DPSchools: 40,000 kids to get laptops from stimulus funds

[RickBeall]

That's a great idea! Have the president make a speech.

That's real breakthrough thinking!

[Wintersmommy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/05/ed...e&ref=homepage

The New York City public schools have ordered more than 2,000 iPads, for $1.3 million; 300 went to Kingsbridge International High School in the Bronx, or enough for all 23 teachers and half of the students to use at the same time.
More than 200 Chicago public schools applied for 23 district-financed iPad grants totaling $450,000. The Virginia Department of Education is overseeing a $150,000 iPad initiative that has replaced history and Advanced Placement biology textbooks at 11 schools. And six middle schools in four California cities [[San Francisco, Long Beach, Fresno and Riverside) are teaching the first iPad-only algebra course, developed by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt.
Even kindergartners are getting their hands on iPads. Pinnacle Peak School in Scottsdale, Ariz., converted an empty classroom into a lab with 36 iPads — named the iMaginarium — that has become the centerpiece of the school because, as the principal put it, “of all the devices out there, the iPad has the most star power with kids.”

[13074Glenfield]

“There is very little evidence that kids learn more, faster or better by using these machines,” said Larry Cuban, a professor emeritus of education at Stanford University, who believes that the money would be better spent to recruit, train and retain teachers. “IPads are marvelous tools to engage kids, but then the novelty wears off and you get into hard-core issues of teaching and learning.”

Winters mommy, I think that this quote from the NYT article that you cited begins to get at the point I am making.

RickBeall, at no point did I suggest that the president make a speech. The problem in the black community is way too deep for superficial moves like that or like these net books. I am talking about is using every moment of his presidency to influence the cultural values of that community. Right now, he's way too focused on sports. He needs to drop the calls to the Eagles coach, the visits with sports teams, the hoops games with his friends. It all sends exactly the wrong message. Instead, he and all black leaders need to focus on convincing their young men that it is their duty to stay with their families. Will it work? Frankly, I doubt it. But black leaders must at least make the effort.

[Detroitnerd]

These gizmos will not help with the three R's. I consider myself very tech-savvy and I didn't start using computers until high school. The learning curve for computers simply isn't as steep as some people think. Shit, they'll probably learn half that shit on their cell phones by the time they're in junior high. Teach them to use that "computer" in their skulls first.

[RickBeall]

I agree with you more than I disagree with you 13074Glenfield.

[13074Glenfield]

These gizmos will not help with the three R's. I consider myself very tech-savvy and I didn't start using computers until high school. The learning curve for computers simply isn't as steep as some people think. Shit, they'll probably learn half that shit on their cell phones by the time they're in junior high. Teach them to use that "computer" in their skulls first.

Bravo! The NY Times article also quotes folks whose opinion is that the iPads are a waste of money for the schools because there are smart phones that will do what they are looking to do for seveal hundred dollars a unit less.

[TKshreve]

No, that's not what I would expect; that's why I didn't say so.

Once more: Detroit needs to get to a point where its public-school grads possess adequate verbal & math skills. Failing that, exposure to computer technology will do them no good whatsoever, and the only world in which they will be able to compete is one populated by dolts.
Which, I suppose, means that their best bet is to stay in Detroit.

Ravine - You're spot on here. What everyone seems to ignore is if all the lights went off tomorrow, there would be those who could get by and those who could not [[considering basic educational skills). What this "stimulus" does is simply create more people who would "not get by". So instead of learning long hand arithmetic and proper grammar, we can put that aside for now. Or forever is what's shaping up. Add to this the possiblity of theft, destruction or obsolescence of these devices and I don't like the appropriation of funds at all. Are the schools still missing toilet paper and such? Maybe they can use........ nevermind.

Really like the stairs analogy too Ravine. POOF! lol

[DetroitTeacher]

Are the schools still missing toilet paper and such? Maybe they can use........ nevermind.

Really like the stairs analogy too Ravine. POOF! lol

Yep...there is no tissue in the bathrooms. I have a "restroom bag" that I use as my pass for the girls. It has anything they might need in it. I buy this stuff myself, just for the kids. I have spotted tissue in the bathrooms from time to time and usually it's wadded up and in the sink. Same thing with the brown towel like rolls of whatever tree bark that stuff is. There has never been soap, however. I have hand sanitizer in my bag.

I do agree that the cash could have been spent on more necessities and less on the tech BUT it was earmarked for technology...so here we go.

[RickBeall]

Say 13074Glenfield., Bill Cosby did what you suggested, and he was just about kicked out of the black community. He had to backpedal. That was about 5 years ago.

[Ravine]

I have found myself to be feeling as though I am representing a point of view, and a "side," which I do not represent and with which I do not wish to be associated.
That is the result of my own actions, of course.
This is not a retraction, or a "back-pedaling;" let's just say that I thought I should sharpen my pencil to the finest point possible, so as to be utterly clear as to my meaning and intent.

I understand that the money was designated for a certain use. That being the case, I'm all for using it in that way. I just think it's a shame, to have so much money available, and still have so many basic problems un-addressed and basic needs un-met. But, the deal is as the deal was, so what can ya do? Buy the computers. I suppose the best way to express my discontent is to say, "Yeah, stimulus money bought a bunch of expensive equipment, but DetroitTeacher still supplies the Cottonelle, and 50% of the high school grads will have atrociously sub-standard verbal & math skills."

Fryar's response, however, has me befuddled, a bit. "Critical thinking skills," at least in my view, are far ahead of the basic skills to which I referred and, I will add, are skills for which I took the responsibility of teaching to my two sons.
I used the "change at the drive-thru window" example to make a point. I am aware of how that process is executed. My point is that if one is unable to semi-immediately deduce whether or not they were grossly over-charged for their Salty McGreaseburger with Processed Cheese Food Product, that means they are arithmetically crippled and will, for the rest of their lives, absolutely require a calculator in order to perform basic numeric operations of any kind.
And, basic verbal skills. Sure, sure, I realize that folks can get by, and even prosper, without them. You can hire someone to write a term paper for you. [[*ahem* You would be surprised by how much money can be made in that field.) But, why should it be that way? Can a school system entirely blame that weakness on their inability to afford certain supplies? For that matter, can a student
really blame the school?

Following up on TKshreve's on-target "if all the lights went off tomorrow" point, yeah, what if? I really don't think folks from my sons' age-group ever think about how completely they depend on electrical power. Being able to do yeah'bout everything on a computer is fine, as long as you can turn it on.

But, I digress. Fryar wrote something about "baby steps." Well, that's what I'm talking about, too. I realize that today's grads need to have some fluency & facility with IT-related matters, but I will not back down from my assertion that if you graduate students who can design a basic web-page [[just an example!! only an example!!) but will be lucky to score 370 on the SAT, you have failed the same students who you "passed."

And, the "you" I mean is not the teachers, actually. It's the system and, worst of all, the parents.
My youngest son was having some problems with math, in about fifth grade. I didn't worry about why, or try to figure out who was or wasn't doing their job. I took over the job, and if I hadn't been able to do it myself, I would have found someone who could.

I just think it is wrong, wrong, wrong to fuck around with computers when you have not even versed your students in the basic, most rudimentary elements of a useful education. Some of you almost make it sound as though it is the computer skills that are essential, and that the basic verbal & arithmetical skills are something a person can easily get by without having, or can fake their way through.
That is a disability. It's like someone who could learn to walk being stuck in a wheelchair. We look out for folks with those, right? We have sidewalk ramps for wheelchair users, but we graduate students who are academically crippled.

[DetroitTeacher]

Ravine: I was just thinking back to my son's school years [[he's 24). I never allowed him to get on the computer at home and he didn't have tons of fancy video game systems [[he did have them, but he wasn't allowed to just sit and veg in front of them) at his disposal and he didn't have texting options on his cell phone until he turned 18. My kid was outside playing. He was delivering papers [[sans calculator) and collecting the money for them. He was out mowing lawns and shoveling snow [[he'd feel sorry for the older folks and just do it for free if they couldn't afford it). He can add in his head, do division and multiply. I took him to the library when he had to do research and he had to use BOOKS and hard copy materials [[I had to teach him that, the schools relied on computers for research)! His verbal skills are such that he could hold an intelligent conversation with any adult on just about any topic. His handwriting is atrocious [[even printing). His teachers demanded that he type all of his work. I got him a typewriter!

He was pissed for the longest time but he now thanks me. He can add up a grocery bill in his head [[he's been doing that since he was little, though), he has learned to be tech savvy, and he's never gotten jipped when being handed change [[people used to try when he was younger but he'd correct them). He still goes to the library and he knows how to find what he's looking for.

I really think it's up to the parents to start early and to not let their kids have texting options in the 3rd grade, to not let them sit in front of video games, and not let them have a Facebook page at age 8 [[yes, I've seen that). I do, however, think that tech has a place IN the classroom. I have many [[I repeat MANY...about 1/2) students who have learning disabilities [[some very severe). Having access to a computer in the classroom will benefit them. Since kids today are so into technology [[I don't have one kid who doesn't have a cell phone with texting and most have internet access on their phones...but can't get on it at school because of the blockers we have and password restrictions to the net). Kids respond to technology. I can do some pretty neat stuff with technology and have the kids do some pretty neat stuff with technology. It might just provide a spark for more than a few kids who would have been previously "vacant" during a lesson. Kids still need to know the basics, even with technology [[well, in my class). I don't allow text-ese, even in the most informal of writing assignments. I can access the ACT and SAT websites to do practice tests with them, I can access grammar sites and have them do drills [[even though that isn't the way kids are learning today). Computers allow for instant feedback for the kids. It takes me more than a few minutes to grade papers for all 5 classes. Computers can do it in a matter of seconds and I can get the results immediately. Computers aren't teaching the kids...they are just tools to assist me in the classroom. Technology has to be used as a tool...and just a tool.

Sorry for the long-winded post. Somtimes, I just get going and can't stop.

[Ravine]

Hey, don't apologize; we ain't doing sound-bites, here.
Besides, like I'm going to dog anyone for long-windedness?

I see what you're saying, and I'm heartened by it. I was never against the classrooms getting computers, which is part of the reason why I thought I should hyper-clarify my point of view.

It's just that seeing the glaring deficiencies in the education of grads from the DPS drives me nuts. I even see it among my co-workers, many of whom are not all that much younger than me.
I have heard debates about how many states are in the union [[and some shocking ideas about which are, and are not, states,) and have seen graffiti in the rest-rooms where folks have used a felt-tip to work out addition "problems" such as: 400+120.

Still, if teachers such as yourself can maximize the advantages of this new situation, I'm certainly all for that.

[13074Glenfield]

Say 13074Glenfield., Bill Cosby did what you suggested, and he was just about kicked out of the black community. He had to backpedal. That was about 5 years ago.

I was thinking the same thing as I commented here. That's why I'm not very optimistic that things will improve. How do you change the values of an entire culture? Honestly, I have no idea. I don't think flashing lights and an internet connection is going to do the trick, though.

[English]

One of the things that I hate most is the way that some posters caricaturize black culture -- even some black posters. There's also the assumption that everyone from Detroit Public Schools is dumber than everyone from any Detroit suburb, doesn't know as much, and will always make a worse employee. People say this with a straight face, assume that all of us are the same way, and then find those Detroit kids who don't fit the stereotypes incomprehensible.

So no matter how hard a kid from Detroit works, no matter what they accomplish, no matter what their ethics, they can never be redeemed, can they? In this region, we begin with negative, low expectations, and that's what we get. We feel good about ourselves when we're proven right about "those people." As a matter of fact, we define ourselves by the city, using it as a metric. At least our kids aren't in DPS, isn't that right?

Anyway, that's why I stepped away yesterday. I was going to start flaming individual posters, but I promised this spring that I wouldn't go that route any more.

I agree that DPS students need the basic necessities like toilet paper, and soap, but why on earth are computers and basic hygiene mutually exclusive? It's a "both-and," not a "neither-nor."

The notion that DPS students in grades 6-12 need to be at or above grade level before they are provided computer access is ludicrous on its face, defies every study, statistic, and fact, and is just illogical. How many adults, or for that matter, suburban schoolchildren, are going to sit down with a book, paper, and pencil, and do their "readin', 'ritin', and 'rithmetic'" -- in 2011?

Are suburban children in grades 6-12, in 2011, outside of AP and honors classes, doing all of their work by hand? Did they begin doing it by hand?

The answer is an emphatic NO. The "cream of the crop" in suburban schools have the very latest technology and have had it from the earliest grades. I defer to DT's knowledge about what's going on in her school, but I know what's going on nationally, and I have been on the ground in districts all over the state for the past 5 years. In fact, there has been an increased emphasis on getting MORE tech into the hands of children EARLIER, especially with the launch of the iPad. The fields of early childhood education and special ed are going nuts over the pedagogical possibilities of touch tech, and I know that ALL of my professor friends across fields with very young children [[not some, but ALL) who have iPads have downloaded baby, toddler, and preschooler educational games. They may not have a television in their home, but even the one I'd consider hippies Tweet about their kid doing math on their smartphones.

The best way to hobble Detroit middle and high school students [[those who are being targeted by this grant) is to deny them access to technology. I could go on and on about this. I can post studies. I can meet you for coffee and talk about this. But on this issue, you guys couldn't be more wrong.

As for wasting time on the computers, that is where a competent network admin comes in. You couldn't access every site from DPS when I was working there, and I doubt you can now. Besides, if the kids are savvy enough to start hacking the server, and I found it out, I would challenge them to start developing iPad/iPhone apps. You never know when you're teaching the next Mark Zuckerberg.

[Detroitnerd]

Are suburban children in grades 6-12, in 2011, outside of AP and honors classes, doing all of their work by hand? Did they begin doing it by hand?

I did.

The "cream of the crop" in suburban schools have the very latest technology and have had it from the earliest grades.

I think that is a waste of money too.

Then again, I know I'm an outlier as always ...

[Ravine]

English: Good Grief, woman, I hope you aren't reading all of that into my comments... although I suspect that you are.
I hope not, but I am sticking with my semi-new policy on DY:
Make a statement, be willing to issue one clarification if doing so seems, to me, to be absolutely necessary, and leave it at that.

I will re-state two things, very briefly:

Nothing I wrote has anything to do with the suburbs. I don't live in the suburbs. My sons were not educated in the suburbs.

I am not opposed to the DPS students having this stuff. I am opposed to DPS graduating students who are academically lame in the most basic, truly essential areas.

[Ravine]

Also, a point separate from the ones I was pressing, but in response to your most recent post:

You mentioned some "caricaturizing of black culture," here, and in other threads. Are you quite certain that you are not hyper-sensitively inferring some of that?

[English]

Of course. All black people are hypersensitive and paranoid! It's in our DNA, passed down from generation to generation. The ones who weren't didn't make it to '65 [[either 19-- or 18--) or off the ships.

Yes, I am FAR too sensitive, and serious, and humorless, which makes me a lightening rod on DYes at times. I'm trying to lighten up, but for that to happen, I'm going to need a choo-choo train to nowhere, Detroit's murder rate to fall to zero, and for the 2020 census count to be 1.5 million.

No, seriously, when can we just applaud -- why can't we just look at this one thing in isolation and say, "Bobb, Obama, you've done a good thing, and this will benefit some kid somewhere in the D"? We don't celebrate our victories at all in this city. Yes, I'm not completely stupid, a lot of what goes on in DPS stinks and stinks badly, but this doesn't. It is "full of win."

Computers in 2011 are a Very. Good. Thing. I wanted computers 10-12 years ago, and my uncle even drove in from Chicago with a couple of old Apple desktops for my classroom tech station to help me with it. I thought I'd ODed and gone to Teacher Heaven when I learned about the existence of Ye Olde Laptop Cart at my first metro Detroit suburban high school after existing at Cass Tech with ONE OUTDATED OUTLET [[sorry, still annoyed about that) in the entire classroom. But the idea of having a laptop cart whenever and however I wanted to use it? Inconceivable.

I get that the kids need basic skills. But the great thing about laptops is that it makes it easier to differentiate instruction. You can easily give a struggling student mini-lessons without shuffling papers or going through a lot of hassle. While one group is working on a high-interest reading or math skills website or software program, you can be working with other students. 5-6 years ago, in order to have one-on-one writing conferences with students in some classes, I would have to schedule the lab or a documentary viewing so the kids were occupied. And that's one of a thousand ways that I could have changed my pedagogy...

[donpablo]

I'm going to be blunt. Fuck anybody who thinks DPS kids shouldnt get this technology. I have 3 Children in DPS and they deserve this technology. There are thousands of kids who do well in DPS and deserve this technolgy. THere are thousands of Kids who don't do well and deserve this technology.

Anyone arguing DPS kids shouldnt get netbooks for any reason should be ashamed of themselves. What does a net book cost in bulk $200? Thats a drop in the bucket.

[TKshreve]

Anyone arguing DPS kids shouldnt get netbooks for any reason should be ashamed of themselves. What does a net book cost in bulk $200? Thats a drop in the bucket.

In bulk it costs:

Detroit Public Schools will spend $49 million in federal money to push technology in the district, including distributing 40,000 new laptop computers to students in grades 6-12 for use in class, as well as more than 5,000 new desktop computers.

And they still can not afford toilet paper. Maybe this will help you see the debate at hand. No one is saying they do not deserve the computers/net books. Many are saying that they should have focused $$$ on what is MOST lacking in the system now [[like toilet paper and basic reading/writing/math skills). The fact that the money could ONLY be used for computers makes conversation just about pointless, but a society can dream right?

[reddog289]

As a suburban school district employee.I see how money gets spent and the pros and cons about it. It kinda saddens me to think that any public school should have to do without. We all pay taxes, Lots of us play the numbers which they say "Support Education". The fact that kids in Detroit are getting laptops sounds like a good idea to me. The thought of those laptops going unused, stolen, and otherwise M.I.A. sticks out in my mind. While computers and the interet are here and ain't going away, The fact of it is, One should be able to figure out basic math, english and the other skills learned by us, our parents, and grandparents who grew up without the web in there life.
I have no doubt that alot of these laptops will go by the wayside, Yet for the ones that don't, I myself hope they make a difference.My girls are alot smarter then me with computers.That is what they grew up on.If it were up to me the kids would get mobile units with web access as they all seem to know about cell phones.

[fryar]

Hey Ravine, I think we're basically on the same page. It's just that you said they would do no good whatsoever. Didn't mean to call you out on that too harshly, though; sorry. For my part, I may likewise now be seen as having a more extreme position than I actually have.

Can I just say that, like a newcomer to this board, I was shocked and appalled to read that DetroitTeacher's kids don't get a chalkboard. Little did I realize his/her kids have no TP. It would be sensitive and respectful, to English's point, to say that these are not precisely the makings of a situation conducive to success. But I also really enjoy comical understatement.

On the other hand, I also think it might be appropriate to say what is this, Sarajevo Public Schools, ca. 1994?

In an unrelated snark, the TP situation sounds like the hallmark of an insufficiently litigious society. Until we get that issue addressed, however, I for one would like a TP bailout.

FWIW, betcha they have TP in prison. Those guys don't need to sue for shitt they're entitled to, because it is essential to maintaining some sort of dignity as human beings. Others do it for them. Not kids though. Damn ne'er-do-wells.

[Ravine]

*sigh*
Well, I don't truly believe that rules are made to be broken, but since I'm breaking one of my own, breaking it is probably a good idea.

Some of the comments have made it utterly clear that, if nothing else [[and I don't think "nothing else" is the case, here,) the new equipment will go a very long way toward making the teachers' jobs easier. I would be all for that even if there was no attached advantage for the students, but in this instance, there is a by-extension advantage for the students, so that's a 2-for-2. Good deal.

I guess the truth is that my anguished ravings about the deficiency in verbal & math skills-- an impassioned rant which I stand behind-- are close to irrelevant, in this thread, since A) the stimulus money was delivered for a specific purpose, period, and that's just the way it is, and B) see paragraph, above.

Finally, anyone who believes that my remarks have anything to do with race and/or the suburbs is projecting that inference onto them. Anyone who has pulled up a comfy chair and subjected themselves to the laborious process of reading my seemingly-endless short essays already knows that I am 100% willing to say exactly what I mean, and that if I didn't say it, I probably didn't mean it.

Can I go, now?

[Zacha341]

I hear you Eng. A friend told me that all of the netbooks have MS Office suite loaded on them. This is a crucial business and communications software package frequently used in most business, work and post-secondary educational settings. HS students exposed to and trained in MS Word, Powerpoint and Excel will have an advantage in work and college where these software packages are used. That for one is a positive!

...Computers in 2011 are a Very. Good. Thing.... I get that the kids need basic skills. But the great thing about laptops is that it makes it easier to differentiate instruction. You can easily give a struggling student mini-lessons without shuffling papers or going through a lot of hassle. While one group is working on a high-interest reading or math skills website or software program, you can be working with other students. 5-6 years ago, in order to have one-on-one writing conferences with students in some classes, I would have to schedule the lab or a documentary viewing so the kids were occupied. And that's one of a thousand ways that I could have changed my pedagogy...

[Zacha341]

Yes, the if one is arguing that the non-performing students justifies that the ones who ARE should not get the technology? Well... I have a problem with that... withstanding the funding of the computers. They are separate arguments to some extent. It also needs to be noted that part of the money is going for 'desktops', which are stand alone computer CPU with monitors [[not just the netbooks). I gather these will replace many of the out of date units that many teachers/ students are struggling with.

I'm going to be blunt. Fuck anybody who thinks DPS kids shouldnt get this technology. I have 3 Children in DPS and they deserve this technology. There are thousands of kids who do well in DPS and deserve this technolgy. THere are thousands of Kids who don't do well and deserve this technology.

Anyone arguing DPS kids shouldnt get netbooks for any reason should be ashamed of themselves. What does a net book cost in bulk $200? Thats a drop in the bucket.