Incinerator Fire

**thecarl** · December-27-10, 02:27 AM

Just before noon today, I saw massive amounts of smoke billowing from the GDRRA facility on Russell. The smoke was visible over a great distance, but was quickly put "under control." I have seen no reports of this emergency situation on the forums, or in the news, which strikes me as curious. Scorch marks visible on the exterior of the building.

**thecarl** · December-27-10, 02:33 AM

More pics...hopefully not too small.

**marcwigle** · December-27-10, 03:02 AM

I'm sure that there's nothing to worry about. Just don't breathe for 24 hours... the City of Detroit is taking good care of the situation. That, I'm sure about.

**Meddle** · December-27-10, 05:28 AM

emergency situation ?

Probably a bunch of tires. Hardly an "emergency situation" .

**Whitehouse** · December-27-10, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

emergency situation ?

Probably a bunch of tires. Hardly an "emergency situation" .

At first, seeing the title, I though Captain Obvious is crying wolf.

Seeing the blackening on the outside I think this was quite a serious fire.

**Captain Hindsight** · December-27-10, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Whitehouse

At first, seeing the title, I though Captain Obvious is crying wolf.

Seeing the blackening on the outside I think this was quite a serious fire.

Someone trying to rouse me?

If the incinerator was shut down it wouldn't smell so bad.

My job is done here.

PM me next time, Ill get back to you within the week.

**Wesley Mouch** · December-27-10, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Hindsight

...<snip>

If the incinerator was shut down it wouldn't smell so bad.

Enjoy living next to trash mountain!

**Wesley Mouch** · December-27-10, 08:20 AM

The 'super-sidiary' of Detroit Thermal that provides steam heat service to much of downtown detroit recently purchased the
former GDRRA [[Greater Detroit Resource Recovery) plant.

from Crains...

A newly created joint venture of Connecticut-based Atlas Holdings LLC and Ohio-based Thermal Ventures II LP will own the Greater Detroit Resource Recovery Authority waste-to-energy plant along with the steam energy loop it services and an operating company for five other local steam facilities, in a transaction valued at $50 million.

No date is set for the waste plant, also known as the Detroit incinerator, to reopen.

This environmentally-friendly plant saves Detroit from contributing to those evil trash-mountains that the suburbs and Canada are creating in SE Mich. Burning the trash to create steam and electrical energy is much smarter.

Link to Crain's Detroit article

**j to the jeremy** · December-27-10, 09:18 AM

The trash incinerator, which Dave Bing promised to close, has been rebranded as "green". This makes me laugh and cry to no end. Unfortunately, plans for curbside recycling, shutting down the biggest incinerator in the US, and generally cleaning Detroit have been put aside in favor of attracting business, no matter how dirty it is.

If it caught fire, I'm happy I'm out of town today to avoid breathing in whatever burned. The air didn't smell as bad when the thing was shut off for a few months.

**marcwigle** · December-27-10, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by j to the jeremy

The trash incinerator, which Dave Bing promised to close, has been rebranded as "green". This makes me laugh and cry to no end. Unfortunately, plans for curbside recycling, shutting down the biggest incinerator in the US, and generally cleaning Detroit have been put aside in favor of attracting business, no matter how dirty it is.

If it caught fire, I'm happy I'm out of town today to avoid breathing in whatever burned. The air didn't smell as bad when the thing was shut off for a few months.

I can't comment on the Detroit incinerator but, I firmly agree with incineration. Here, in Canada's capital, we have filled up an old quarry and piled up garbage to anbelievable level.... right on the entrance to town on one of it's major highways. What leaks from that pile, and others like it, concern me a whole more than what a clean incinerator might spew out of its stacks. The pile does look nice now since they planted grass on it... just don't drink the wellwater for miles around it. ALL of the homes that were in the vicinity have bought and razed. And the stench is smelled for miles and miles.

**j to the jeremy** · December-27-10, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by marcwigle

I can't comment on the Detroit incinerator but, I firmly agree with incineration. Here, in Canada's capital, we have filled up an old quarry and piled up garbage to anbelievable level.... right on the entrance to town on one of it's major highways. What leaks from that pile, and others like it, concern me a whole more than what a clean incinerator might spew out of its stacks. The pile does look nice now since they planted grass on it... just don't drink the wellwater for miles around it. ALL of the homes that were in the vicinity have bought and razed. And the stench is smelled for miles and miles.

There is no such thing as clean incineration.

If we must have it, there is no excuse for it to be within a mile of a major hospital complex, university, cultural center, and smack dab in the middle of a neighborhood that would otherwise be desirable for redevelopment but is now a wasteland.

And by the way, residents of Detroit do not appreciate Canadian "recyclables" that Toronto and other municipalities have been found sending to the incinerator to burn. Plus, the incinerator can not even be turned on unless it is full to capacity, something the city achieves each day by burning suburban and Canadian trash. It is an example of putting the regions trash, quite literally, in what should be its gem, greater downtown Detroit.

Detroit is the largest city in the US without curbside recycling, despite the tireless efforts of grassroots groups to change this. Instead, we support our asthma rates of 3x higher than normal by burning other people's trash in a residential area, all so that a steam heating loop for 146 buildings downtown can shoot smelly air out of manholes.

**Lowell** · December-27-10, 10:00 AM

Nice pics TheCarl! Thanks. The location of this air poisoner near to Detroit's most vibrant area, the cultural center, adds impetus as to why it needs to be shut down. Fortunately for the cultural center, prevailing winds move the pollution to the east 80-90% of the time but that is no comfort to those to the east.

**Detroitnerd** · December-27-10, 11:31 AM

As far as the incinerator being "rebranded" as green, that has been going on for a long time.

I recall a story about one of the clowncilmembers speaking to a class of Detroit students. During a question-and-answer period, one of the students asked a good question: Why doesn't Detroit do recycling?

The clowncilperson adopted her best church-lady smile and condescendingly said, "Oh, but it is recycled. It is all recycled into energy."

Face it: The incinerator is going to be there, forever, poisoning the air on the east side, occasionally burning down, rebuilt with taxpayer money, as long as the waste-management issue is controlled by an authority composed of mayoral appointees. There are simply too many backroom dealers and palm-greasers ready to make money off of it, and too many sycophantic, inner-circle clowcil-types ready to shill for this cancer factory.

Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown.

**thecarl** · December-27-10, 03:28 PM

Meddle, there were more than a dozen emergency vehicles on site responding to the situation - so at the minimum, it was a very serious situation, I'd say! But, the volume of smoke from this incident, and scorching of the building, suggest that there was an emergency.

Lowell, thanks. In this case, the smoke was rolling south-southwest, toward the hospitals and the cultural center. Much of the smoke hovered at ground level, obscuring visibility along the I-75 service drives and across Warren.

I'm not familiar with the inside of the facility, but based upon videos I've seen of the center, the smoke was emanating from what may be the sorting part of the facility, where the waste is separated. If that is correct, there should have been no smoke coming from that building whatsoever.

I'm still puzzled over the fact that I saw news crews and TV cameras there, and seemingly every fire engine that could be mustered - yet there are no stories that I can find?

**Hamtragedy** · December-27-10, 04:20 PM

The blue containers are a pilot program, limited to only a few neighborhoods. In Grandmont/Rosedale they actually have the roll out blue courville containers, which are [[allegedly) picked up every other week. The program is about 18 months old. From what I've gathered from my own observations, people either don't know or don't care what winds up in them, and don't know when it gets picked up. I've seen some trucks carry two drivers, one to verify the contents, the other to operate the lift, after which many containers remain curbside because they "fail" inspection.

**j to the jeremy** · December-27-10, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

The blue containers are a pilot program, limited to only a few neighborhoods. In Grandmont/Rosedale they actually have the roll out blue courville containers, which are [[allegedly) picked up every other week. The program is about 18 months old. From what I've gathered from my own observations, people either don't know or don't care what winds up in them, and don't know when it gets picked up. I've seen some trucks carry two drivers, one to verify the contents, the other to operate the lift, after which many containers remain curbside because they "fail" inspection.

Part of the problem must come from the fact that the program was implemented as Cockrel was on the way out, and Bing hasn't really been public about improving Detroit's environmental record. Does anyone know what kind of education was given to the 'hoods who received bins, or were they just distributed with little notice or care?

**Detroitnerd** · December-27-10, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

The blue containers are a pilot program, limited to only a few neighborhoods. In Grandmont/Rosedale they actually have the roll out blue courville containers, which are [[allegedly) picked up every other week. The program is about 18 months old. From what I've gathered from my own observations, people either don't know or don't care what winds up in them, and don't know when it gets picked up. I've seen some trucks carry two drivers, one to verify the contents, the other to operate the lift, after which many containers remain curbside because they "fail" inspection.

Jeez, I had kinda suspected it was designed to fail. You know, like, "Them ignant Detroiters will never be able to learn to recycle." More paper and plastic to BURN.

**Gistok** · December-27-10, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

The blue containers are a pilot program, limited to only a few neighborhoods. In Grandmont/Rosedale they actually have the roll out blue courville containers, which are [[allegedly) picked up every other week. The program is about 18 months old. From what I've gathered from my own observations, people either don't know or don't care what winds up in them, and don't know when it gets picked up. I've seen some trucks carry two drivers, one to verify the contents, the other to operate the lift, after which many containers remain curbside because they "fail" inspection.

Thanks! ... that explains why some folks were questioning the blue containers. Apparently Cornerstone Village... the far east side of Detroit east of Cadieux, south of I-94 and north of Mack... was part of this pilot program as well...

**Django** · December-27-10, 04:43 PM

I used to live on Dubois and Medbury. Amazingly the smell wasnt too bad most of the time but when we got it we got it good, granted Im probably not as sensitive as most having lived in that area for the past nine years. Had to shut all the doors and windows when the wind was blowing just right. For the most part it didnt bother me too much but yes there is still quite a few residents in that area including a school and connecting church.

**Django** · December-27-10, 04:48 PM

If they do shut it down we can make Trash Mountain into a ski hill/resort like Mt Brighton.

**Detroitnerd** · December-27-10, 05:16 PM

Here's the news clip from last year.

http://detnews.com/article/20090421/...side-recycling

**Gistok** · December-27-10, 06:12 PM

I know that the stench of the incinerator reeks to high heaven during the hot months towards the surrounding area... but I do have this question.... in regards to "greening".... can better "European style" filters/scrubbers make the incinerator chimney exhaust safer and more palatable? Or does the technology required for safe emissions require a more modern "entire" incinerator??

**Detroitnerd** · December-27-10, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I know that the stench of the incinerator reeks to high heaven during the hot months towards the surrounding area... but I do have this question.... in regards to "greening".... can better "European style" filters/scrubbers make the incinerator chimney exhaust safer and more palatable? Or does the technology required for safe emissions require a more modern "entire" incinerator??

It is the largest incinerator in the United States, and I doubt you could retool something so big to match a new generation of designs. Think of how well we've been able to adapt the Packard Plant for reuse ...

I also wonder where these incinerators are located in Europe. Probably not in the middle of a city?

Also, Europeans have serious limitations on space [[very crowded) and resources [[say, stuff to burn) that could make it more sensible over there. We don't really have those issues here.

Hey, 20 years ago, it seemed like it would make sense to incinerate trash. The promises were great: Not only would trash be "recycled" into energy, it would also be profitable. Win-win. But it is not borne out by the facts. Detroit has paid billions of dollars to run this, and the external costs are unknown in terms of added disease and increased depopulation.

I think our efforts are better spent on the things other cities are doing that we're not. And the incinerator, since it needs lots of plastic and paper to burn, seems to be an impediment to the first step: a serious recycling component to Detroit's waste management plan.

Count me among those who consider incinerators as "green" as nuclear reactors. [[Remember them? They were gonna produce electricity "too cheap to meter.")

**tallboy66** · December-28-10, 05:53 PM

The suburbs, Madison Hgts. closed it's incinerator years ago, and there's enough steam heat coming out of the vents and sewers under Detroit to heat how much?

**Wesley Mouch** · December-28-10, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by tallboy66

...there's enough steam heat coming out of the vents and sewers under Detroit to heat how much?

Not sure if this is what you're asking, but Detroit Thermal provides comfort heating to 146 buildings in downtown Detroit, including Renaissance Center, Penobscot Building, City-County Bldg., Fox Theatre, Detroit Medical Center [[DMC), Charles Wright African-American Museum and Henry Ford Hospital, per their website.

The steam comes from two main sources; the incinerator [[trash fueled) & the Madison plant [[natural gas fueled). See detroitthermal.com for a district map.