DPSchools: 40,000 kids to get laptops from stimulus funds

[Detroitnerd]

Yeah, whatever. You can always find answers on the Internet. They just aren't always right. That's what reference libraries are for. Scholarly publications vetted by professionals. But that's OK. Throw 'em a Netbook and hope they are more "engaged." We love books but, you know, kids are just not so interested in them so let's just plug 'em in and hope they get the right answer some of the time. Pfffttt ...

[DetroitTeacher]

If I had fucking books that would be lovely. Would you care to buy me some? I don't so I have to make do. I also expose the kids to scholarly journals and teach them how to find valid info. Know of what you speak before you open your mouth.

[English]

DetroitFats, I'm doing great. My fall classes were just fine, and my first book will be out late this year, along with several articles. I miss working with kids so much, but hope to get into a Detroit school next fall for a year or more of intensive fieldwork and action research. Also gearing up to write my first grant as PI this summer, and I'm dreaming big! So I can't complain.

Detroitnerd, I generally enjoy your posts here, but on this one, I just can't agree with most of your arguments. For instance, I can't wait until I see my sorority sister who's a postdoc in neuroscience to let her know that her PI and her lab has it all wrong when it comes to "neurological process of learning." Brick-and-mortar bookstores aren't going out of business, and academic libraries aren't bleeding to death because people aren't READING TEXTS. There were complaints about our literacy levels BEFORE the Internet -- ever read the report from the Reagan era, "A Nation at Risk?" The post office isn't in trouble because people aren't WRITING TEXTS. Before email, there were MANY articles about the decline of letter writing because of the [[gasp!) invention of the telephone. People are just reading and writing texts online much more, and eventually, most texts will be digital instead of paper-based.

Speaking of which, DetroitTeacher and DetroitFats, one of my favorite applications for English teachers is Kindle for Mac or PC. You can download the application for free, and get a TON of the classics absolutely free. I've downloaded Paine's *Common Sense,* Plato's *Republic*, and many others that I use and reference in my college teaching. There are also some of the familiar high school level classics, including Gulliver's Travels. There are no more missing pages or scribbled out texts. You can highlight and annotate within the texts. You can print out relevant sections, but once you get used to reading online, you find out that you don't want to waste the paper. There's no note-taking function yet, but if Adobe is any indication, it's coming.

Also, there's a great promotion going on with Kaplan. They are giving away over 100 free ebooks between now and January 10:

http://www.freekaplanebooks.com/

I've heard that the Kindle versions will be available soon, but I'm not sure when. If you PM me, I'll send some recommendations.

[English]

If I had fucking books that would be lovely. Would you care to buy me some? I don't so I have to make do. I also expose the kids to scholarly journals and teach them how to find valid info. Know of what you speak before you open your mouth.

DT, just ignore it. We know you're an awesome teacher. Most naysayers have zero interest in coming into schools, let alone actually working with kids and teenagers.

[Detroitnerd]

Can I note the irony of millions being spent on computers and then bemoaning the lack of books in the library? Or the lack of instruments in the music room? Or the lack of equipment in the shop? Or the lack of supplies in the art room? Until you get to a certain grade or age, I still think those are much more nourishing than a computer for a pupil.

Anyway, don't feel threatened by little ol' me. I'm probably the last holdout in this regard. The idea that young pupils can be educated with such rudimentary things as chalk and paper is apparently as controversial as the autism-immunization correlation. So what do you care if, like, 1 percent of the population doesn't agree? Big freakin' deal. Have fun with your gizmos.

[DetroitTeacher]

English and Ravine: I hear ya and thanks. I am about done with this fool. I am a die-hard print book fan and have not done the eBooks thing [[I'm holding out). I will have to look into the app that you mentioned because we just don't have the books for the kids to read and if I have netbooks, then that will solve that problem, won't it? I do require my students to read the newspaper each day. Most of them do it online [[on their itty bitty phones). I buy a print copy each morning on my way in to work. I was trying to make the point that you made about books not being printed as much as before but Nerd decided I'm an idiot and know not of what I speak.

A few of my kids have read this thread [[we were talking about it in class) and they are disheartened to think that people don't think that they are capable of learning by using technology. They asked me how I did research for my college papers. I told them I did it online when the net became available. I can access thousands of journals that most libraries don't have in their collections. My students told me that the thing that helped them most with reading the Crucible was taking a virtual field trip to Salem and being able to see and read from first-hand accounts. We then visited McCarthyism sites and compared the two. We also looked at some blogs about terrorism and threw that into the mix. It helped to bring it all together and clarified some things for the kids. I can't do this stuff without technology, short of taking the kids to the various places and doing tons of legwork and spending more money for my job than I already do. With the netbooks, we'll have the world at our fingertips instantaneously. We can explore ANY topic, not just what I have in the building.

With the netbooks the kids can do inquiry based lessons and learn about things that might not be covered in class, but is of high interest to them, due to time constraints. I'd be doing them a dis-service by not actively engaging them in the technology. I've been doing it by using ONE computer and an LCD projector that is dying. With the netbooks they can get a closer look at things and read and do activities at their own pace [[didn't you hate it when the prof talked too fast or flipped the powerpoint before you had a chance to write notes??) This eliminates all of that and allows for my special needs kids to get the materials in many different ways.

[Ravine]

Detroitnerd, while I admit to being somewhat paternalistic, at times, I yam what I yam [["that which I am,") and I'm gonna go ahead and say that I think you have expressed your view quite adequately enough and this is probably a good time to rest your case.

[DetroitTeacher]

Nerd: I am NOT threatened by you or the likes of you. Never will be. You are an idiot and I am not threatened by idiots or ignorant people. When you are willing to put your money where your mouth is, get back to me.

[13074Glenfield]

I think that the reason this thread has gone crazy is that people are talking about different things. Some are talking about whether or not the purchase of these computers was the best choice given the other needs of DPS. Others are talking about whether or not they will help the average DPS student given all the other barriers to education that he or she faces. And others are talking about whether computers help students learn better in a general context. That's cool, but when a person makes a point on one of these topics and then someone responds with an answer that relates to a different topic, it , makes no sense. Add in the fact that some folks teach and, understandably, take the criticism personally, plus the race factor and it's no wonder things get overheated and personal.

[13074Glenfield]

Nerd: I am NOT threatened by you or the likes of you. Never will be. You are an idiot and I am not threatened by idiots or ignorant people. Take your fat white ass and go sit down somewhere. When you are willing to put your money where your mouth is, get back to me.

For example.......

[DetroitTeacher]

Thanks Glenfield for your clarification of things. I guess if some folks would have read the entire thread, they would have seen that I agreed that the cash could have been better spent on other things. But...it is what it is. I am trying to explain the advantages of the netbooks and am getting told that I am doing my kids a dis-service by letting a kid who's blind use a computer to do his work. Shit, that's all the kid has. Ever try to write and read when you can't see? It's a bit difficult. If this tool will help the kid [[who is extremely bright) learn, then I say I'm all for it.

[Detroitnerd]

When you are willing to put your money where your mouth is, get back to me.

What, aren't my Detroit taxes enough? At least I get free insults for my money...

[13074Glenfield]

DT- Your efforts are sincerely appreciated. I don't live in Detroit but I do live in a large city and am familiar with the challenges that face large urban school districts across the country. I don't begrudge you the tools but bemoan the culture that gives you so many students coming from messed up homes where learning is about the lowest priority. You have your work cut out for you and I don't know how you face it without becoming totally discouraged.

[DetroitTeacher]

Glenfield: I look at my kids every day in class...that is how I do it.

[13074Glenfield]

Glenfield: I look at my kids every day in class...that is how I do it.

Very cool. Thanks.

[maxx]

Can I note the irony of millions being spent on computers and then bemoaning the lack of books in the library? Or the lack of instruments in the music room? Or the lack of equipment in the shop? Or the lack of supplies in the art room? Until you get to a certain grade or age, I still think those are much more nourishing than a computer for a pupil.

Anyway, don't feel threatened by little ol' me. I'm probably the last holdout in this regard. The idea that young pupils can be educated with such rudimentary things as chalk and paper is apparently as controversial as the autism-immunization correlation. So what do you care if, like, 1 percent of the population doesn't agree? Big freakin' deal. Have fun with your gizmos.

Early el kids definitely need hands on experience in writing and art. I could never understand the computerized finger painting, but then I didn't like finger-painting anyway. And a lot of first and second graders need solid objects to add and subtract with until they get those concepts solid.
I can see the value of computers in the higher grades, third grade and above although I don't know that they will help kids learn how to multiply or divide. I once saw a program for algebra where the numbers moved around as the problem was being solved, but I thought it was confusing. I prefer to see all steps in an algebra problem listed one under the other.

Detroit teacher: What's your policy on the use of urban slang in student essays?

[DetroitTeacher]

Maxx: I couldn't agree more. I teach 11th grade and am trying to prepare them for college/work. Computers are a must for my kids.

[Pingu]

When I was a kid we didn't have laptops. Yet somehow we put a man on the moon. Maybe the money would have been better spent on rolls of toilet paper.

[DetroitTeacher]

Maxx: It all depends on what type of essay and what type of slang [[some is worse/better than others). I tell the kids that if they are writing, most of the population should be able to understand what they are trying to say. I explain that if they are going to use hood for neighborhood then they need to write it like this 'hood. I don't let them use derogatory remarks about anyone [[hoe, the N word, Biatch, etc). In formal writing, they can't use any slang. i do have them rewrite Hamlet [[or whatever play we happen to be reading, depending on grade level) in their language, complete with urban slang. They also have to perform it using that language [[again, no derogatory words). They have a blast and really have to analyze what they are reading. They have to look deeper than just the words on the page and they have to comprehend what they are reading. I do this in groups with each group taking a scene from an Act and then cohesively putting it all together. They work hard and really come up with some good stuff. I also let them do graffiti art to express their understanding [[no spray paint because of the fumes but we do use chalk and other mediums). They have to verbally explain how their art relates to what we read. I try to bring things that they are familiar with into the classroom. I also do a "what would the costumes look like if this were a modern play" activity. They use magazines and a computer program [[or if they can draw, they draw) to come up with costumes for characters. I try to not keep it so assembly line and more interactive. This also allows my slower learners a chance to bring something substantive to the table.

[donpablo]

I think you're missing the point. It's not that Detroit students don't DESERVE anything. I just don't believe that computers help people learn. A minority opinion, I grant you, but not a referendum on the value of Detroit students. And certainly not a reason to fly off the handle and start telling people to fuck off.

Have a nice day.

I was going to let this just roll but after reading your posts i realized your the type of person i love telling to "fuck off"

rolling your eyes while telling me to "have a nice day" tells me what a fake ass you are.

[Jimaz]

I do have them rewrite Hamlet [[or whatever play we happen to be reading, depending on grade level) in their language, complete with urban slang. They also have to perform it using that language [[again, no derogatory words). They have a blast and really have to analyze what they are reading....

That's a brilliant strategy. Sincerely. The best way to learn is to adopt the role of a teacher. They're placed in the position of a teacher [[or at least a translator) teaching their peers. There's a viral potential right there.

[DetroitTeacher]

Thanks, Jimaz! The kids really do love it. We did it with the Crucible this year [[but I have to say that Abigail did get called a Hoe on more than one occasion...but what could I do, she was one). In the end, they explained the girls' lunacy and crazy behavior on "mushrooms" they found in the forest! I thought it was brilliant and they made that wonderful conclusion by doing some research on what might cause hallucination-like behavior [[that the girls might have had access to back then...what could have been in the forest during their dance with Tituba...they added the magical part on their own). It was completely off topic from the scene we were doing but I thought it was a nice added touch [[I think they had Goody Nurse explain the mushroom theory when she was supposed to blame it on puberty, although that did come up)

[Jimaz]

Thanks, Jimaz!

You're most welcome.

Maybe they could use these laptops to publish their interpretations on the web. You can't do that with a paper book. That would make some interesting reading!

[DetroitTeacher]

I've thought about video possibility and digital storytelling. The only issue with video is that I would beed to get parental permission and send all of that downtown via a media release. I've tried to do that before and it didn't work out so swell.

[TKshreve]

When I was a kid we didn't have laptops. Yet somehow we put a man on the moon. Maybe the money would have been better spent on rolls of toilet paper.

I kinda like this post!

Having a computer to perform all your daily mathematical computations is exactly what undereducated students do not need. It is this kind of exception that has pushed our education standards far behind other countries throughout the world. We've put many GOF elbow grease and rudimentary learning systems out to pasture in the name of "technology".

I second the thoughts of 13074Glenfield and the fella/fellette who said that the money should not have come from "economic stimulus" funds. I find that to be quite ironic. DPS students do deserve to have computers, but at what expense? Toilet paper.......... maybe [[but not really). Fundamental skills in life such as math, reading and your basic old school research skills in the library........... hell no! I have to agree with Dnerd that many of the things that grade school students research on the internet can mislead them in very wrong directions. If the internet becomes their sole research utensil for all classwork and papers, we are headed down a shaky path IMO.

Society should carefully address what has happened to our media over the last 30 years or so. Between PR and special interests, it is tough to deduce what is fact anymore. In fact, children today are forging through some of the worst slant ever published........ and in an information society as well. Slippery slope indeed.