Time for Federal Troops

**socks_mahoney** · December-23-10, 09:05 PM

I second that.

citylover · December-23-10, 09:09 PM

I know of no other time federal troops were called in other then Little Rock Ark when Pres Ike sent the 101st airborne in to bring order to the desegregation of the Little Rock high school. Up to that time the troops were brought in the Ark national guard were in charge.....they were nothing more then friends and chums of the viscous racists that prevented the black students from entering the school.Some say Eisenhower waited too long but eventually he had enough of Gov Faubus's defiance and ordered in the 101st .

In his book ..." The Fifties" David Halberstam gives a stirring description of the scene. Crowds gathered and started their usual racist taunts and assault expecting the same good old boy response from the 101st. Instead they were met with fixed bayonets at their throats with the understanding that they would leave one way or another.

Sorry to threadjack.I sympathize with the frustration and have long believed crime is not being dealt with in Detroit the way it should be.

Whoops troops were in detroit in 67 either way the feds are always better behaved then the guard at least back in those days......not intending to offend anyone

DC48080 · December-23-10, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by 13074Glenfield

There's little doubt that the situation in Detroit seems to be out of control, but the citizens of Detroit need to take responsibility for this. The city needs to control itself

The city, unfortunately, cannot control itself. The good and decent people in Detroit, who are the majority of the people, are at the mercy of and living in fear of the thugs, gangbangers, drug runners and thieves that rule many of the neighborhoods. Ever hear of the whole "stop snitching" thing?

Honest and decent people are getting murdered by lowlife thugs, or "Urban Terrorists" who don't give a damn about human life.

Look at that poor 70 year old man who died in that firebombing this morning on Manistique where the urban terrorist firebombed three adjacent houses because he was unsure which one his target lived in.

lilpup · December-23-10, 10:11 PM

The city can control itself if it makes the effort. Start by getting rid of most of the liquor licenses, thus avoid most of the bar fights and associated bullshit.

DC48080 · December-23-10, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

The city can control itself if it makes the effort. Start by getting rid of most of the liquor licenses, thus avoid most of the bar fights and associated bullshit.

I hardly believe that the violence that is so ingrained in Detroit culture emanates from barroom fights. I think it has more to do with turf wars and people thinking that they have been "disrespected" by other folks.

**reddog289** · December-23-10, 10:26 PM

Just like everything else in this city it shouldn't have ended up like this, With people even having to think about calling in the Army to stop crime.

DC48080 · December-23-10, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by reddog289

Just like everything else in this city it shouldn't have ended up like this, With people even having to think about calling in the Army to stop crime.

Very true. But it has. Now what?

**Meddle** · December-23-10, 10:52 PM

If you think we were killing machines, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Ask the kids at Kent State about that.

citylover · December-23-10, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

If you think we were killing machines, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Ask the kids at Kent State about that.

Again National guard not federal troops

Vox · December-23-10, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by citylover

Again National guard not federal troops

You\'d do better with federal troops, trust me.

**BrushStart** · December-23-10, 11:39 PM

Detroit has 2,080 full-time police officers on patrol. The size of the city is roughly 140 square miles. Therefore, there are approximately 15 patrol officers/sq. mile. If you assume that each officer works one 8-hour shift per day, there are 5 officers/sq mile on duty at any given time. Each officer costs the city approximately $138,000/year, which includes salary, benefits, equipment, administrative costs, oversight, etc. I say, double the number of patrol officers to 4,160, which would mean that there are 30 officers/sq. mile or 10 police officers on patrol per square mile at all times of day, every day. The city's yearly budget is roughly 3 billion dollars, and the current budget for the entire Detroit Police Department is roughly $480,000,000, or 16% of the total budget. Doubling the number of patrol officers to 4,160 would cost an additional $287,000,000 [[or potentially less), thereby increasing the total police budget to $767,000,000 or 25.5% of the total budget. I haven't looked at what could be cut [[obviously not fire), or if debt could be sold to make up the difference, but I think that having 10 uniformed and patrolling officers/sq. mile at all times would significantly reduce crime. How could anyone commit a crime with that many officers around? Even if the cops were just standing around waiting to bust people, they'd see everything. I'd imagine that violent crime would all but disappear. Couple that with the crime-mapping strategies employed in NYC in the 1980s, and Detroit would be one of the safest cities in America 2-5 years out.

**TKshreve** · December-24-10, 12:10 AM

Detroit would be one of the safest cities in America 2-5 years out.

And then 2-5 years after that, businesses would begin considerations to move in. The solutions to the problems will take a long time to have positive impact. On top of that it will take serious commitments on everyones behalf. That includes our city officials down to every citizen. I don't see that happening. Plus you will need jobs to deter the thug life. And money. Lots and lots of free money.

Sorry folks, our society is not geared that way anymore. This is a one way ticket. I actually have more faith that aliens will land here and save our reckless way of living before we as one unit wake up and begin fixing things.

**Russix** · December-24-10, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by eastjohn

The violence in Detroit needs to stop now, not tomorrow, not after another blue ribbon committee meets.Bing along with the Governor need to announce a state of emergency in the city of Detroit and demand Federal Troops be brought in.Detroit is an American City. There is no execuse for Detroit to continue with daily murders, fires, bombings, rapes, burning bodies, and entire city blocks destroyed.The time for Federal Troops is NOW!

Without reading any replies to this statement, I will make this reply.
Federal Troops are the equivlent to delcaring marital law. The last time we did that, I believe we only used fire to fight fire, keep digging in the idea box. Now I'll catch up and post again.

**Russix** · December-24-10, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by citylover

...

In his book ..." The Fifties" David Halberstam gives a stirring description of the scene. Crowds gathered and started their usual racist taunts and assault expecting the same good old boy response from the 101st. Instead they were met with fixed bayonets at their throats with the understanding that they would leave one way or another.

God bless America! And yet some asshole said the pen was mightier than the sword!

**Thruster315** · December-24-10, 02:10 AM

I dunno. I seriously think that this thread is absolutely bogus and there's not even one iota bit of sensibility started by eastjohn. I think he just wants to fan the flames,get people riled, and stir the shit around.

**Russix** · December-24-10, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by eastjohn

Peeps, the jobs wont return until the violence stops. Stopping the violence is the first step in rebuilding Detroit. Does anyone object then to remaking STRESS?

Look eastjohn, you gotta stop looking at our problem as being solvable by some huge outside intervention/occupation force. You need to organize with your neighbors to put eyes on the street to reduce crime like I do. This is Detroit, you can't depend on anyone except the people who you may call neighbors to wage a mutual struggle against crime. You can't solve the whole city's crime problem, no one has been able to do that, but you can protect your community. Make the problem smaller and more personal, than the solutions come more easily than some citywide complex mess.

**jtf1972** · December-24-10, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by canuck

The key word here is Demand.

Detroiters as far as I can tell are not demanding enough. Not just in regard to security but everything else. State and Federal governments need to step in, but forget the National Guard and the Army. Why no talk of more police? Hiring more police via federal funding. Bring back troops from Afghanistan and put money in policing.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

The armed services are a bit busy at the moment. Federal funding of law enforcement should be even more important than fighting wars on foreign soil. They call it HOMELAND Security. Shouldn't the DEFENSE Department care more about defending the nations cities from threats both foreign and domestic? We're busy trying to secure city streets and innocent citizens on the other side of the globe, but back home we stretch the dollar so thin that we can't keep as many law officers on the street as we have now.

We need to take care of our own back yard first, THEN help out our neighbors in this world.

**showstoppa** · December-24-10, 02:45 AM

seriously, drastic times call for drastic measures ! we're at the point that even Burger King isn't safe to go to [[2 murders there) people are fire bombing 3 houses to insure that 1 of them is the one they're looking for ! Detroit has turned into a place where it isn't safe to raise a family ! now I'm african-american myself, and I'm not opposed to some sort reformed STRESS reincarnation ! the criminals are living as if they don't have a care in the world ! it's time the good citizens do the same ! and we're the one's that have the resources !

**jtf1972** · December-24-10, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by Russix

Look eastjohn, you gotta stop looking at our problem as being solvable by some huge outside intervention/occupation force. You need to organize with your neighbors to put eyes on the street to reduce crime like I do. This is Detroit, you can't depend on anyone except the people who you may call neighbors to wage a mutual struggle against crime. You can't solve the whole city's crime problem, no one has been able to do that, but you can protect your community. Make the problem smaller and more personal, than the solutions come more easily than some citywide complex mess.

This is all true. Crime doesn't pop out of thin air & cause people to act like criminals. We have a lot to do personally to prevail against it, but socially much more can be done than by any few. Education is extremely important. Frankly, I think we all feel safer if we though the Mercedes next to us at a light appears to be filled with doctors rather than dropouts.

When it comes down to it, Detroit is undermanned in the PD, FD & EMS. With just over 2000 officers in uniform [[not all of whom are on the street,) the DPD is at roughly 1/2 the staff it was at the time of the '67 riot. While the population has significantly dropped the city is exactly the same size it was in 1967. I'm no math expert, but it seems to me that just as badly as we need to work together as communities, we really could use more of the groups that help to keep us safe on a professional level on the street.

**Meddle** · December-24-10, 06:32 AM

I haven't looked at what could be cut

Eliminating salaries for the Mayor and Council until tangible positive progress is clearly evident would be a start.

muskie1 · December-24-10, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Eliminating salaries for the Mayor and Council until tangible positive progress is clearly evident would be a start.

I agree, I think all politicians need to be on a preformance based pay structure. There is an old saying "Nothing happens until something gets sold." Our leaders are trying to sell us their services when we vote for them and if they can't provide they shoud not be paid.
The number of people emplyoyed in non-essential areas needs to be cut and the funding directed to police and fire.

**skyl4rk** · December-24-10, 07:51 AM

The State of Michigan does not have the money to keep all of the criminals in jail.

Detroit could be made much safer by expanding the police force and cracking down on violent crime, but it would be expensive. Should Detroiters pay for it? It is clear that the City cannot. Because this cancer of crime affects the region, all of Southeast Michigan should be paying for police protection in Detroit, including incarceration.

Once the police protection is in place, then start to work on the root causes for crime: create jobs, encourage two parent families, support education. These strategies take time and may not work when thugs control the streets.

There may be other ways to work against drugs and thug life mentality. There is no silver bullet but until police protection is improved, the other attempts will fail.

The State is the only government entity that has enough power to solve this problem, there needs to be a regional tax on the entire Detroit Metro Area to support police protection in Detroit.

**BrushStart** · December-24-10, 10:05 AM

If you read my post above, I'm not sure that Detroit has too few police for the size of the city. Right now there are about 15 cops per every square mile [[not including investigators, desk officers, and top brass), which means that if each patrol officer works an 8 hour shift, you have five uniformed beat cops actually on patrol for each sq. mile every single day. As I suggested above, the concentration of police may be the problem, not the actual number. Above, I calculated the cost of doubling the number of patrol officers on duty so that there could be 10 officers constantly patrolling each square mile of Detroit. If the city did that for a full year, we could begin to scale back once crime-mapping was done and police presence could be concentrated in high crime areas.

**GOAT** · December-24-10, 10:34 AM

Were full-time troops used during the riots or just National Guard? I'm not sure what people mean by "Federal".
I think it would be a very good idea to have the Full-time army here for about 3 years. All of the policing they have learned in Iraq and Afghanistan would only make this situation better.

I like this idea better than allowing the inmates to run the asylum.

**milesdriven** · December-24-10, 10:44 AM

I don't think that lack of officers is the problem, I think it's officers who don't give a damn because they don't live in the city. A friend had a car stolen over the summer, and we took her up to the NW district to make a report. It took almost two hours to make the report, she was the only one in the station waiting, and six officers were standing around talking to each other or on their cell phones about personal business. What finally made them take the report was when I called the State Police post asking if we could make the report there as DPD wasn't helping us.