Crazier and crazier-- Congresswoman and others shot

**gazhekwe** · January-08-11, 02:25 PM

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/rep-g...ry?id=12571452

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot in the head at point-blank rang today outside a Tucson, Ariz., grocery store where she was holding a campaign event, law enforcement sources told ABC News.

Giffords was among as many as 12 people reportedly wounded in the shooting, and according to Congressional sources, several people on the Deomcrat's staff were among the wounded. She was taken to University Medical Center, where a hospital spokesman confirmed she was alive. But the extent and seriousness of her injuries were not being released.

The gunman, said to be a man in his late teens or early 20s, was tackled by bystanders and is said to be in custody.

**Crumbled_pavement** · January-08-11, 02:29 PM

This is terrible news. This will have terrible consequences for all of us. We need to do our talking at the ballot box and not through bloodshed. This is totally inexcusable.

**gazhekwe** · January-08-11, 02:35 PM

I am afraid this is what comes of intemperate hate talk. We will have to wait and see if the gunman talks motive.

Just because it is constitutionally legal to say something doesn't mean saying it is a good and responsible thing to do.

**Big Dog** · January-08-11, 02:46 PM

I'm not surprised one bit.

**gazhekwe** · January-08-11, 02:48 PM

It isn't clear that she has died:

An earlier report from National Public Radio said Giffords had died.
"She is currently in surgery. She's alive," University Medical Center spokeswoman Darci Slaten told Reuters.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110108/..._congresswoman

.

**oldredfordette** · January-08-11, 03:25 PM

More right wing terrorism. When will Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck and John Bohner apologize and do something to stop what they have started?

**1KielsonDrive** · January-08-11, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by oldredfordette

More right wing terrorism. When will Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck and John Bohner apologize and do something to stop what they have started?

They will never stop it. It's about authoritarianism and power. Nothing else. Money is only important to them as long as it keeps them in power.

Ravine · January-08-11, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by oldredfordette

More right wing terrorism. When will Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck and John Bohner apologize and do something to stop what they have started?

Politics are politics, and crazed, murderous shootings are another thing, entirely.
If a CEO of a large business, or a right-wing loudmouth such as Rush Limbaugh, is thusly blasted, will you then apologize, or will you maintain that you were just expressing your beliefs and therefore not culpable for the mayhem?

**Johnnny5** · January-08-11, 04:20 PM

Hopefully Rep. Giffords and the surviving victims are able to pull through

.

The following is from the NPR.org main page:
by Ken Rudin

In this era of instant information and 24/7 Tweeting, it is understandable that news about today's shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords [[D-Ariz.) after an event in Tucson spread like wildfire.
What is also unsurprising, but regrettable, is that everyone is ascribing a motive for the shooting without any credible information.
The Internet and the Twitterworld have been filled with speculation on why she was shot: that she was too liberal and was shot by a Tea Party conservative. Or that she was too moderate and shot by someone on the left.
All we know is that the shooter is under custody. No statement has been released, no motive revealed. Self-anointed "journalists" should keep such opinions to themselves until we know more.

**maxx** · January-09-11, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Ravine

Politics are politics, and crazed, murderous shootings are another thing, entirely.
If a CEO of a large business, or a right-wing loudmouth such as Rush Limbaugh, is thusly blasted, will you then apologize, or will you maintain that you were just expressing your beliefs and therefore not culpable for the mayhem?

Isn't there a law against hate speech?
"...Under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, employers may sometimes be prosecuted for tolerating "hate speech" by their employees, if that speech contributes to a broader pattern of harassment resulting in a "hostile or offensive working environment" for other employees.[40][41][wiki]

This could be enlarged to include politicians and people in the media.

**Johnnny5** · January-09-11, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by maxx

Isn't there a law against hate speech?
"...Under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, employers may sometimes be prosecuted for tolerating "hate speech" by their employees, if that speech contributes to a broader pattern of harassment resulting in a "hostile or offensive working environment" for other employees.[40][41][wiki]

This could be enlarged to include politicians and people in the media.

IMO watering down our 1st Amendment rights is not an reasonable solution for dealing with the mentally ill.

**Mikeg** · January-09-11, 12:05 PM

Since so many of you want to politicize the horrific actions of a mentally ill young man, let's pour some more fuel on the fire!

We now know from his YouTube ramblings that the shooter seemed somewhat fixated on the US Constitution:

"....read the United States of America's Constitution to apprehend [sic] all of the current treasonous laws ........reading the second United States Constitution, I can't trust the current government because of the ratifications."

Because of these ramblings, some are suggesting that perhaps the shooter was influenced by Markos Moulitsas' call to "target" Congresswoman Giffords:

"we can narrow the target list by looking at those Democrats who sold out the Constitution last week. I've bolded members of the Blue Dogs for added emphasis........
Giffords, Gabrielle [[AZ-08) "

Yet the hypocrite Markos shows no shame in exploiting the shootings by tweeting "Mission Accomplished, Sarah Palin!" and linking to this blog post at FireDogLake.

A final thought occurs to me, how can we be sure that the shooter wasn't influenced by Barack Obama's comment that "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun”?

________________________________________________
"Never allow a crisis to go to waste", Rahm Emanuel

**Zacha341** · January-12-11, 09:59 PM

I hear you. The prescribed right-wing vs. left-wing hats have to be pulled out when this kind of thing happens so as make the tragic senselessness of more bearable. The party of 'self interest' is the larger picture, disquised often within the simplicity of right vs. left tennis court [[it the far easier to digest rubric, even when not fully applicable).

Originally Posted by Ravine

Politics are politics, and crazed, murderous shootings are another thing, entirely.
If a CEO of a large business, or a right-wing loudmouth such as Rush Limbaugh, is thusly blasted, will you then apologize, or will you maintain that you were just expressing your beliefs and therefore not culpable for the mayhem?

**Mikeg** · January-12-11, 10:08 PM

From tonight's post-massacre memorial-cum-pep-rally:

"But what we can’t do is use this tragedy as one more occasion to turn on one another. As we discuss these issues, let each of us do so with a good dose of humility. Rather than pointing fingers or assigning blame, let us use this occasion to expand our moral imaginations, to listen to each other more carefully, to sharpen our instincts for empathy, and remind ourselves of all the ways our hopes and dreams are bound together." - President B. H. Obama

Maybe it was after listening to the President's speech that Gistok "expanded his moral imagination" and decided to remove his childish, finger-pointing "YOU GOT PUNKED!' put-down from his post above.

**1KielsonDrive** · January-08-11, 03:37 PM

And now ignorant, hateful, politicians, talk show hosts, lobbyists and assorted nut cases who precipitated this situation will back off long enough to cover their own asses until the media furor dies down. Then they'll begin doing and saying the same things, over and over again. And they'll propose terrorism charges and the death penalty for shooting a politican and/or a member of a political party or congress, as they ignore gun and hate problems that plague our citizenry as a whole, on a day to day basis. But they'll cover and protect their own asses. It's all about the political elite.

**1KielsonDrive** · January-21-11, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

And now ignorant, hateful, politicians, talk show hosts, lobbyists and assorted nut cases who precipitated this situation will back off long enough to cover their own asses until the media furor dies down. Then they'll begin doing and saying the same things, over and over again. And they'll propose terrorism charges and the death penalty for shooting a politican and/or a member of a political party or congress, as they ignore gun and hate problems that plague our citizenry as a whole, on a day to day basis. But they'll cover and protect their own asses. It's all about the political elite.

Theeeeyyyyrreee back. Same old s+#t.

**1KielsonDrive** · January-21-11, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

Theeeeyyyyrreee back. Same old s+#t.

Now we're going to have a protracted debate about 'killing' and 'destroying'.

**Patrick** · January-08-11, 03:39 PM

Some people are already attempting to make this out to be some sort of on isolated incident. She just won a close and heated election against a tea party candidate. Someone was pissed at something. I doubt the shooter was a "fringe" character.

**tponetom** · January-08-11, 04:20 PM

A few random thoughts about the shooting of Congresswoman Giffords.

We had just sat down for Lunch. 12:30 pm. I turned on the TV for the local news..
The first chilling word that came to mind, was ‘deja’vu’, Kennedy!
Gazhekwe: If you are reading this, you may recall my words, “ Everything that goes around, comes around.”
When it happens around the world, it is a very sad occasion.
When it happens in our own background, something happens in the pit of my stomach.
You see the helicopters and the EM vehicles on TV, in the shopping center where the shooting took place. 6 dead and 8 wounded, although not confirmed , as of this moment, regarding casualties. It will vary.

Tucson is a Democratic stronghold. Giffords, a Democrat, was a shoo in for re-election.
Oracle Road and Ina Road, where the shooting took place, would be synonymous with Woodward and Six Mile.
2:05 pm. At this moment, conflicting reports keep coming in. The Head of Surgery in the Hospital, made the statement that Giffords was shot in the head, through and through, and surgery was completed. She is in ICU. Too early for any prognosis.

**gazhekwe** · January-08-11, 09:46 PM

Thank you for the on site view, Tom. It is a sickening thing for all of us. I am happy John Boehner came out with the statement that an attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve their country. It really is an attack on all of us who are responsible citizens and residents as well. At this time, we must dig for the love that is in us all, and thrust away hate.

**Downrivergal** · January-09-11, 04:15 AM

UMC is a fantastic facility, with world class physicians. It was a good thing she was transported there

**Jimaz** · January-08-11, 04:24 PM

If this really is political, Sharon "Second Amendment Remedies" Angle will have a statement to make. That ought to be interesting.

**Jimaz** · January-08-11, 04:37 PM

Jared Lee Loughner Identified As Gabrielle Giffords Shooter [[INFO)

**East Detroit** · January-08-11, 04:44 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_511433.html

Looks like Giffords was one of Palin's gunsight targets.

Ravine · January-08-11, 05:49 PM

ORF, don't get me wrong. I bear no malice toward you, and you & I are "on the same side," as re: much of this political/social stuff.
A) I view Sarah Palin as being the leading candidate for "Most Abhorrent Figure in American Politics,"
and
B) I do believe that persons-- most certainly those who, through personal position or elected office, have access to [[for want of a better term) "a broad listening audience"-- who speak & write the language of hate & intolerance bear some fractional responsibility, indirect as it may be, for acts like this one. "Contributing to a climate of," as they say.

So, I hear what you're saying, and I think you have a point, there. I just feel that the "gun-wielding maniac" type is usually motivated by inner, bent-up drives, and extremist politicians, while they should think about the "with great power comes great responsibility" POV, should not be singled out for blame, at moments such as this one; doing so doesn't do any good, for anybody, and it contributes to keeping a cycle of animus & social destruction going.