged.



You will only learn what the mainstream press wants you to know. They will only publish and broadcast that which serves the black ops behind it all.

Does anyone have confirmation that the 9-year-old girl was a child of 9/11, too?! That one flew around, but I've not bothered yet to check it out. IF so, the co-incidence would be too great to walk away from.

When the dust settles, nearly everyone will find in the shooter something they will choose to hate enough to warrant greater controls over others than would EVER be allowed under our increasingly-marginalized Constitution.


It doesn't matter that most of what y'all 'confirm' from his on-line persona could not exist within even the most schizophrenic of minds...but the buzzwords are there.

Fear the dope smokers.

Fear those who don't believe in God.

Fear those who quote the Constitution.

Fear those who have read the Communist Manifesto.

Fear those who have read Mein Kampft.

Fear those who own guns and brandish them.


Does anyone ELSE sense the obvious trend here?

Just fear it ALL...the government will take care of you.


Sincerely,
John

P.S.: Wake up. Someone is trying to pull more than the wool over your eyes.

[Gannon]

And to answer ORF's damning accusation against the Sheriff...according to many early reports there were as many as TWENTY shots fired during this incident. Plus, an early 911 call said the shooter had LEFT the scene. They supposedly interviewed a cab driver or something, and cleared him...but oddly enough it is not unlike how the FBI looked for a 'person-of-interest' after Timothy McVeigh supposedly bombed the Murrah Federal building in Oklahoma City. All of a sudden, the second person was not interesting!

Nobody reported shooting AT the shooter, and his weapon could only hold [[at best, without an obvious silly-looking extended magazine) 18 shots. The Glock 9mm was made to hold 15 plus one in the chamber, and they made some +2 magazines for it. The automatic version was available with a 30-shot clip, but it was ridiculously long...and ANYONE in the crowd would've been able to describe it.

If he had the .40 or .45 caliber version, they hold less bullets...if I'm not mistaken.

[littlebuddy]

I like how so many jump right in and KNOW all the reasons for this guy going on a killing spree. I also like how many KNOW where to place blame. I am sure you are the kind of people who don't let the facts get in the way of some good hating and bashing. If this guy is some right-wing loving nut, I will try real hard to put a nice spin on him and what he did, just like the baby-killing abortion people put a nice spin on the evil they do.

[kenp]

One of the few non Detroit threads I have read from start to finish. Notice some post have been deleted. I dont like it when people say things based on an emotion and not fact. There are a lot of hypicrates on here speaking of hate.
I hope all the injured get well and that the families and friends of the killed can find forgiviness.

[maxx]

According to Frederick Douglass in his autobiography, "My Bondage and My Freedom", content.

Douglas was not aware of Harriet Tubman and the number of runaways. And he would not have had any idea of the Stockholm syndrome or depression. He only knew his own experience.

[Gannon]

Absolutely, Kenp. Forgiveness in these circumstances must be sourced from beyond our mere human existence. Supernaturally.

[maxx]

Or let this degrade into a "guns" thread.

Why should we ignore the obvious? Loughner had a Glock semi-automatic with an extended magazine which had been outlawed under a law that the Bush admin. allowed to expire.

[Danny]

My prayers to the Arizona Congresswoman and her family. Americans: don't give in to fear, don't surrender to terrorists.


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

"Political leaders will twist your nation until there is no government." Thus said our Mayan Leaders.

Only 711 days until the end of Ka'tun.

Neda, I miss you so.

[Gannon]

Why should we ignore the obvious? Loughner had a Glock semi-automatic with an extended magazine which had been outlawed under a law that the Bush admin. allowed to expire.

There you go, Maxx.

If ONLY we could eliminate these things, then there would BE no evil.

Un-huh.


They MAY BE the only thing holding it back in this country, on a scale as large as the Nazi 'conversion and takeover' when Hitler was at the helm.


Confiscation of weapons was their very first step in making the German populace impotent against an evil leadership.

Our forefathers knew of a similar thing hundreds of years earlier, and made sure our country would never be limp against the king's wanton muscling of defenseless citizens ever again.


Guns don't kill people. Evil idiots do. Go for the triggerperson, not their tool.

[maxx]

Guns allow nuts to kill people more easily than knives. And extended magazines allow nuts to kill lots more people. Who needs an extended magazine unless they're going to war? And don't get me started on the romance of the gun that has been promulgated in this country via movies and TV.

[Gannon]

We need to return to the romance for true freedom and against tyranny, and all of the potential for such in individuals and groups.

We need to return to the romance for all in love...true romance, I'd guess. If this individual experienced true love, there would BE no room for the hatred and worse which perpetuated his being.

What tools and weapons lying around will mean nothing then.

UNTIL then, no matter what is outlawed, it has been proven that anyone devoid of love will find a way to inflict harm and terror and worse...with whatever they have at hand, including merely their hands.

Cheers

[Vox]

We need to return to the romance for true freedom and against tyranny, and all of the potential for such in individuals and groups.

We need to return to the romance for all in love...true romance, I'd guess. If this individual experienced true love, there would BE no room for the hatred and worse which perpetuated his being.

What tools and weapons lying around will mean nothing then.

UNTIL then, no matter what is outlawed, it has been proven that anyone devoid of love will find a way to inflict harm and terror and worse...with whatever they have at hand, including merely their hands.

Cheers

I could not understand what the hell you are saying here. I mean really, really incomprehensible. Try and distill your thoughts into a coherent form, please?

If you are going to say "all you need is love" then just SAY it. Christ.

[gdogslim]

Another mental patient goes off the deep end. So sad, a waste of life.

"Text gleaned from Laughner’s social network page was read aloud on local AZ news broadcasts, revealing a terribly unhinged young man who burned flags, hated GOD, liked to smoke POT wanted the US to return to the gold standard, and listed “The Communist Manifesto” and “Mein Kampf” as his favorite books — but, strangely, also “The Wizard of Oz” and “Animal Farm.” He seems more psychotic than political, but his political leanings, if he has any, are definitely to the left."
Kind of sounds like Lee Oswald and Tim McVeigh and the Ft. Hood terrorist all in one. I wonder how the democrats will now spin this into saying he was a right winger christian and now free speech and guns should be limited.

Maybe this was the easy way out for him now he doesn't have to deal with society.