Question about neighborhoods

**EASTSIDE CAT 67-83** · December-28-10, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Ravine

Yup. That's how we roll.
And it is only the rock band Journey what doesn't realize that if you are staying in South Detroit, that means you had a fatal boating accident north of Windsor.

South Detroit my eye.....

**PGC** · December-28-10, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Fury13

That miight be the worst neighborhood in the city. Dangerous in daylight, never mind at night.

Just out of curiosity, how far does the general "badness" of that neighborhood extend? For example, in DC, one block could be pretty rough, but 2 blocks over is fine. So would Gratiot/7 Mile or Gratiot/Houston Whittier be pretty much in the same situation as Gratiot/6 Mile or better/worse?

**PGC** · December-28-10, 07:33 PM

Also, one more question about that specific area. I was looking at the results from the ACS from the Census Bureau, and I noticed that in the census tract to the southwest of the 6 Mile/Gratiot intersection, 22% of the residents responded that they belonged to "some other race" [[ie not black, white, hispanic, or asian). Does anyone who is familiar with that area know if there is a certain ethnic group that that might be referring to? Although I have heard of some people answering "American" on the Census in reference to their race, so it may be something like that.

Again, thank you to every one who has replied, it's been very informative.

**msamslex** · December-28-10, 10:55 PM

Hi PCG, welcome to the forum.

Barton-McFarlane is our neighborhood association's name. Both Barton and McFarlane are elementary schools within the Detroit Public School system. Barton is on the corner of Joy Rd. and Ohio. I went there back in the 60's. This school is still open. McFarlane at one time was a juinor high school but was replaced by Charles Drew juinor high where I also went. Went to Mackenzie for high school. McFarlane ,Drew and Mackenzie are closed with plans for Mackenzie to be torn down and be rebuilt as a K-8.

I live in the Aviation subdivision which borders Detroit and Dearborn. The association is made up of many other subdivisions/block clubs in the area. Aviation was once an airfield back during the first world war.

Historic Aviation Property Owners Association of Dearborn, Michigan USA

Aviation Subdivision [[Formerly an Army Airfield in 1917): Photos and videos on

**Fury13** · December-28-10, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by PGC

Just out of curiosity, how far does the general "badness" of that neighborhood extend? For example, in DC, one block could be pretty rough, but 2 blocks over is fine. So would Gratiot/7 Mile or Gratiot/Houston Whittier be pretty much in the same situation as Gratiot/6 Mile or better/worse?

That whole Gratiot corridor is pretty horrible, from Harper all the way up to State Fair [[7 1/2 Mile). It's probably at its worst between City Airport and Seven Mile.

The northeast side is marginally better north of State Fair Ave., but that's not saying a lot. At that point, it's probably a bit better west of Gratiot rather than east of Gratiot.

It's still no place I'd choose to live, and my family is originally from that area.

**PGC** · December-29-10, 12:25 AM

I'm still trying to get a better understanding of the areas that are referred to as the name of an intersection, especially as to how far one area extends before it becomes a different one. For example, take the 7 Mile/Gratiot area and the 7 Mile/Schoenherr area. Are these 2 close enough that people consider them to be the same neighborhood?

**laurin** · December-29-10, 01:34 AM

I did a quick scan and didn't see any replies to the 7/Evergreen area, so here it goes-- it's a complete nonstarter.

While it may be in a bit more solid than other parts of the city, it is deteriorating at a steady pace. Crime is up, and there is an increasing number of abandoned houses. We wanted to stay but couldn't do it with a little one. Just six years ago it was a different neighborhood and a great block. Now it just seems like the blight is creeping in from all sides. Solid housing, however.

**jcole** · December-29-10, 08:06 AM

Back 'in the day'[[i.e. MY day)7 Mile/Gratiot was a shopping destination, so I'm assuming that is what that designation still refers too. It probably encompasses about 1/4 mile in any direction from that intersection.
I lived at 7/Kelly and we didn't consider ourselves to be part of the 7/Gratiot area; as 7/Schoenherr is about the same distance in the opposite direction, I'm guessing they are considered a separate neighborhood too.

**Delray** · December-29-10, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Ravine

Yup. That's how we roll.
And it is only the rock band Journey what doesn't realize that if you are staying in South Detroit, that means you had a fatal boating accident north of Windsor.

Speaking of which, the current Metrotimes has an article on 48217 -- the southernmost part of the city -- and says: "Several of the 48217's neighborhoods have stable, well-kept housing with block club signs welcoming visitors; other areas are more dilapidated. The area known as "The Hole," is notorious for its criminal enterprises."

QUESTION: Can anyone tell me where "The Hole" is?

LodgeDodger · December-29-10, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by jcole

Back 'in the day'[[i.e. MY day)7 Mile/Gratiot was a shopping destination, so I'm assuming that is what that designation still refers too. It probably encompasses about 1/4 mile in any direction from that intersection.
I lived at 7/Kelly and we didn't consider ourselves to be part of the 7/Gratiot area; as 7/Schoenherr is about the same distance in the opposite direction, I'm guessing they are considered a separate neighborhood too.

Seven Mile and Schoenherr are a few blocks from the Seven Mile and Gratiot area. We weren't considered part of the Seven and Gratiot area, but we'd walk there often to shop. I still remember the tile pattern in the floor of the Cunningham Drugs across from Kresge.

**PeterhuntPrincess** · December-29-10, 10:14 AM

Okay, so my deed says the subdivision is OBENAUER BARBER LAINGS DUNORD PARK NO 2. Is that the same as the neighborhood name? Thanks for the new research project folks. Maybe I'll get to see what the old hood used to look like. Obvisously much better...

**gazhekwe** · December-29-10, 10:26 AM

Deed names are not necessarily the same as neighborhood names. Our former home near St. Marys and Lyndon is between the Grand River-Greenfield and Grandmont neighborhoods, but the deed name was a man's name that was never used in the area. The area was platted in the 19teens, and the name came from one of the planners or property owners at that time.

Neighborhood edges can be somewhat blurry. In the 70s, we were not acknowedged to be IN Grandmont as real estate values plunged. Grandmont was more stable than surrounding streets. We could put Grandmont area, but some prospective buyers argued with us about that. Now, the Grandmont name goes east a few blocks farther than it did in the 70s.

**Fury13** · December-29-10, 10:53 AM

Detroit has never had boundary-defined neighborhoods as other cities [[Chicago, NYC, SF) do. And neighborhood names have changed over the years. Agreed, subdivision names on plats/deeds were rarely retained by the residents. Seems like major intersections were usually used to identify the area where one lived.

**PGC** · December-29-10, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by msamslex

I live in the Aviation subdivision which borders Detroit and Dearborn. The association is made up of many other subdivisions/block clubs in the area. Aviation was once an airfield back during the first world war.

I was just looking at some satellite photos of your neighborhood, and that 7 way intersection looks crazy. I've never seen an intersection of that many streets that didn't have a traffic circle. Is it difficult to navigate that thing?

**gazhekwe** · December-29-10, 02:08 PM

There is a traffic circle, in fact, there are two of them.

**PGC** · December-29-10, 02:38 PM

I see a circle to the northwest of the intersection on Littlefield, but I don't see any markings on the pavement at the main intersection that would indicate a circle. It looks like Esper, Littlefield, and Miller all come to a point on Tireman. The photos may be out of date though so I may be wrong.

**Jimaz** · December-29-10, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by PGC

I was just looking at some satellite photos of your neighborhood, and that 7 way intersection looks crazy. I've never seen an intersection of that many streets that didn't have a traffic circle. Is it difficult to navigate that thing?

The Esper/Littlefield/Miller/Tireman intersection does look crazy but it doesn't seem to have much traffic. So has this intersection been replaced with a traffic circle? It looks like there's plenty of room to do so.

**GMan** · January-01-11, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by PGC

I was just looking at some satellite photos of your neighborhood, and that 7 way intersection looks crazy. I've never seen an intersection of that many streets that didn't have a traffic circle. Is it difficult to navigate that thing?

I remember traversing this area on the way to visit my grandma. My dad used to shortcut over to the Wyoming / Lonyo intersection from Shaefer using this route. The traffic signals used to have an extra blinking yellow cycle to alert you that your road was next to get green as it cycled through the cross streets. Seemed silly sitting there looking at another car on an opposing street doing the same when an empty cross street had the green and nobody on it!

Thanks msamslex for the links to your neighborhood association. I always wondered why the roads were laid out that way.

**GMan** · January-01-11, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by PGC

Thank you both for replying, it was very informative. I would like to find out as much as I can about various parts of the city, and sometimes its hard when the typical response from a lot of people is along the lines of "you'll get shot/stabbed/robbed/raped if you go there".

Do you know why it is that a lot of the areas don't have a name for the neighborhood? Did they have one in the past and it just fell out of use or did they never have one to begin with?

Growing up in NW Detroit post 67' it seemed that the neighborhoods and city gov struggled to define neighborhoods and created names trying to foster pride in the area.

The name of my sub was Hartwick Estates. Mr. Hartwick used to live on my block. The old farm house was down the block and his old service station were on the corner which later became a Firestone store. Old residents used this as name for the area even though there was no formal sign.

Also I remember identifing the neighborhood by the local public school bondary. The Winship district. Residents children of this distict would attend Winship Elementry if they chose to go to D.P.S. So this was a commonality of the area.

Still later on the city erected a gawdy monolith on the corner of McNichols and Shaefer with a different name McNichols/ ? Neighborhood. [[ can't remember the cross street they used but it wasn't Shaefer. ) Each renaming an attempt to put an identity on a neighborhood. Each renaming making the defined area bigger and therefore more impersonal.
I left the area after the Hosp expansion demolished most of my block.

**Blue** · January-05-11, 10:46 AM

According to the "Downtown Detroit" flyer that is promoting food and fun and providing a map to tourists, there are 5 main parts of Detroit. Corktown, Downtown, Eastern Market, Midtown and New Center, the last is North West of 94.
as for the crime: http://www.crimemapping.com/map.aspx...7-17f60e517d9d
fun fact: this is all 12-29-2010 till this day. Which is pretty shocking.

**Hermod** · January-05-11, 11:20 AM

Growing up in the area Morang-Harper-Whittier-Kelly in 1941 to 1954, we never really had a name for the area. We always said "east side" or "Six Mile and Harper". Our house deed said "Nottingham Highlands" though it was perfectly flat.

Six Mile and Gratiot was where we went to church, our second most convenient library, and the great Ramona Theater. It was also where you changed from the Six Mile bus to the Gratiot streetcar [[and later bus) to go downtown.

\

**PGC** · January-06-11, 11:11 PM

I just wanted to thank everybody who replied again, I enjoyed reading it and I learned alot.

I saw somebody in another thread recommend the book "Detroit Beginnings: Early Villages and Old Neighborhoods". I just got it in the mail today, its very interesting and I'd recommend it to anyone if you want to learn more about the history of some of the more obscure parts of the city.

**Bella** · January-06-11, 11:51 PM

PGC, I noticed Eliza Howell is on your list. Eliza Howell is [[was) a park. The last time I was in Detroit I noticed that it was closed and turned into something else. Someone else here might be able to tell you what it is now.
It is connected to the Brightmoor neighborhood. You can go to youtube and do a search for Brightmoor, as there are ton of videos.

gdogslim · January-07-11, 01:21 AM

re: pgc Question about neighborhoods

WOW, for being from Maryland and having a fascination with the D you sure know how to tag the neighborhoods, Are you sure you do not work for Biden or some other democrat trying to get a read on what people think so you can float a trial balloon ???

**socks_mahoney** · February-11-11, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Delray

Speaking of which, the current Metrotimes has an article on 48217 -- the southernmost part of the city -- and says: "Several of the 48217's neighborhoods have stable, well-kept housing with block club signs welcoming visitors; other areas are more dilapidated. The area known as "The Hole," is notorious for its criminal enterprises."

QUESTION: Can anyone tell me where "The Hole" is?

The Hole was an area that ran roughly from 14th St to 30th St along Buchanan and grand river and adjacent streets south of 94. Its more formally known as "core cities", though some areas of Western woodbridge would have been part of it too.

Some folks recently brought the name back with a park in the neighborhood called "The Hole".