Leaving East English Village with sadness and affection

[kryptonite]

this is no consolation, but a friend's relative moved to Pittsburgh from MI. He and the new wife had unpleasant experiences in their Pittsburgh neighborhood [[nothing life threatening) and finally moved out west where they have started a family in a smaller city. They did not feel that their Pittsburgh neighborhood was safe enough to raise children in. At least not in their opinion.

Still, it is unpleasant to hear such horror stories about Detroit and to see it in print in another city. We are used to such stories here but it is a real black eye for Detroit when such things are reported elsewhere.

However, it is not Detroit's problem that they were underwater on the mortgage and had to do a short sale. That problem is ubiquitous in the US, and even in Europe.

Sure, I fully understand leaving Detroit because of crime though. But I have a friend that left Chicago after after being beaten severely by a small group of men that specifically told her they were going to kill her, all in front of her apartment building. another friend moved from NYC to southern California partly because of crime. Another friend left San Francisco to return to Detroit after a terrible experience withn violent crime, a life-threatening scenario.

Still, I guess we will take another journalistic slap in the face with the story published in Pittsburgh. He had a right to publish the story following such experiences. Hopefully he has a better quality of life where he now lives.

[gdogslim]

"Ben Schmitt, a former Free Press reporter who specialized in crime,"
He had to know the area he lived in was very borderline with high rates of crime and drugs in the area near Harvard & Warren near Finnney. It can be scary sometimes with gunshots heard at night.

My parents lived on Kensington in EEV and moved in the 60's to the Burbs because they saw the writing on the wall raising kids was not the most ideal long term place. And for the money they probably have the most beautiful houses in the country.

[n7hn]

His job is to make a story interesting and sensational. Im not saying events didnt happen, but Im sure the most was made of it as well.
Personally Im underwater too and I find I was much more willing to accept trouble in the area when i had equity as I knew I had the choice to leave or stay. Now that the equity is gone and Im $100,000 in the hole, i tend to feel more trapped. Things that happen NOW bother me more as I know I have to stay and put up with them for a long while to come. Im sure Im not alone in the way that set of circumstance can change ones outlook Pittsburg is no better off, good luck to them.

[PaulieG63]

Just reading that is dispiriting. Detroit broke him.

I have to admit to being a bit dispirited myself. As someone who is leaving the "sunny south" to reside in Detroit, this is quite unsettling. Not so much because of another family being forced to flee Detroit due to crime, but because this occurred in East English Village, an area that is consistently mentioned as a stable and sought after neighborhood for those considering a move into the city. A place, in all honesty, I am in fact considering...perhaps, foolishly?
Stirred, but not shaken in Greenwood [[South Carolina.)

[Plains_Thunder]

Just curious...isn't the address of Cadieux and Mack in Grosse Point Park and not in the city limits of Detroit.

[bailey]

Just curious...isn't the address of Cadieux and Mack in Grosse Point Park and not in the city limits of Detroit.

No. Mack is the border. Above Mack you're in detroit, below mack and you're in GPP..or GPC [[depending on which side of Cadieux you're on).

[Plains_Thunder]

Gotcha, thanks.

[fryar]

I have to admit to being a bit dispirited myself. As someone who is leaving the "sunny south" to reside in Detroit, this is quite unsettling. Not so much because of another family being forced to flee Detroit due to crime, but because this occurred in East English Village, an area that is consistently mentioned as a stable and sought after neighborhood for those considering a move into the city. A place, in all honesty, I am in fact considering...perhaps, foolishly?
Stirred, but not shaken in Greenwood [[South Carolina.)

Paulie, are you from Detroit or familiar with it? My move will be to the Midtown Manhattan of Detroit, downtown/the CBD, which so far seems like the best-served and most urban/high-risey/yadda yadda of Detroit's neighborhoods. I would also consider Midtown/New Center along Woodward Ave because it has the university and the major cultural institutions. You won't catch me in any of the other neighborhoods, however, I'll leave the "urban frontiersmanship" to those of heartier stock.

Seriously, if you like or are ok with high-rise living, go downtown, these places usually have concierges that anyone who would want to steal your TV has to get past first. If that's not news cause you're an old Detroiter, my apologies for not being more attentive.

[fryar]

I have to admit to being a bit dispirited myself. As someone who is leaving the "sunny south" to reside in Detroit, this is quite unsettling. Not so much because of another family being forced to flee Detroit due to crime, but because this occurred in East English Village, an area that is consistently mentioned as a stable and sought after neighborhood for those considering a move into the city. A place, in all honesty, I am in fact considering...perhaps, foolishly?
Stirred, but not shaken in Greenwood [[South Carolina.)

What's your impetus for moving to Detroit?

[PaulieG63]

What's your impetus for moving to Detroit?

I was born, raised and spent a large part of my life in Detroit's suburbs. I will always call Detroit home...a city and place I have a passion for. I currently reside in South Carolina, somewhere I should have left years ago. I am the proverbial round peg living in a sqaure hole so to speak...my thoughts, beliefs and values differ markedly from most of the folks down here.

As for why Detroit...I have been aware for some time now that "the city" was the place for me...the only question was which one. I am idealalistc enough to believe I can make a difference in Detroit. As I mentioned earlier, I have a passion for the place that runs deep. I'm also struck by the beautiful architecture of Detroit's homes, the unbelieveable craftsmanship and the even more unbelieveable prices.
The idea of being able to own one of these homes free and clear is enticing!
EEV certainly qualifies on the home front...and seems to have quite an amazing homeowners association [[nothing I've found on the net compares.) BUT...
I'm not necassarily idealalistic enough to sign on for combat duty in Beruit either [[please don't think I'm reffering to EEV as Beruit...although, as I wrote earlier, the article does give one pause.)

Perhaps a condo or apartment in Downtown/Midtown is the way to go...that lifestyle is incedibly appealing! I was just hoping to be able to own a home free and clear. Obviously, I need to continue my reasearch...I'm planning a visit sometime in the next 2-3 months.

Paul

[Vic_doucette]

My wife and I left Morningside -- just a few blocks from EEV -- five years ago for many of the same reasons. It was the right thing for us to do.

[DetBill]

Reading these stories is very difficult, I feel very bad for all of these people who have tried to live in Detroit and rightly, could not stand the experience. My only recommendation to anyone thinking to live in the city is try to find an area with low crime and reasonable living standards, I have lived in Lafayette Park now for close to 18 years, the last five at 1300. I have never had any crime incident whatsoever, I am safe, my car is safe [[ all guarded) and the neighbors are great people and the closeness to downtown and walkability to events etc very good. It is not cheap to live there but by most suburban standards I have seen it is certainly no more expensive than average housing prices in middle class suburbs and materially cheaper than the affluent suburbs and the pricier part of Royal Oak. If you want to live in Detroit you must do your homework, It was the same in 1988 and its the same today . There are some units in 1300 that have gone back to building [[ basically foreclosed) that are being sold now, The building will take very cheap purchase equities.. A real bargain for those interested. Alot of bang for the buck, safety, great places. great views, good security, doorman, workout and bicycle rooms, package handling clerk, and many other amenities you would pay a ton for in other places.

[PaulieG63]

DETBILL,

I have heard alot of nice things about Lafayette Park in general and 1300 specifically. The thing that has always kinda scarred me off about the later was the association fees. I have to admit, however, that I don't know what is included in those fees and what percentage [[if any?) is tax deductible when itemizing.
Could you possibly shed some light on the fees and your own sense of value/getting your moneys worth.

Paul

PS I agree, there seems to be some especially good buys right now at 1300...quite enticing, really.

[Hermod]

DETBILL,

I have heard alot of nice things about Lafayette Park in general and 1300 specifically. The thing that has always kinda scarred me off about the later was the association fees. I have to admit, however, that I don't know what is included in those fees and what percentage [[if any?) is tax deductible when itemizing.
Could you possibly shed some light on the fees and your own sense of value/getting your moneys worth.

Paul

PS I agree, there seems to be some especially good buys right now at 1300...quite enticing, really.

Association fees are not tax deductible. Only interest on the mortgage and the city property taxes on the property are deductible.

Association fees may or may not include the following:

Water and sewer bills [[if the association has a single meter)
Cable TV [[if the association has negotiated a single contract)
Exterior maintenance
Lawn, shrubbery, and tree care
Snow removal
Maintenance of common facilities [[rec room, tennis courts, swimming pool)

[Zacha341]

1300 is very, very nice, but but VERY EXPENSIVE! I have a couple of senior friends that live there being fortunate enough financially to do so. Very nice and secure building. Nice layout and wonderful views if floor to ceiling windows is your thing [[not mine).

DETBILL,

I have heard alot of nice things about Lafayette Park in general and 1300 specifically. The thing that has always kinda scarred me off about the later was the association fees. I have to admit, however, that I don't know what is included in those fees and what percentage [[if any?) is tax deductible when itemizing.
Could you possibly shed some light on the fees and your own sense of value/getting your moneys worth.

Paul

PS I agree, there seems to be some especially good buys right now at 1300...quite enticing, really.

[DetroitPole]

The article is heartbreaking, but I do think most people with experience will agree that East English Village is not a proverbial Beruit, and is much safer than the rest of the city. That being said, crime is much higher than in the suburbs and needless to say would be a difficult place to raise a family [[though not impossible, there are many families in EEV). Living in EEV is probably comparable to living in another big city neighborhood. As one poster pointed out, the writer moved not to Pittsburgh proper but to a Pittsburgh suburb.
Also it sounds like a lot of the problems he faced was tied to really bad neighbors. Which sadly happens quite a lot in the city.

[MikeM]

http://spotcrime.com/mi/detroit/east+english+village

[BrushStart]

http://spotcrime.com/mi/detroit/east+english+village

That looks rough until you compare it to other cities. Here's Grand Rapids, which is a very safe city, and even it looks like hell: http://www.crimemapping.com/map.aspx...d-e672f79e4931

I guess one positive for Detroit is that it looks like it has far less assaults, at least in downtown and Midtown.

[DetroitPole]

http://spotcrime.com/mi/detroit/east+english+village

Not that it makes a difference, but for what its worth, those boundaries are wrong.

EEV is bordered by Harper, Outer Dr./Whittier, Mack, and Cadieux.

[stasu1213]

Sorry DN, but you're mixing urban flight with suburban cooperation. They're somewhat mutually exclusive.... although perhaps urban flight may be causing upticks in crime in nearby communities. Either that or the lowlifes are moving farther out from the inner city neighborhoods, and on past 8 Mile.

I live in SCS... and a month ago I had 6 SCS police cars in the street in front of my house at 2:15AM. It seems like there was a car parked across the street with 3 people inside. Someone called police, they were interrogated, and then arrested. Within 20 minutes a tow truck pulled up and took the car away. So in 25 minutes [[2:15 AM - 2:40AM) the problem was taken care of completely.

In Detroit... the police response time is what is causing more and more Detroiters to leave the city. Fnemecek keeps harping [[justifiably) on this topic repeatedly. You want suburban cooperation? When the criminals move their operations to the burbs... the faster response time provides a much greater chance of them getting caught.

Granted, there are many regional issues that need cooperation between the city and surrounding communities... but a lack of Detroit police response time does not appear to be one of them... that is a problem [[like the Detroit Public Schools) that the city needs to fix itself... or get state or federal funding for more officers.

I think that former Chief Evans was beginning to implement heavy handed tactics such as this inside of Detroit. Dave Bing had fired him for different reasons but the heavy handed approach to crime lightened. Though Detroit is a much bigger city, the word has to get out that when the police do come to the rescue some heads are going to roll. Criminal on the other side of the city would think twice. I believe that the police should question one, two or more men standing on the corner or in the middle of the street at a certain time of night. Put the fear of God and the police in individuals

[Al Publican]

The rebirth of a small business class would be a good start. I keep saying, show me a city that has dying small business class and I will show you a city that is on the skids.

Of course, a cultural revolution would have to begin with one's ownbadself and family. The culture of "hanging out" often means a short life span, jail, or a burden to one's family and society.

In the course of 15 years, I watched cities in Vietnam like Saigon and Danang go from looking hopeless to thriving places with fast growing middle classes. I've been to VN nine times since '94 when I first went back with a group of war vets.

Two things happened in Vietnam for change to occur: the authoritarian government permitted capitalism to be practiced and the families of Vietnam jumped at the chance to to open a small business, some of which are now large thriving businesses. Detroit was once a city of small business that lined every major thoroughfare, along with corner stores that seemed to be around every second or third block when I was a kid.

The corner store in America may be a dead concept, but the small business isn't. At the risk of sounding like Mao here, no small business culture, no prosperity.

[Pickford-Bentler]

The rebirth of a small business class would be a good start. I keep saying, show me a city that has dying small business class and I will show you a city that is on the skids.

Of course, a cultural revolution would have to begin with one's ownbadself and family. The culture of "hanging out" often means a short life span, jail, or a burden to one's family and society.

In the course of 15 years, I watched cities in Vietnam like Saigon and Danang go from looking hopeless to thriving places with fast growing middle classes. I've been to VN nine times since '94 when I first went back with a group of war vets.

Two things happened in Vietnam for change to occur: the authoritarian government permitted capitalism to be practiced and the families of Vietnam jumped at the chance to to open a small business, some of which are now large thriving businesses. Detroit was once a city of small business that lined every major thoroughfare, along with corner stores that seemed to be around every second or third block when I was a kid.

The corner store in America may be a dead concept, but the small business isn't. At the risk of sounding like Mao here, no small business culture, no prosperity.

When I visit Detroit, the only places I see a small business "dynamic" are on Vernor Highway, in SW and Warren Avenue, by Dearborn.

[barnesfoto]

The game is rigged. And THAT is un-American as hell.

Bingo. Unfortunately, some folks, like the guys who rented the house to sell drugs, figured that out long ago.