Crazier and crazier-- Congresswoman and others shot

[gdogslim]

re: "Who's to blame? Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter - Yes."

Could a psychiatrist help that kind of brainwashed thinking? I don't think so.
Maybe medicating themselves daily to keep from going off the deep end.
They must be too far gone for any help, just like Jared Loughner.

I will link to the truth, but I know the left wing nutcases will deny the truth anyway.
"He did not watch TV. He disliked the news. He didn’t listen to political radio. He didn’t take sides. He wasn’t on the left. He wasn’t on the right."
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/...he-news_b48040

Why did Obama come out and totally politicize his speech with his can we all get along rhetoric?
Because his approval ratings are in the toilet and he needed a Clinton type boost?

[maxx]

Ron Paul on the Civil Rights Act
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul188.html

oladub: Who specifically was equating atheism with authoritarianism?

On many boards, any time atheism is mentioned believers point to recent authoritarians.

gdog: Why did Obama come out and totally politicize his speech with his can we all get along rhetoric?

Please point out the parts of his speech that you consider political. Do you remember Bush's firing fed. prosecutors for not going after Democrats? Now that was political.

gdog: I will link to the truth, but I know the left wing nutcases will deny the truth anyway.
"He did not watch TV. He disliked the news. He didn’t listen to political radio. He didn’t take sides. He wasn’t on the left. He wasn’t on the right."

Even if all this is true, what's wrong with asking for some civility in our public discourse? I'd like to know how many parents would want their children to do and say the things that the right has been saying and doing in the media. How many parents would want their kids to post gunsights over the addresses of kids they don't like or post targets on their enemies' photos?

[rb336]

Why did Obama come out and totally politicize his speech with his can we all get along rhetoric?
Because his approval ratings are in the toilet and he needed a Clinton type boost?

first off, how is asking for civility and getting along politicizing a speech? Yet another instance of a right-winger jumping to conclusions that when people complain about the hateful rhetoric, they are talking about them. At least they aren't too delusional to actually recognize that fact.

second, his approval ratings have gone up since the midterm

[firstandten]

We need to have a national discussion, but the topic should be how can we improve our mental health services .. how do we identify and get help for people who could be a danger to themselves and others without violating their rights.

To have the discussion of whether the kid was left leaning or right leaning is not getting to the essence of the issue. How many times have you heard of someone who said God talked to them and told them to something outragous. Do we condemn religion as a result ?

A person who is Mental ill is liable to grab at anything. This guy was all over the place with his ramblings and thoughts.

So to me the conversation should revolve around how to we get funding for better MH services

[maxx]

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/n...t/486496362610

"...Showing no sign of tamping down on divisive political rhetoric in the wake of the shooting of 20 people that left six dead in Tuscon Saturday, the Tea Party Nation group e-mailed its members Sunday warning them they would be called upon to fight leftists in the days ahead and defend their movement.,,:

[maxx]

So to me the conversation should revolve around how to we get funding for better MH services

Of course, we should have better mental health services, but how would that have helped this guy? It appears that someone would have had to cart him into a mental hospital kicking and screaming.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1...unting-license
"How dare we say that the right-wing fetishizes violence? That's so unfair!"

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/op...gman.html?_r=1
"...
Where’s that toxic rhetoric coming from? Let’s not make a false pretense of balance: it’s coming, overwhelmingly, from the right. It’s hard to imagine a Democratic member of Congress urging constituents to be “armed and dangerous” without being ostracized; but Representative Michele Bachmann, who did just that, is a rising star in the G.O.P.
And there’s a huge contrast in the media. Listen to Rachel Maddow or Keith Olbermann, and you’ll hear a lot of caustic remarks and mockery aimed at Republicans. But you won’t hear jokes about shooting government officials or beheading a journalist at The Washington Post. Listen to Glenn Beck or Bill O’Reilly, and you will..."

[firstandten]

Of course, we should have better mental health services, but how would that have helped this guy? It appears that someone would have had to cart him into a mental hospital kicking and screaming.

But maxx thats my point, we had tons of folks like the gunman who are literally walking, ticking time bombs, people who are a threat to others as well as themselves. People see the warning signs but can't have them forcibly committed due to them being adults. Even if the man's parents wanted to address their sons condition they would have a hard time being that the son was an adult.

So to me thats where the conversation should start How do you defuse a walking time bomb ? without walking over peoples rights ? I don't have the answer.

[Pam]

Why did Obama come out and totally politicize his speech

Someone tried to assassinate a politician. The situation was political before the President said anything.

[maxx]

People can be committed involuntarily, but I don't know if mental health professionals will come to your house and take someone away without their consent unless they exhibit really nutty behavior. SO then the question is why is it so easy for people to acquire guns with extended magazines?

[ejames01]

This extended mag debate is a red herring. Most of them will only add 2-3 more rounds than a standard magazine. The 33 round Glock mag is a rare exception.

People can be committed involuntarily, but I don't know if mental health professionals will come to your house and take someone away without their consent unless they exhibit really nutty behavior. SO then the question is why is it so easy for people to acquire guns with extended magazines?

[jcole]

This extended mag debate is a red herring. Most of them will only add 2-3 more rounds than a standard magazine. The 33 round Glock mag is a rare exception.

Oh, so only two or three more lives is OK, then?

[gdogslim]

"maxx: How many guns do you own? "
me: How many copies of the 'communist manifesto' and 'rules for radicals' do you own?
stabenow is a senator, russian, jewish and a socialist, are those truthful facts or is that hate speech according to a lib? They are all facts.
Do you think that being jewish is bad, being russian is bad, or being a socialist senator is bad.???
Maxx, are you one of those people who sits in their bathrobe and watch Fox or listen to Rush, just waiting for someone to say something you disagree with and report it to the White House or Stabecow????

He was a nutcase, he had wires loose in his brain, get it?
It had NOTHING to do with talk radio or political discourse as I pointed out earlier.
It had EVERYTHING to do with setting the table for polarizing conservative talk shows.
Obama's speech was TOTALLY political, as were his wife's comments about the shooting.

[townonenorth]

"maxx: How many guns do you own? "
me: How many copies of the \'communist manifesto\' and \'rules for radicals\' do you own?
stabenow is a senator, russian, jewish and a socialist, are those truthful facts or is that hate speech according to a lib? They are all facts.
Do you think that being jewish is bad, being russian is bad, or being a socialist senator is bad.???
Maxx, are you one of those people who sits in their bathrobe and watch Fox or listen to Rush, just waiting for someone to say something you disagree with and report it to the White House or Stabecow????

He was a nutcase, he had wires loose in his brain, get it?
It had NOTHING to do with talk radio or political discourse as I pointed out earlier.
It had EVERYTHING to do with setting the table for polarizing conservative talk shows.
Obama\'s speech was TOTALLY political, as were his wife\'s comments about the shooting.

Did you ever wonder whether you were on the verge of a nervous breakdown? It sure sounds like it. Why don\'t you just take a few valium and call it a day?

[Jimaz]

Dude, if you have even tight wires in your brain, you'd better get them out of there. That's not standard issue.

Attachment 8591

[oldredfordette]

Stabenow a socialist. Hilarious.

[maxx]

GDOG: stabenow is a senator, russian, jewish and a socialist, are those truthful facts or is that hate speech according to a lib?

Why do you call her a socialist? And her ethnicity and religion is relevant to what?

Obama's speech was TOTALLY political, as were his wife's comments about the shootiNG

So show me some parts of these speeches that were "political".

[oladub]

So show me some parts of these speeches that were "political".

The content of president Obama's speech was not overtly political. Most Americans could agree with the sentiments of his speech. It was a good speech which could have been given anywhere almost anytime. Although the content of his speech was not political, it's venue was political and depended on the advance work of folks like Olberman, Krugman, and much of the rest of the official MSM who did the advance work for this political event.

If it had just been about shootings and the 6 lost lives and 15 wounded , President Obama had better venues.[ Last year, there were 131 homicides in Washington, DC, in the President's backyard and 5 so far this year. Yet the President revs up Air Force One to conduct a pep rally sobathon half way across the country complete with left over campaign shirts. Why is that? The press is silent when gangs and druggies in DC do the same thing as a Tucson crazy. Clinton, after all, got such a great political boost from empathizing in Oklahoma City. Obama needed an Oklahoma City to distract from unemployment and a disasterous midterm election.

I should add that President Obama did travel to Ft. Hood and deliver a similar speech naming all the 13 dead in that tragedy. Odd that such a thing would happen with as much security as there is on an Army base.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a liberal but if I were, I would be paying attention to what this liberal has to say. He believes that Fox and the rest of the media playing a role in creating an atmosphere but doesn't cite the usual Palin bullseye as the culprit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XIAc...layer_embedded
Don't be turned off by the long hair, the guy makes good points at least from a liberal perspective.

[oldredfordette]

Why did people get so excited when thousands of people were killed in New York City and Washington on September 11? Thousands of people die every day, no need to make such a fuss, no need to politicize it.

Fox News, Sarah Palin and the whole Murdoch crew are reaping what they sowed. As for that very moving speech in Tucson, Fox News would have gone INSANE if Obama hadn't showed up to speak.

[Ravine]

Speaking of that speech, I thought it was one of President Obama's finest moments. I would like to believe that even those who differ with his political & social views would recognize that he is a great, great orator.

[gdogslim]

I would say he is a very good speech maker. If he gets off script, he rambles and sounds idiotic, imo.
What he did was appropriate and consoling people and putting things into perspective was good.
I agree with oladub mostly.
But.
Obama's injection of politics with his speech and the slant was about angry people [[republican's talk radio) and the mantra that it needs to be stopped, [[don't criticize politicians so much) and subtly implying it had something to do with this tragedy, as many on the left have disgustingly done.

-- "But at a time when our discourse has become so sharply polarized - at a time when we are far too eager to lay the blame for all that ails the world at the feet of those who think differently than we do - it's important for us to pause for a moment and make sure that we are talking with each other in a way that heals, not a way that wounds."
-- " I want our democracy to be as good as she imagined it. All of us - we should do everything we can to make sure this country lives up to our children's expectations.
-- "For those who were harmed, those who were killed - they are part of our family, an American family 300 million strong. We may not have known them personally, but we surely see ourselves in them. "

re: Why did people get so excited when thousands of people were killed in New York City and Washington on September 11?
- You mean when two skyscrapers were blown up by saudi muslim terrorists and about 3K died?
Gee I don't know, it does seems like everyone overreacted to it a little.

[maxx]

gdog:
The parts of Obama's speech that you quoted didn't mention any individual or party. He talked in general terms about the need for civil discourse. That's not a political statement; that's common sense. Maybe you disagree with that?

There are far too many people in the U.S. who think that their problems and the problems of society can be fixed with a gun. There are far too many shows on television that are about violent crime. Someone has commented that in the reality crime shows most of the people rounded up by the police are people of color. Then there are the media demogogues who demonize anyone who doesn't think as they do. A lot of people make their living by instilling and perpetuating fear. So people feel they must protect themselves and their homes. Only now the gun nuts want to be able to wear their guns anywhere as though they are going to be like Dirty Harry and mow down the bad guys without hurting innocent bystanders. They think they are great patriots and adjunct police, but they are just tragic accidents waiting to happen. As soon as you put a gun in your hands you are a potential killer, a potential criminal. I hope they teach that at gun training.

[jcole]

gdog:
The parts of Obama's speech that you quoted didn't mention any individual or party. He talked in general terms about the need for civil discourse. That's not a political statement; that's common sense. Maybe you disagree with that?

Read his posts; he obviously is not a strong believer in civil discourse

[gdogslim]

Talking about political discourse at a funeral is sad and another low point for this desperate President.

oldred: "Fox News, Sarah Palin and the whole Murdoch crew are reaping what they sowed. As for that very moving speech in Tucson, Fox News would have gone INSANE if Obama hadn't showed up to speak"
- I think you have it backwards.
It was actually Overbite, Matthews, PMSNBC Pelosi and Reid and some other left wing extremists who caused the bi polar psycho to go over the edge. with all their hate speech and arrogance.

[maxx]

One person who is forgotten is this debate about guns is a Japanese high school exchange student who was shot on his way to a Halloween party. Mr. Peirs could have just closed his door and even called the police if he thought the boy was dangerous. Instead he shot him, and the fact that he was acquitted says reams about the gun-toting society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori

[maxx]

gdog: What should he have talked about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wynn_Miller
"... “I expect he’s been on my website... He’s just repeating things I’ve had up on my site the past 11 years.”