Incinerator Fire

**Django** · December-27-10, 04:43 PM

I used to live on Dubois and Medbury. Amazingly the smell wasnt too bad most of the time but when we got it we got it good, granted Im probably not as sensitive as most having lived in that area for the past nine years. Had to shut all the doors and windows when the wind was blowing just right. For the most part it didnt bother me too much but yes there is still quite a few residents in that area including a school and connecting church.

**Gistok** · December-27-10, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

The blue containers are a pilot program, limited to only a few neighborhoods. In Grandmont/Rosedale they actually have the roll out blue courville containers, which are [[allegedly) picked up every other week. The program is about 18 months old. From what I've gathered from my own observations, people either don't know or don't care what winds up in them, and don't know when it gets picked up. I've seen some trucks carry two drivers, one to verify the contents, the other to operate the lift, after which many containers remain curbside because they "fail" inspection.

Thanks! ... that explains why some folks were questioning the blue containers. Apparently Cornerstone Village... the far east side of Detroit east of Cadieux, south of I-94 and north of Mack... was part of this pilot program as well...

**Django** · December-27-10, 04:48 PM

If they do shut it down we can make Trash Mountain into a ski hill/resort like Mt Brighton.

**Detroitnerd** · December-27-10, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I live within a 2 miles of the incinerator.

But not north or east of it?

**Detroitnerd** · December-27-10, 05:16 PM

Here's the news clip from last year.

http://detnews.com/article/20090421/...side-recycling

**Gistok** · December-27-10, 06:12 PM

I know that the stench of the incinerator reeks to high heaven during the hot months towards the surrounding area... but I do have this question.... in regards to "greening".... can better "European style" filters/scrubbers make the incinerator chimney exhaust safer and more palatable? Or does the technology required for safe emissions require a more modern "entire" incinerator??

**Detroitnerd** · December-27-10, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I know that the stench of the incinerator reeks to high heaven during the hot months towards the surrounding area... but I do have this question.... in regards to "greening".... can better "European style" filters/scrubbers make the incinerator chimney exhaust safer and more palatable? Or does the technology required for safe emissions require a more modern "entire" incinerator??

It is the largest incinerator in the United States, and I doubt you could retool something so big to match a new generation of designs. Think of how well we've been able to adapt the Packard Plant for reuse ...

I also wonder where these incinerators are located in Europe. Probably not in the middle of a city?

Also, Europeans have serious limitations on space [[very crowded) and resources [[say, stuff to burn) that could make it more sensible over there. We don't really have those issues here.

Hey, 20 years ago, it seemed like it would make sense to incinerate trash. The promises were great: Not only would trash be "recycled" into energy, it would also be profitable. Win-win. But it is not borne out by the facts. Detroit has paid billions of dollars to run this, and the external costs are unknown in terms of added disease and increased depopulation.

I think our efforts are better spent on the things other cities are doing that we're not. And the incinerator, since it needs lots of plastic and paper to burn, seems to be an impediment to the first step: a serious recycling component to Detroit's waste management plan.

Count me among those who consider incinerators as "green" as nuclear reactors. [[Remember them? They were gonna produce electricity "too cheap to meter.")

**Wesley Mouch** · December-27-10, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

But not north or east of it?

Hamtramck.

Glad to see some intelligent dialogue. A bit rare here. Orthodoxy doesn't advance thought.

Diversity does. Recycling should be encouraged. Waste-to-energy should be encouraged. We are all responsible to minimize our impact on the environment.

Regarding conversion of our 'trash burner' to modern standards, its probably not likely, as well as I understand this. I've been told its not suited to conversion to bio-mass burning, such as corn-cobs or wood waste. That's becoming popular elsewhere.

Detroit Thermal [[utility for downtown steam) bought this joint, and I believe they are committed to making it work. Every calorie they create from trash is one less that'll be made by burning natural gas.

Keep the EPA on them to stay in compliance on air-quality, and let them experiment, learn, fail, and evolve.

Vox · December-27-10, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Hamtramck.

Glad to see some intelligent dialogue. A bit rare here. Orthodoxy doesn\'t advance thought.

Diversity does. Recycling should be encouraged. Waste-to-energy should be encouraged. We are all responsible to minimize our impact on the environment.

Regarding conversion of our \'trash burner\' to modern standards, its probably not likely, as well as I understand this. I\'ve been told its not suited to conversion to bio-mass burning, such as corn-cobs or wood waste. That\'s becoming popular elsewhere.

Detroit Thermal [[utility for downtown steam) bought this joint, and I believe they are committed to making it work. Every calorie they create from trash is one less that\'ll be made by burning natural gas.

Keep the EPA on them to stay in compliance on air-quality, and let them experiment, learn, fail, and evolve.

The vast majority of the noxious output of the incinerator stems from the absence of plastic recycling in the trash burned. Among other things. If they banned plastic garbage bags and instituted a citywide recycling program for plastic alone, that would stop a significant amount of the horrible odors.

NorthEndere · December-27-10, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Every calorie they create from trash is one less that'll be made by burning natural gas.

You keep harping on this point, but burning natural gas is FAR cleaner than burning trash, period, and all you're doing is shifting the source of the pollution. The very least that could be done is a city-wide recycling program if they aren't willing to close the incinerator to at least reduce what goes into there. Detroit's incinerator is ridiculously large, oversized even, one of the largest in the world. There isn't any reason for that, especially knowing what we know now about the burning of waste. People are worried about the smell; the real problem is the stuff you don't see: mercury, dioxins, and lead among other poisons.

**Russix** · December-28-10, 03:32 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Incineration is growing in Europe. Detroit was at the vanguard when the incinerator was built. Check out what's happening... from the NYTimes....

Read full article in New York Times
Your choice. Live in the past and oppose progress, and surprise, you'll get no progress and watch Europe figure out how to do green.

Yes, we have an old trash incinerator. Maybe its time to improve. Not regress because of naysayers.

...

Somehow I don't see Detroit reaching Denmark's 30% recycling rate when it's contractually obligated to provide the thing with so many tons of trash per year or pay a penalty[[has this changed since it sale?). Recycling, Waste, Energy, blah, blah, blah, we're broke. We've pumped more than a billion dollars into this and it still is not up to par with anything that can remotely be considered green. Strictly from a fiscal view, it's time to close the thing down.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4620041.stm

Detroit's incinerator heats downtown Detroit with less CO2 than suburbia who is burning natural gas.

I'm sorry, which suburban community is making plans to embrace "green" incineration technology?

**Wesley Mouch** · December-28-10, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Russix

I'm sorry, which suburban community is making plans to embrace "green" incineration technology?

Sorry poorly worded comment. Intent was to highlight the efficiency of district heating by steam generated as by-product of trash burning vs. distributed consumption of natural gas in suburban office buildings. [[OK, Detroit's steam district is no prize-winner at the moment, but district heating/cooling is more efficient and environmental than individual plants in each building)

**Russix** · December-28-10, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Sorry poorly worded comment. Intent was to highlight the efficiency of district heating by steam generated as by-product of trash burning vs. distributed consumption of natural gas in suburban office buildings. [[OK, Detroit's steam district is no prize-winner at the moment, but district heating/cooling is more efficient and environmental than individual plants in each building)

Agreed, be interesting to see if the old steam pipes would function as geothermal heating/cooling system.

**tallboy66** · December-28-10, 05:53 PM

The suburbs, Madison Hgts. closed it's incinerator years ago, and there's enough steam heat coming out of the vents and sewers under Detroit to heat how much?

**Wesley Mouch** · December-28-10, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by tallboy66

...there's enough steam heat coming out of the vents and sewers under Detroit to heat how much?

Not sure if this is what you're asking, but Detroit Thermal provides comfort heating to 146 buildings in downtown Detroit, including Renaissance Center, Penobscot Building, City-County Bldg., Fox Theatre, Detroit Medical Center [[DMC), Charles Wright African-American Museum and Henry Ford Hospital, per their website.

The steam comes from two main sources; the incinerator [[trash fueled) & the Madison plant [[natural gas fueled). See detroitthermal.com for a district map.