If Tom Gores buys Pistons next week, will they play in Detroit?

**BrushStart** · January-07-11, 01:02 PM

So, looks like Gores might be the top bidder, and given that LBP stated Gores personally informed him that if he buys the team, the Pistons would stay in Auburn Hills, does this mean no new Wing-Pistons stadium downtown? Will the Pistons be forever doomed to a life in OC? Sorry, I'm really not trying to stir the pot, but just thinking that this will really put a damper on the plan to develop large swaths of downtown that had been slated to be home to a new dual-purpose arena, and potentially a large shopping district.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...e-likely-buyer

**esp1986** · January-07-11, 01:12 PM

They will someday... it is entirely possible that Gores and Ilitch collaborate on a new building with a plan to open it in 10 years. PSE has said all along that they planned to replace the Palace by 2020 when it would be 30 years old. I say the chance is about 65/35 that they play downtown again in the next 10-15 years. Gores is not the type to spend his own money on an arena like Davidson would have, and he would never be able to get financing for it. If any arena will be built these days, it will likely be a joint arena and Ilitch would sweeten the deal to be in the city. I just don't see Ilitch getting financing for a new building without luring the Pistons in... this could take years to play out.

**BrushStart** · January-07-11, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by esp1986

They will someday... it is entirely possible that Gores and Ilitch collaborate on a new building with a plan to open it in 10 years. PSE has said all along that they planned to replace the Palace by 2020 when it would be 30 years old. I say the chance is about 65/35 that they play downtown again in the next 10-15 years. Gores is not the type to spend his own money on an arena like Davidson would have, and he would never be able to get financing for it. If any arena will be built these days, it will likely be a joint arena and Ilitch would sweeten the deal to be in the city. I just don't see Ilitch getting financing for a new building without luring the Pistons in... this could take years to play out.

That was what I thought as well, but that would mean Illitch has to wait another 10+ years to build a new arena for the Wings, something I doubt will happen. I'm not sure JLA has that much left in her without some seriously expensive upgrades, and Ilitch is not going to dump money into a place he does not own. If Ilitch goes forward and builds a single purpose stadium as planned for the Wings, where does that leave Gores in 10 years? Does he plan to build a new NBA stadium in Detroit, or does he just push the envelope with the life-span of the Palace? Or, does he build an entirely new venue in Aurburn Hills? The stars are not aligning as I had hoped...

**sirrealone** · January-07-11, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

...does he just push the envelope with the life-span of the Palace?

I simply don't buy the fact that the Palace will be ready for the wrecking ball anytime soon. There are other arenas that were built around the same time that are targets for replacement, but those are mostly because the arena was built barebones [[the Palace wasn't), doesn't have many luxury suites [[the Palace does), is not profitable for one reason or another [[the Palace is), can't support other events [[the Palace is still a premier destination for concerts, can support hockey, soccer and other events), has horrible concourse areas [[the Palace is just fine), or is lacking in other amenities [[the Palace, as far as I know, has plenty of bathrooms, dining, and drinking options).

The biggest complaint I have about the Palace is the seats are an ugly color and could be a little more comfortable. Still, replacing 20,000 seats is a lot cheaper than replacing the entire building.

Simply put, I see no reason that Gores or anybody else would be chomping at the bit. As long as he kept investing money in it to keep it fresh, to keep the plumbing, electrical, HVAC and other infrastructure intact, the Palace should easily provide a great place for basketball, concerts, and other events.

As far as what this means to Ilitch, well, that's really none of Gores' concern. The Illitch's are resourceful so I have no doubt that they'll come up with a solution that benefits them and gives them what they want and need to remain competitive in the NHL.

**BrushStart** · January-07-11, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by sirrealone

I simply don't buy the fact that the Palace will be ready for the wrecking ball anytime soon. There are other arenas that were built around the same time that are targets for replacement, but those are mostly because the arena was built barebones [[the Palace wasn't), doesn't have many luxury suites [[the Palace does), is not profitable for one reason or another [[the Palace is), can't support other events [[the Palace is still a premier destination for concerts, can support hockey, soccer and other events), has horrible concourse areas [[the Palace is just fine), or is lacking in other amenities [[the Palace, as far as I know, has plenty of bathrooms, dining, and drinking options).

The biggest complaint I have about the Palace is the seats are an ugly color and could be a little more comfortable. Still, replacing 20,000 seats is a lot cheaper than replacing the entire building.

Simply put, I see no reason that Gores or anybody else would be chomping at the bit. As long as he kept investing money in it to keep it fresh, to keep the plumbing, electrical, HVAC and other infrastructure intact, the Palace should easily provide a great place for basketball, concerts, and other events.

As far as what this means to Ilitch, well, that's really none of Gores' concern. The Illitch's are resourceful so I have no doubt that they'll come up with a solution that benefits them and gives them what they want and need to remain competitive in the NHL.

I understand what you're saying about the Palace. It certainly isn't outmoded by today's standards. However, you are ignoring the big financial picture. Any new stadium built will likely require taxpayer funding- it's not what people want to hear, but that doesn't make it untrue. Ilitch likely has enough clout to build a new arena for the Wings with or without owning the Pistons, so the question becomes: If Gores buys the team knowing Ilitch is going to suck up whatever taxpayer money there is available for a Wings arena, what is he going to do in 10 years when the Palace needs replacing? Public financing will probably be out of the question, and Gores does not seem like the type of guy who will want to go it alone. There are a number of possibilities in play here, and you can bet Ilitch and Gores are the kind of guys who don't take a breath without thinking about the consequences five, ten, fifteen years down the line.

bartock · January-07-11, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

I understand what you're saying about the Palace. It certainly isn't outmoded by today's standards. However, you are ignoring the big financial picture. Any new stadium built will likely require taxpayer funding- it's not what people want to hear, but that doesn't make it untrue. Ilitch likely has enough clout to build a new arena for the Wings with or without owning the Pistons, so the question becomes: If Gores buys the team knowing Ilitch is going to suck up whatever taxpayer money there is available for a Wings arena, what is he going to do in 10 years when the Palace needs replacing? Public financing will probably be out of the question, and Gores does not seem like the type of guy who will want to go it alone. There are a number of possibilities in play here, and you can bet Ilitch and Gores are the kind of guys who don't take a breath without thinking about the consequences five, ten, fifteen years down the line.

Seems that it might be possible for Ilitch to build his hockey arena now, with a deal in place with Gores to move from Auburn Hills in, say, 2020? The Pistons get 9 more years at the Palace, and the Wings have their new home in 3 years.

I think the Palace will be OK as a sports and entertainment venue in the long run anyway, with or without the Pistons.

**iheartthed** · January-07-11, 02:16 PM

If the Ilitches are not the successful bidders then it's hard to envision the Pistons moving back to Detroit. If anything I would say it's slightly more likely that the Red Wings leave the city and share an arena on the Palace property, even though that's probably not very favorable amongst the Olympia officials.

**R8RBOB** · January-07-11, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

If the Ilitches are not the successful bidders then it's hard to envision the Pistons moving back to Detroit. If anything I would say it's slightly more likely that the Red Wings leave the city and share an arena on the Palace property, even though that's probably not very favorable amongst the Olympia officials.

The Wings were never going to leave Detroit even temporary to play at the Palace.

**BrushStart** · January-07-11, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

If the Ilitches are not the successful bidders then it's hard to envision the Pistons moving back to Detroit. If anything I would say it's slightly more likely that the Red Wings leave the city and share an arena on the Palace property, even though that's probably not very favorable amongst the Olympia officials.

That would be a massive regression and a major blow to downtown's comeback. There would be a domino effect of spin-off businesses shuttering, as well as the huge psychological effect it would have on efforts to rebuild the city. I would hope Ilitch would not do something so draconian given all of the money he has invested in Foxtown and Motor City Casino, all of which benefit from the Wings playing downtown.

**R8RBOB** · January-07-11, 02:22 PM

I would love the Pistons to play in Detroit but I'm one of those folks who long longer cares. If the new owner of the Pistons wish to keep them out in the wilderness then that is his right. Since he from Flint and lives in Beverly Hills...California that is, he have no loyalty towards Detroit so the Pistons will remain in Auburn Hills.

**Fnemecek** · January-07-11, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

So, looks like Gores might be the top bidder, and given that LBP stated Gores personally informed him that if he buys the team, the Pistons would stay in Auburn Hills, does this mean no new Wing-Pistons stadium downtown?

That deal is almost certainly dead. A couple of questions, though, do come to mind.

Wasn't there some guy who predicted that LBP would find another buyer for the Pistons? One who would commit to keeping the Pistons in Auburn Hills?

And wasn't that person mocked on this forum for making said prediction?

**iheartthed** · January-07-11, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

That deal is almost certainly dead. A couple of questions, though, do come to mind.

Wasn't there some guy who predicted that LBP would find another buyer for the Pistons? One who would commit to keeping the Pistons in Auburn Hills?

And wasn't that person mocked on this forum for making said prediction?

I believe Tom Gores made a play for the Pistons even before Ilitch came public with his aspirations to own them. So this isn't that surprising. It probably would be more surprising for a single person to own three major league sports teams... In the same market.

That said, it's still not 100% that the Pistons will remain in Auburn Hills. I could envision some plausible scenarios [[but unlikely, I admit) that would bring them back to Detroit even if Ilitch isn't the owner.

**DLife** · January-07-11, 04:31 PM

I wonder if Illitch will look to buy Joe Louis from the city and renovate. A new stadium is out of the question if it's just for hockey.

**Gistok** · January-07-11, 04:49 PM

OK.... if someone else buys the Pistons/Palace, et al....

Why on earth would Mike Ilitch want to move out to the distant Palace for a few year [[while a new arena were being built downtown), if he doesn't own the Palace?

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!!

If he does build anew downtown... then he'll just stay at the Joe until it is done, where he's already getting the ticket fees and concessions. Why would he want to share that with a new Palace owner, when he can retain all the profits alone from the Joe??

As for a rebuild of the Joe... I highly doubt it... no room for any JLA expansion... and it will hinder the possibility for future Cobo Expansion.

**iheartthed** · January-07-11, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

OK.... if someone else buys the Pistons/Palace, et al....

Why on earth would Mike Ilitch want to move out to the distant Palace for a few year [[while a new arena were being built downtown), if he doesn't own the Palace?

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!!

If he does build anew downtown... then he'll just stay at the Joe until it is done, where he's already getting the ticket fees and concessions. Why would he want to share that with a new Palace owner, when he can retain all the profits alone from the Joe??

As for a rebuild of the Joe... I highly doubt it... no room for any JLA expansion... and it will hinder the possibility for future Cobo Expansion.

Without the Pistons under the same roof as the Wings it will be extremely hard for him to secure private financing to build the stadium. The Ilitches will need the private financing even if they were to get partial public financing, but in this economic climate it's a pipe dream to think that they would be able to secure public financing. Then there are the regional economic indicators: how does he convince a private financier to contribute funds to building a new arena in a region that is posting the steepest income drops in America? How do you finance a major league arena in the only American state to have contracted in population over the past decade? Securing the financing under those conditions would probably be enough of a stretch with the promise of revenue streams from two different professional sports organizations, let alone just one.

So with all of this in mind... I find it hard to envision a new Red Wings arena that is not shared with the Pistons. If it does happen any time soon, it will be financed significantly by the Ilitches themselves.

**GOAT** · January-07-11, 06:16 PM

The Pistons won't come to downtown anytime soon. Why would they when they have a perfectly good place to play right now? Sure its older but still one of the better venues around. It is a goldmine for concerts and other crap. I don't like it, I don't like the look of it and I hate where it is at but the place makes money.

With the above why bother spending more money for another place toplay? Ilitch doesn't have the $$$ to build an arena on his own; the city and state can't afford it.

It is all wishful thinking that isn't going to happen any time soon.

**Patrick** · January-09-11, 06:25 PM

The Auburn Hills Pistons

**Hypestyles** · January-09-11, 06:45 PM

if the team stays in auburn hills, I will likely keep my pace of attending games... rarely..

but in any case, I guess they won't be leaving the state..

**Supersport** · January-09-11, 11:31 PM

Here is my take on the deal.

Ilitch never wanted to own an nba team, he simply wanted an entertainment monopoly and a dual sport arena built in Detroit. Gore has expressed interest in owning his own nba team, though hasn't publicly stated an interest in entering the entertainment business. I think Gore may in fact buy the pistons and entertainment arm, but it'll be short lived. Gore will maintain ownership of the pistons, the sell palace sports to Ilitch. As part of the agreement, Gore and Ilitch will build a new state of the art facility in Detroit. What ultimately happens with the palace is anybody's guess, but it is not state of the art and is a nightmare in regards to traffic. If one truly wants a state of the art facility, having the first mass transit line in Detroit stop there should be in the cards. That's my 2 cents.

**Red Devil** · January-10-11, 01:16 AM

Be careful what you wish for LBP. Word on the street is that Gores is actually planning to move the franchise from Auburn Hills to his hometown AND rename it as the Flint Tropics

**gumby** · January-10-11, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Red Devil

Be careful what you wish for LBP. Word on the street is that Gores is actually planning to move the franchise from Auburn Hills to his hometown AND rename it as the Flint Tropics

Maybe he could play for them and also wrestle a bear during halftime as well. lol.

Tom Gores is from Flint just like Michael Moore is from Flint. Gores grew up in the small town of Genesee which is like 15 to 20 mins away from Flint.

**iheartthed** · January-27-11, 11:30 AM

Pistons' value falls from $479M to $360M

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110126/SPORTS0102/101260439/Forbes--Pistons’-value-falls-from-$479M-to-$360M#ixzz1CFokYjKU

Detroit, valued by Forbes at $479 million last year, is reportedly worth 25 percent less this year [[$360 million) and finished with the NBA's second-worst dip, behind a LeBron James-less franchise that's lost 18 straight games.

The difference in deprecation between the two teams: a single percentage point.

"The past year for the Pistons has been brutal," Forbes senior editor Kurt Badenhausen told The Detroit News. "The team isn't playing well, attendance has fallen off a cliff and sponsorship revenues are down."

Cleveland, in Forbes' team values released Wednesday, has the dubious honor of being the league's biggest value loser [[$476 million to $355 million) since 1998, the year the publication started analyzing the value of franchises.

Among all NBA teams, the Pistons dropped from No. 4 to No. 13 in value in one year. The Knicks have the highest value, according to Forbes, at $655 million.

http://detnews.com/article/20110126/SPORTS0102/101260439/Forbes--Pistons%E2%80%99-value-falls-from-$479M-to-$360M

I guess owning the stadium and the parking lot ain't all it's cracked up to be. The Knicks share their stadium with several other major league franchises and their stadium doesn't have any dedicated parking whatsoever.

**Hypestyles** · January-27-11, 11:37 AM

hopefully Ilitch can come back into the bidding mix now that the "real" price has been revealed..

**rjk** · January-27-11, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I guess owning the stadium and the parking lot ain't all it's cracked up to be. The Knicks share their stadium with several other major league franchises and their stadium doesn't have any dedicated parking whatsoever.

The Pistons would be worth even less without the things you mentioned.

The Knicks are at the top because of the massive market that is NY city.
A big market trumps everything when pricing a team.

**iheartthed** · January-27-11, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by rjk

The Pistons would be worth even less without the things you mentioned.

The Knicks are at the top because of the massive market that is NY city.
A big market trumps everything when pricing a team.

Not really. The New Jersey Nets, who play in the same market as the Knicks, aren't even in the top 20... And are worth less than the Pistons. In fact, the Nets are worth less than the Oklahoma City Thunder, which is a market that is a fraction of the size of New York [[and a fraction the size of Detroit for that matter).

On the other hand, the Green Bay Packers, who don't even play in a major city, are a pretty valuable franchise [[albeit a different sport).