Charlie LeDuff vs. Fire Dept. Brass

**mam2009** · January-08-11, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Carey

Fred was just an ordinary firefighter during the Kilpatrick era, when, presto!, he was elevated to second deputy commissioner, in charge of buildings.
So, for all the firefighters on the forum, is Wheeler qualified?

Of course I'm interested in the qualifications of the leadership of my Fire Department. But please explain the tone your comment. Are you implying that its unusual for a firefighter to be promoted to 2nd Deputy Chief? Is there some evidence of cronyism that's been alleged regarding his promotion under KK?

**Motor City Sam** · January-08-11, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Locke09

Because it is unlikely that any money "vanished".

Two things should be considered:

1. When you talk about money being "allocated" for something you are just talking about the budget. Budgets are just plans based on projected revenue and projected expenditures [[allocations). Both change throughout the year.

2. Budgeted or allocated money is not actually sitting in an account somewhere, so there is no real paper trail for something that didn't actually happen [[hence the statement: "It's air".) As revenue comes in, someone is looking at what money is actually needed at a certain point in time, based on actual current liabilities [[contract payments, debt obligations, payroll, etc.). That's "cash flow analysis" and I understand from financial people that it's a nightmare.

If an organization is receiving less revenue than it planned on receiving, the people watching the cash flow will require you to delay certain planned expenditures, do something less costly, or eliminate some expenditures altogether. There is no money to vanish or account for because it never actually existed.

But you should be able to account for every dollar that actually was spent. I didn't see in the article that there were actual payments made to someone but the work wasn't actually done. It just talked about allocations and unfortunately not everything that is allocated gets done. Employees generally don't know that their bosses have been ordered to stop spending because there's a cash flow problem.

Locke, maybe you're right and no money really "vanished". And it would have been nice if someone from the fire department or the Mayor's office had explained it the way you did. But that story was published 11 months ago, and the admnistration hasn't commented on those issues since. Also, don't you think that other things pointed out in that article [[a 240K job that grows to 17 million, money allocated to fix the floor of a firehouse that hasn't been a firehouse in 30 years, pitiful record keeping) is more of an issue reflecting on the department brass than a firefighter lifting a wallet?

**Al Publican** · January-08-11, 10:17 PM

The Detroit Fire Dept should have brought in systems and cost analyst types years ago. I worked at fire headquarters for years. The dept was largely managed by high school graduates and some with college that came up from the ranks. Civilians with expertise in management should be brought in as fire commissioner and in other top slots.
The Research & Development section of the DFD is a fancy title for doing non-tech stuff. A real R&D expert should run that section and it doesn't have to be someone from the ranks.

How many organizations do you think operate on a strict seniority system where promotions are done by time in service and grade only? That's how it's done in the firefighting division of the DFD. No tests. No consideration for academic credentials in fire science.

Bring in someone from outside the city, if necessary, that is a management expert to run the DFD.

**Carey** · January-08-11, 11:11 PM

Mam2009: The tone I hope you read into my comments on Fred Wheeler's elevation to second deputy commissioner was skepticisn. He was driving a fire engine one day and the next day he was serving at the executive level of a large and extremely challenging department. Does he have any management training? Any specialized education? Maybe he does, but his previous role with the fire department suggests he doesn't. He did, however, have political connections. But what the hell, the longtime fire commissioner under Coleman Young, Melvin Jefferson, was never a firefighter. He ran a beauty supply firm. But he raised campaign money for Young.

**TKshreve** · January-09-11, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by Motor City Sam

Locke, maybe you're right and no money really "vanished". And it would have been nice if someone from the fire department or the Mayor's office had explained it the way you did. But that story was published 11 months ago, and the admnistration hasn't commented on those issues since. Also, don't you think that other things pointed out in that article [[a 240K job that grows to 17 million, money allocated to fix the floor of a firehouse that hasn't been a firehouse in 30 years, pitiful record keeping) is more of an issue reflecting on the department brass than a firefighter lifting a wallet?

^^^^^This^^^^^

**Locke09** · January-09-11, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by Motor City Sam

Locke, maybe you're right and no money really "vanished". And it would have been nice if someone from the fire department or the Mayor's office had explained it the way you did. But that story was published 11 months ago, and the admnistration hasn't commented on those issues since. Also, don't you think that other things pointed out in that article [[a 240K job that grows to 17 million, money allocated to fix the floor of a firehouse that hasn't been a firehouse in 30 years, pitiful record keeping) is more of an issue reflecting on the department brass than a firefighter lifting a wallet?

Without a doubt those things are more important than lifting a wallet. But those things would require the Mayor and City Council to take some responsibility for their own failings. They allow the no-bid contracts, the shoddy and unrealistic budgeting, the haphazard budget cuts that don't reflect the priorities of the citizens, the vendors ripping the city off, etc., etc.

They should all ask for their own resignations.

**gnome** · January-09-11, 06:53 AM

Isn't that the long familar: there were so many hands in the pot, we couldn't tell which one was dirty? Wasn't that Kingfisher.

**mam2009** · January-09-11, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by Carey

Mam2009: The tone I hope you read into my comments on Fred Wheeler's elevation to second deputy commissioner was skepticisn. He was driving a fire engine one day and the next day he was serving at the executive level of a large and extremely challenging department. Does he have any management training? Any specialized education? Maybe he does, but his previous role with the fire department suggests he doesn't. He did, however, have political connections. But what the hell, the longtime fire commissioner under Coleman Young, Melvin Jefferson, was never a firefighter. He ran a beauty supply firm. But he raised campaign money for Young.

I agree that there is reason for healthy skepticism given those circumstances, but I'm wondering how his performance has been since his appointment. From an outsiders perspective, my first instinct is to say that all those issues brought up by LeDuff in that February 2009 article seem to fall under Wheeler's area of responsibility. I'm wondering if maybe the Mayor doesn't hold him equally responsible for the failings of the department along with Mack & the other guy. And, if not, why not? Were those failings symptomatic of "favors" that may have been done to enrich KK & his pet contractors? After reading through the fed's indictment papers on KK & friends, it certainly is a question worth asking. And I'm asking it.

**mam2009** · January-10-11, 11:24 AM

Fire Commish on AM 1200 with Angelo Henderson right now if you're interested.

**JBMcB** · January-10-11, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

What makes you think that because one belongs to a union that they don't care?

Because it seems like the unions are aware of all of these problems, but I don't see them threatening to go on strike to resolve them. Isn't that what a union is for? They cry and moan about fixing things, but unless a benefits increase package doesn't go through they don't seem to do much about it.

To me, the mismanagement of the fire department is directly affecting the safety of it's employees. Where is the union on this topic? Why aren't they on top of this?

**pffft** · January-10-11, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Motor City Sam

So a wallet stolen by a firefighter was enough to get Mack and his deputy fired, but the article LeDuff did almost a year ago about the hundreds of thousands of dollars intended for firehouse improvements that mysteriously vanished didn't even warrant a public statement from the administration.

All anyone cares about is what he does for TV.

Buy American · January-10-11, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

Because it seems like the unions are aware of all of these problems, but I don't see them threatening to go on strike to resolve them. Isn't that what a union is for? They cry and moan about fixing things, but unless a benefits increase package doesn't go through they don't seem to do much about it.

To me, the mismanagement of the fire department is directly affecting the safety of it's employees. Where is the union on this topic? Why aren't they on top of this?

First of all, the DFD is prohibited from going out on strike due to Act 312 , compulsory arbitration of labor disputes in Police and Fire Departments.
The DFD has been working for years on one extended contract after another with no increases or better benefits packages.

And, yes, you are right, mismanagement of the Fire Department by people like thug KK's appointees and croonies have put the safety of the firefighters at risk....the unions have nothing to do with management who sets policy.

**reddog289** · January-11-11, 02:58 AM

I emailed the article to my "Gramps" up north. He replied that it sounds like the City he worked for 30 + years ago. Nothing has changed so he said.

**mam2009** · January-11-11, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

First of all, the DFD is prohibited from going out on strike due to Act 312 , compulsory arbitration of labor disputes in Police and Fire Departments.

The DFD has been working for years on one extended contract after another with no increases or better benefits packages...the unions have nothing to do with management who sets policy.

It is not entirely accurate to say that the unions have NOTHING to do with management policy decisions. What unions choose to offer, except or reject as it relates to work rules, hours, wages, etc during contract negotiations certainly influences the parameters that management has to work with when contemplating department policies and long term planning. As does the decision of the arbitrators who, more often than not, are resolving public safety union contract disputes. For example, I understand that the Fire Union has for quite some time resisted the idea of firefighters working as first responders in order to relieve some of the load that has been placed on the EMS division. This occurs in other major cities and has been shown to produce positive results in terms of response times. I don't know why the union has resisted it in Detroit and I "trust" they have valid reasons for doing so, but the point is that that is a MAJOR policy change that could be changed IF the union supported it and could have a positive effect on the Detroit's citizens and visitors if properly implemented by management. No decisions are made in a vacuum.

**Carey** · January-11-11, 03:43 PM

I think it's accurate to say the Detroit Fire Fighters Association has resisted the city making its members become first responders, and fire departments in many other big cities, and Detroit suburbs, do act as first responders. But I think it's almost obvious why the union resists: The workload of the firefighters in Detroit surpasses the workload of every major U.S. city and certainly every Detroit suburb. As long as the fire administration mothballs up to 12 working rigs every day [[for manpower and budget reasons), and the number of fires remains as it is, it's hard to see putting a lot of extra work on the Detroit firefighters, even though becoming first responders clearly would improve the quality of life in Detroit.
Plus, it's collective BARGAINING. What could the city give up to get that major change in the work environment? The city has nothing to give.

Buy American · January-11-11, 05:53 PM

Back in the day, firefighters were first responders...before EMS was even thought about.

**Wheels** · May-30-12, 09:31 AM

He's at it again!

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...ed-20120529-km

**Wesley Mouch** · May-30-12, 09:42 AM

Perhaps DFD needs an EFM.

**dmike76** · May-30-12, 09:52 AM

That Fox2 story today just made me ill. Why are they spending all that money on the new public safety HQ when they need the money for the fire stations? Who got the construction deal on that? Hmmmm.....curious. Not only that, it was shameful how the deputy commissioner handled that situation. Shameful. Can we bump up all the 2013 elections so that we can get Bing and some of the clowncil members out of there?

**SWMAP** · May-30-12, 01:41 PM

People who care should call Chief Austin and complain about both the shameful conditions that the fire fighters have to live in while on their extended shifts and about the thug behavior of Deputy Chief Wheeler [[brother of Hester Wheeler and obviously part of the friends and family crew) who is aPUBLIC SERVANT and ultimately responsible to the people of this city. Austin's direct line is 313/596-2901.

Also, call the Mayor's office and complain: 224-3600 [[let us know if the phones just ring and ring).

**SWMAP** · May-30-12, 01:44 PM

Addendum: the Mayor's operator told me that Wheeler reacted as he did because LeDuff had already been told that "they were working on" the problem. I have been told that before. A year ago I was in a meeting with the head of DPL and he said then that "they were working" on the streetlights on West Grand Blvd. and would have them on by September. And they are not on. ""Working on" something is urban talk for opening the folder.

**Wheels** · May-30-12, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

Addendum: the Mayor's operator told me that Wheeler reacted as he did because LeDuff had already been told that "they were working on" the problem. I have been told that before. A year ago I was in a meeting with the head of DPL and he said then that "they were working" on the streetlights on West Grand Blvd. and would have them on by September. And they are not on. ""Working on" something is urban talk for opening the folder.

I went to Heny Ford Hospital last week and noticed the steet lights were on on the Blvd. from 96 to the Hospital.

During the day!LOL

**compn** · May-30-12, 03:49 PM

slap! take that microphone!

so what are the odds of charlie getting punched on camera by an official?

**Adamkir** · May-30-12, 03:56 PM

Wheelers inability to speak when spoken to or questioned shows clearly how unqualified he is to hold a nominated office. Violent reactions are committed by people who are either clueless and ignorant feeling or criminal. He is a louse and needs to exit stage right along with the rest of the family and friends. .. The scumbag pisses me off. . I hate reporters but compared to this Wheeler guy Charlie is like a friend. .