DPS says teacher tried to pawn school laptop

**Gannon** · January-01-11, 01:12 PM

I only joined this conversation because so many were intent on crucifying her without all the data.

I consistently AGREED that IF she did it for illegal gain she should receive the worst of penalties, along with billboards in front of every school using language AND graphics to display to the city what happens to people who steal from the largess known as the Detroit Public School system.

I am astounded at the teachers comments about the previous technology 'discards', but NOT at the reaction of them...that they cannot sell or even get RID of it all without becoming not unlike the worst of those who acquire goods unethically. I applaud English and DetroitTeacher...and anyone I've missed.

I have the SAME dilemma with all the hifi gear which was 'loaned' to me as a journalist, which I've tried to return but was rebuffed. I have two extraordinary systems that may be old technology, but continue to serve me well. I consider them underhanded bribes...because the manufacturers had something to gain by saying I had 'em in my reference system.

But that is not the case with these laptops...and I've gone on another tangent.

It is part of the wash of technology changes which have helped mountain our landfills with toxicity. New and improved, indeed.

So, I still say that if it was shear stupidity, and the unions have some weight in her keeping her job...THEN she should be employed completely in giving seminars to everyone about the legality of assuming transfer of asset title and the full ramifications of taking something which belongs to another. She should serve her 'time' in this form of penance, advertising the results of ignorance. [[that ALONG with being forced to inventory everything, anyone who's ever been a part of an inventory procedure knows it is a modern version of purgatory)

I only wanted some reserve in throwing rocks at her without the whole story being known, because even IF she as desperate with some addiction [[be it drugs, alcohol, gambling, food, shopping, whatever), again it would be the HIGHEST GOOD for the school system to use this to open dialogue which would then help OTHER teachers and students with similar troubles.

NOT to coddle them and make them think their extreme behavior is allowable, but to show them they don't need to HIDE it...which ALWAYS allows the bad stuff to root and grow. When it is brought to light, evil's momentum is always killed...allowing individuals to gain control over their distractions from good.

The current meme of being so self-fucking-righteous and simply throwing the book at someone who makes a poor choice does NOTHING but fill our prisons with the cast-offs from society, which EMPTIES so much potential from the overall good of our collective consciousness that it completely sickens me to consider it in total.

She and US will be better off if she learns and grows some, then uses that grace to teach others the better way. IF she can learn the better way herself...

citylover · January-01-11, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I was thinking gambling problem. Either way, short of someone holding her loved ones at gunpoint, I don't have a good reason for why she shouldn't be fired ASAP.

I thought of mentioning gambling as well.........I wonder if as we are guessing there is a provision for substance/addiction treatment for dps teachers.

**Packman41** · January-01-11, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Gannon

I only joined this conversation because so many were intent on crucifying her without all the data.

Sorry Gannon, but I am with jiminnm, sumas and all the others.

You are saying that you need, "...all the data." But, I had enough of the data to come to a conclusion that she was congentially stupid in trying to sell/pawn an item that was not hers. That is attempted larceny in my book.

And the last thing I need to hear about is why. Could not care less. It is irrelevant to the discussion. This hunt for a reason is not productive and only encourages the "I'm a victim" mentality. Maybe you've heard the saying, "You can't fix stupid." Well, that fits here.

**Gannon** · January-01-11, 03:20 PM

Packman,

I understand.

You seem to assume that pawning is selling.

For the MAJORITY of those I know in the city, it is not.

It is a cash loan, albeit at usury rates.

In some minds, that equates with an easy bolstering of cash flow, with the mere temporary inconvenience of not having an asset in hand for the duration before repaying it.

The GAMBLE is not being able to repay the loan...and losing said asset after four months. Three in the contract, one for grace...according to law, if I read the fine print correctly.

I have pawned ONE thing in my entire life, when a good friend needed rent money for his son out-of-state last year. Got $50 for a mixer worth $500 used, which retailed at $2,000 new. The way the pawn guy responded to my incredulity proved it was merely his reflex to all who crawl up to his window in their desperation.

Choices included selling things on Craig'sList...but once they are sold, even for the larger potential payoff...you then don't have the thing again until you can afford to buy it again. Not a choice with most of my stuff...much of it is irreplaceable.

So, if you put yourself in her shoes...as I said from the very first post onwards...because there is a substantial portion of the population which uses pawnshops on a REGULAR basis, she indeed may have only been looking at a temporary solution to a crisis.

We don't know. We may never.

I know what the law says about conversion of property, larceny, theft, and the like...but I also know people, and how we humans will always and always look to bend them to our advantage when the opportunity presents itself with enough motivation.

Funny, I'd bet MOST of the biggest complainers here regularly drive over the speed limit, and anyone who breaks even the LEAST of laws is in no position to start throwing rocks recklessly. [[which is why I think all police, judges, lawyers and the like must be spit-clean always and forever)

I am not equating speeding with theft...but if you are a law-and-order type eager and ready to start tossing individuals into prison, or merely the 'prison' of losing their income for a mere moment of stupidity...then it makes one a full-bore hypocrite. Willing to only notice the laws which are most convenient for you...or most easily hidden when broken.

Cheers!

**Gannon** · January-01-11, 03:24 PM

And if you really think you cannot fix stupid...which is SO asinine a comment that I must address it...then why don't you just drive your tough old Packard over most who are unfortunate enough to be stuck living in the ghettos of our world.

I mean, if they aren't redeemable, they will always just be a problem to you. Why NOT just eliminate them all from the gene pool?!

Because that is one logical and justifiable future for that stupid fucking attitude.

**DetroitTeacher** · January-01-11, 05:41 PM

Citylover asked, "I wonder if as we are guessing there is a provision for substance/addiction treatment for dps teachers."

The answer is NO. Our insurance covers substance abuse treatment [[but not other forms of addiction) and it is minimal, at best. There is no help line active that we can call for addiction problems. There used to be, but no more. I don't know from personal experience but from someone else's experience with the need for such treatment options.

**DetroitTeacher** · January-01-11, 05:49 PM

Gannon: You say she might have needed a temporary fix to a financial issue. I said in an earlier post that we got paid on Tuesday and she was in the pawn shop on Wednesday. I mean, really? Even I don't go through money like that and I like to hit Target [[anyone knows that Target is like a crack house). She could NOT have gotten much over 20 bucks for the Netbook, even on a really good day. They are relatively inexpensive to purchase and the NBs that DPS handed out are refurbed. She makes as much money as I do [[if not more because of the pay freezes) and she couldn't have been that hard up unless it was some type of addiction issue and she blew through her paycheck in less than 24 hours.

**English** · January-01-11, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

Citylover asked, "I wonder if as we are guessing there is a provision for substance/addiction treatment for dps teachers."

The answer is NO. Our insurance covers substance abuse treatment [[but not other forms of addiction) and it is minimal, at best. There is no help line active that we can call for addiction problems. There used to be, but no more. I don't know from personal experience but from someone else's experience with the need for such treatment options.

DT, that's terrible... a definite "devolution" from when I was hired 12 years ago. Large organizations choose to eliminate their EAPs at their peril...

**Django** · January-01-11, 09:35 PM

You can generally get about $100 for a decent laptop at Ziedmans, the laptop Im typing on should know.

Was she in control of the computer seems to be the question. She pawned it so Ive got to side with Gannon. Playing devils advocate, the woman always owned the computer, she had a receipt for it, nothing says she was going to sell it, it was safe but yes someone granted her a loan in exchange to hold on to the computer.

If it was Tuesday or Sunday really doesnt matter, if her pet turtle needed bypass surgery and the vet needed 800 but the paycheck on Monday was only 700 she took a loan on a computer that was trusted to her. Really, what crime was committed? Who said she wasnt going to come back in one hour, pay the loan off plus the $4 interest and have the computer back in time for class the next day. She was given that computer, they trusted her with that computer and in my eye she has not broken any law. Firing her from her job is a bit much and I hope if she has any problems [[drugs, gambling, none of which had been mentioned in the article) that she will be given the help needed.

**DetroitTeacher** · January-01-11, 09:50 PM

Django: It wasn't a laptop but a low-end Netbook. They retail new for about 249.00. These are refurbed. She was not GIVEN the computer. It is DPS property. If she gets away with this then what is to stop anyone from taking in equipment to pawn from every office and classroom? If this sets precedent, then there will be nothing left in DPS and we don't have much to begin with. I'm just wondering why she would be that stupid to try and pawn something belonging to DPS given the current media coverage of such activities. I wouldn't want to risk my job over something so stupid. DPS is no longer playing games. She might have gotten away with it two years ago but not anymore. This is akin to my taking my Smartboard out of my room and taking it to the pawn shop. It doesn't belong to me to take anywhere to pawn. If that were the case, most people here would be outraged. The Netbooks were not gifts from the district. It was spelled out pretty clearly in the contract we signed that these did not belong to us. It just gives teachers a bad name and reiterates the lack of trust people in the community [[and DPS) has in us. That sucks for those of us who are doing right.

**Django** · January-01-11, 10:11 PM

I understand fully DT, the notebook was not hers but is hers to use. Im not condoning her actions and setting the precedent is a totally valid point. She was given use of the notebook though, they trusted her with that. If she doesnt turn it back in at the end of the year she would be penalized correct?

BTW, you all are not nearly paid enough, and Im not just blowin smoke up your ass, I mean that. Of all the ppl in our community we pay teachers, the ones who nurture our future, shit.

Did she lose the computer? Is it gone? No doubt she fucked up and could probably use some type of help, but firing her? Id rather know all the facts. She might be an amazing teacher who didnt know where to turn when she needed $20 [[most likely shes just fucked up I know)

**sumas** · January-01-11, 10:34 PM

DPS discovered nothing, it was the pawn shop that confiscated it.

**DetroitTeacher** · January-01-11, 10:49 PM

Sumas: Yes, but DPS would have discovered it in due time. Just because I have your car that you let me borrow [[or I had a company car) and I took it to one of those cash for your car and you can buy it back later places and YOU don't know it's missing doesn't make it right. If that were the case, it's a criminal offense, correct? Doesn't matter WHY I needed the money [[and most likely if I need the money that bad a day after payday, then I won't have the cash to get it back later, either) you'd still be pissed and report it stolen when the whole enchilada finally came out. It doesn't matter WHO figured out it wasn't hers to pawn...the fact is, it was the property of a district that is in the toilet, financially, and that district can't afford to keep people who rip off our kids [[the netbooks were to benefit the kids' education)...period.

**Django** · January-02-11, 01:28 AM

How would have DPS known about it if she had come back the next day and gotten it out of the pawn? Your assuming she pawned it outright for money and never planned to return. She didnt try and sell it, she pawned it. All the pawns I know will either buy or pawn your item, when you pawn something you generally get less money than if you sell it to them outright. When you pawn something, you can get it back. When you sell something you most likely cannot unless you pay their bumped up price.

**East Detroit** · January-02-11, 01:41 AM

I guess it was doing as much good for the kids as the laptops mentioned that are in basements and houses, some apparently forever. She wasn't right in doing it, but it would be interesting to hear all the facts before declaring her to be a drug addict. Where did that even come from? "Detroit" means "drug addict"?

Was it one of the broken or obsolete pieces of junk that DPS wouldn't take back?

Was she scraping together enough money to pay ransom to get her kid of out a Taliban prison?

Nah. "Detroit." "Drug addict."

**fryar** · January-02-11, 05:05 AM

This is such a phenomenal blunder, I'd be okay with her getting fired for this. You want to just discipline her, fine, I won't fight you over it to make my point, but this cannot simply be par for the course behavior. You want to be decent to those lowest on the totem pole, fine, but one can't just look the other way with this stuff.

Let me be the first to inject some much-needed bourgeoisie into this thread: I also find the lack of sophistication involved in this story bothersome. A pawn shop? Corrupt public servants with higher standards might at least have had the decency to ebay their loot. Not really that central to a conversation about how to discipline her, but I know it only reinforces my pride in publicly associating myself with this town.

Next thing you know, the scandal will break that Evans got canned for sending his shield in to cashforgold.com after seeing one of those late night ads. Turns out they sent it back to him, saying it was actually made of brass, and in the process invoiced him for shipping. Being unbanked, he had to send them a money order.

**DetroitTeacher** · January-02-11, 07:11 AM

East Detroit: You need to read all of the posts. We are merely speculating what could make someone stupid enough to pawn DPS property when eagle eyes are hunting for stuff like this. We mentioned other things, as well. The netbook was not obsolete [[yet). We got them on the 17th of Dec. We didn't have them long enough to use with the kids [[we've been out since the 17th). From my experience, if she needed the money for legit reasons [[ransom, saving her home, a life saving operation for her kid who doesn't qualify to be on her insurance, etc) then teachers would have gladly donated to her. We've done it before for those who really needed it and I don't think anyone would have turned their back on her. Our union website frequently has donations needed type messages. She only needed to reach out to us. If she were genuinely needing of money, we would have pitched in. I don't see where the 20 bucks she would have gotten would really be worth all she could possibly lose had she been caught [[and she was caught).

**Gannon** · January-02-11, 11:33 AM

Gannon: You say she might have needed a temporary fix to a financial issue. I said in an earlier post that we got paid on Tuesday and she was in the pawn shop on Wednesday. I mean, really? Even I don't go through money like that and I like to hit Target [[anyone knows that Target is like a crack house). She could NOT have gotten much over 20 bucks for the Netbook, even on a really good day. They are relatively inexpensive to purchase and the NBs that DPS handed out are refurbed. She makes as much money as I do [[if not more because of the pay freezes) and she couldn't have been that hard up unless it was some type of addiction issue and she blew through her paycheck in less than 24 hours.

I understand.

So if someone who is used to ALWAYS being able to pay their bills is suddenly short one check period [[even from merely buying that ONE last gift for Christmas)...maybe facing a cascading series of bounced checks [[with the damned USURY rates banks can now charge for those, and they seem to have the weirdest accounting methods in order to FORCE this to happen to even the BEST of money managers)...looks around for THAT sort of 'quick fix'...

Hopefully you can see where I'm going with this...there IS still room for it to be a simple thing...and not the worst of the worst that it seems everyone wants to pile on her without knowing the full story.

Cheers!

**DetroitTeacher** · January-02-11, 11:49 AM

Gannon: If that were the case then she should have taken something of HERS to pawn...or go to one of those Cash Advance places [[yes, I know they rip people off...but it's still better than hawking your employer's stuff). I'm just saying...

**Django** · January-02-11, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

East Detroit: From my experience, if she needed the money for legit reasons [[ransom, saving her home, a life saving operation for her kid who doesn't qualify to be on her insurance, etc) then teachers would have gladly donated to her. We've done it before for those who really needed it and I don't think anyone would have turned their back on her. Our union website frequently has donations needed type messages. She only needed to reach out to us. If she were genuinely needing of money, we would have pitched in. I don't see where the 20 bucks she would have gotten would really be worth all she could possibly lose had she been caught [[and she was caught).

Good point Teach. you got me there.

Buy American · January-02-11, 11:52 AM

This is a teacher we're talking about here, someone who should totally know better, someone who is responsible for teaching the children of Detroit. What message does this send?

It seems to me that some are trying their hardest to give the benefit of the doubt to her when in fact, she actually tried to pawn something that didn't even belong to her and that's wrong no matter how you look at it. I'll bet she has a 50" flat screen television that could have been pawned to pay her bills or buy her drugs or pay her gambling debt. Her own computer is probably worth more than that netbook. No, instead she chose to pawn DPS material. Life is all about choices and she made the wrong one and there is no excuse.

Blaming the banks for the USURY rates or saying that maybe she bought one extra Christmas gift that threw her over her budget is simply absurd.
She should take responsibility for her actions and resign from the DPS.

**Gannon** · January-02-11, 12:09 PM

I didn't BLAME anything of the sort...why do you absolutists have to put fucking words into my mouth?!

Why does motivation, no matter how obscure, have to suddenly become the reason?

The BLAME has always solely been upon the person who did the deed, period.

I was merely trying to keep her from losing her head with all the quick choppers here!

Resignation is the best course for her, because she will forever be tainted by this action. I agree wholeheartedly with that assessment.

D'Teacher,
I know, I get it. I've NEVER said what she did was anywhere near right or wise or prudent or anything positive of the sort. I just was defending her until the whole story was out, because of the witch-hunters.

People are SO damned quick to damn others...when THEY'D probably be the first to cry for grace when THEY made some similar mistake.

Like whining when they got pulled over for speeding and trying to blame anyone else.

Or losing their cozy auto production job and blaming the guy who bought the better car in the first place. [[I know that can sound like a dig, BuyAmerican, but I AM only teasing, please take it as light as I'm delivering it! My intent is pure, not vindictive.)

Cheers, truly.