Is Grid Heat a Human Right - A DTE Question

[English]

I'm on BudgetWise billing, too. Love it -- this way, my bill is 100% consistent each month.

I used to get a reconciliation month in July or August where I'd have a very low bill, zero owed, or even a small credit [[in 2007), but lately, they've been dividing the estimated amount by 12 instead of 11 [[according to DTE customer service, which made little sense to me).

[wolverine]

Here's my answer. Yes and No.

If you are that broke and poor and live in a tiny house or small apartment [[that is all you can afford) okay....fine. If you live in 1500 square foot house or more, I'd say heck no!! Why? Because I'm a working professional living in a 750 square foot apartment. The heat is part of my rent. I pay for it. Why should someone who is broke who owns / rents more square footage [[to heat) than I do get the right to free utilities? Hey how about, downgrade to a smaller place that you can:
Afford to pay rent on
Pay less in energy bills because it's smaller.

[1KielsonDrive]

Here's my answer. Yes and No.

If you are that broke and poor and live in a tiny house or small apartment [[that is all you can afford) okay....fine. If you live in 1500 square foot house or more, I'd say heck no!! Why? Because I'm a working professional living in a 750 square foot apartment. The heat is part of my rent. I pay for it. Why should someone who is broke who owns / rents more square footage [[to heat) than I do get the right to free utilities? Hey how about, downgrade to a smaller place that you can:
Afford to pay rent on
Pay less in energy bills because it's smaller.

Hey, good point. One drawback - some people owning larger homes are in as bad a shape as everyone else. They don't have a job, don't have unemployment, and own a home they might not be able to give away. I live in a condo that I'd hate to ever leave. I'm on a lake - water surrounds me. It was modestly priced and of modest size. In this economy, I can't sell it for a fraction of what I paid for it. Because I'm unemployed, I can't get a loan despite having substantial equity. I'm only using my situation as an example. I don't need assistance but know plenty who do. Your scenario would probably require a case by case assessment.

[wolverine]

Yes, but the difference is you have options [[though highly undesirable) you can at least make it through the winter by either selling your home dirt cheap or possibly renting it

As for the people who I believe deserve reductions in their utilities bills are people who have no possible solutions

[Wingnatic]

I remember being on a budget plan [[pay the same amount every month) years ago and I think they based that on prior useage . But I also remember at the end of a year more was used and you gotta pay that difference . I love how the State takes care of us , especially when determining our auto insurance rates based on our credit scores and zip codes . After a long battle that was deemed illegal , and just like that in a matter of a few months , some numbnut judge overturned that law lol

[East Detroit]

Here's a link that apparently most of you would have no need for and probably a disdain for.

However, to those who aren't spoiled brats...

http://www.thawfund.org/

[Wesley Mouch]

I saw in the paper today that IIRC DTE and Consumers to get raise their rates due to non-payments.So anyone who pays their bill gets to subsidize others who don't.Thanks MPSC!!

This is true. The utilities track their uncollectibles, and they are used as a factor to set rates.

MichCon [[DTE now) kindly shows you how much you pay for uncollectibles right on your bill! Its called the Uncollectible Expense True-Up Mechanism [[UTEM-2008). They show it as about $3.50 per typical customer [[$91/mo) for 2008. That's about $40 a year.

I'm sure the 2009 and 2010 amounts [[which may be baked-into rates) are greater. Quick look suggests about double. So the average rate-payer is probably contributing about $80 or more a year to 'human rights' as it stands now.

[1KielsonDrive]

Yes, but the difference is you have options [[though highly undesirable) you can at least make it through the winter by either selling your home dirt cheap or possibly renting it

As for the people who I believe deserve reductions in their utilities bills are people who have no possible solutions

Who would you sell to? I know of people who aren't even able to give their houses away. There are homes in areas, not ghetto's, so to speak, that even investors aren't touching. This is a buyer's market. Not all very large homes are valuable. Some properties aren't worth their taxable value and only have value as shelter. Close off the whole house and live in one room? Done. Take in others to cover costs? Done. This isn't a purely black and white [[so to speak) situation. Your ideas and concepts put together with those of others might have value. But who would enforce them? Government, including law and code enforcementis being forced to downsize.

[1KielsonDrive]

I'll use Ypsilanti Township as a quick example. When I moved to Ford Lake 8 years ago, Ypsi Twp was the boomtown of Washtenaw County. Build, build, build. It all crashed with the meltdown and GM Willow Run plant closing. Ypsi Twp lost millions of taxes. There are many large, nice homes [[relative terms - I don't care for McMansions in subs) that are in foreclosure and/or sitting vacant. Some people walked away. Those homes aren't even sellable. At least not in this economy.

[9mile&seneca]

What about Dewar's White label? Am I expected to do without access to a premium blended Scotch just because I couldn't postpone having children until I found gainful employment?

[hhockey]

First it is not a human right. As much as we hate DTE they are in the business to make money, not give free service. I agree that power being shut off can be tragic, but how many people go out and buy lottery tickets, a six pack and their beloved cigarettes instead of using the money to pay a gas bill? You cant say it doesnt happen as i have seen it first hand. I'm not saying all people do that but i believe some priorites are misplaced.

[iheartthed]

First it is not a human right. As much as we hate DTE they are in the business to make money, not give free service. I agree that power being shut off can be tragic, but how many people go out and buy lottery tickets, a six pack and their beloved cigarettes instead of using the money to pay a gas bill? You cant say it doesnt happen as i have seen it first hand. I'm not saying all people do that but i believe some priorites are misplaced.

Why does it matter that some people go buy lottery tickets instead of paying their utility bill? Unless every single person who doesn't pay their utility bill spends their money on lottery tickets instead, I don't see how it's even relevant that some people do it.

[9mile&seneca]

Why does it matter that some people go buy lottery tickets instead of paying their utility bill? Unless every single person who doesn't pay their utility bill spends their money on lottery tickets instead, I don't see how it's even relevant that some people do it.

People should buy whatever they want with their money.

[1KielsonDrive]

First it is not a human right. As much as we hate DTE they are in the business to make money, not give free service. I agree that power being shut off can be tragic, but how many people go out and buy lottery tickets, a six pack and their beloved cigarettes instead of using the money to pay a gas bill? You cant say it doesnt happen as i have seen it first hand. I'm not saying all people do that but i believe some priorites are misplaced.

The very government that is privatizing it's services, granting monopolies to companies like DTE, and not only encouraging lottery participation, but selling and profiting from it too, should require basic services to be provided to people unable to care for themselves. In this economy, that is a lot of people. Please don't use the Ronald Reagan argument that because you saw it once or twice, or even a thousand times, means it's true across our country and society, as a whole. 'I saw a black woman driving a cadillac and using food stamps, so it must be true that they are all 'cadillac driving, welfare mothers'. I have no doubt you've seen it - I have too. Rich people do it too. And they just got another tax cut. How many of us got pay raises, or even have a paycheck?

[1KielsonDrive]

First it is not a human right. As much as we hate DTE they are in the business to make money, not give free service. I agree that power being shut off can be tragic, but how many people go out and buy lottery tickets, a six pack and their beloved cigarettes instead of using the money to pay a gas bill? You cant say it doesnt happen as i have seen it first hand. I'm not saying all people do that but i believe some priorites are misplaced.

Also, if these huge corporations are strictly in the business to make money, why do so many of them give inordinantly large pay/bonus packages to their top brass? This amounts to billions of dollars. That's profit that could go to the stockholders, employees and their charitable foundations. Nardelli left Home Depot as a failure and he received a quarter of a billion dollars. He then was rewarded the top job at Chrysler.

[DanFromDetroit]

People should buy whatever they want with their money.

Yeah - I choose heat. Then again if I choose smokes and beer I probably wouldn't complain when DTE gives me the boot in February

[RYANGUARD]

In the newspaper article yesterday it said that a house in Milford with 9500 SQ Ft had their electricity shut off due to having it hooked up illegally.I imagine that even with a fireplace,the Heat and Electric bills had to be outrageous!They may have gotten the house at a rather reasonable price due to a foreclosure or short sale and didn't quite realize what it would cost when those utility bills came in the winter.Even the illegal hookups are in affluent areas!!!

[13074Glenfield]

Move to Minnesota where it's illegal for the gas company to cut you off in the winter. Then you can stiff the gas company all winter long and not have to worry until spring. Of course, they cut you off on the first day possible and you cannot get the gas turned back on until you pay up. Which most people seem to do. Just sayin'.

[hhockey]

It matters when the lottery is more important than having your heat stay on. The revelant issue is: do I have heat or do I buy lottery tickets. I'm not saying that people can't buy lottery tickets, beer, cigarettes etc. but don't whine when you can't afford to pay your gas bill.

[1KielsonDrive]

It matters when the lottery is more important than having your heat stay on. The revelant issue is: do I have heat or do I buy lottery tickets. I'm not saying that people can't buy lottery tickets, beer, cigarettes etc. but don't whine when you can't afford to pay your gas bill.

Okay Mister Tough Guy. Don't whine when any bad luck or circumstances come your way. Cancer? You shoudn't have been breathing the air. An auto accident? You should've been driving safer and not in the place you were in. A job loss? You should've been a better employee. Your ticket doesn't win? You shouldn't have bought it. The Wings lose? Tough, you should've been rooting for the other team. It's all so black and white and oh, so, easy.

[muskie1]

Okay Mister Tough Guy. Don't whine when any bad luck or circumstances come your way. Cancer? You shoudn't have been breathing the air. An auto accident? You should've been driving safer and not in the place you were in. A job loss? You should've been a better employee. Your ticket doesn't win? You shouldn't have bought it. The Wings lose? Tough, you should've been rooting for the other team. It's all so black and white and oh, so, easy.

I have to disagrree. I had a good job, lost it when the gov. got involved. I saved up my 18 months of money in an emergency fund. When I worked I bought disability insurance,so there goes medical problems. I ran out of money and once had my heat shut off. Did I deserve special treatment,hell no. If you can't pay there is little you should expect in the way of a free ride from a utility. I guess next time I can call my car insurance company when I can't pay a premium because I have to drive to get my food.
Do I agree it sucks,yep, been there. Maybe the utilities can offer shut off insurance. I now live somewhere that I do not have to pay for heat and happy not to have to worry about it.

[DetroitPole]

On this Christmas please remember that Jesus heaped no condemnation on the poor but instead was born as and spent his life as one of them.

[East Detroit]

This thread gets the codespeak honeypot award of the week.

[DetroitDad]

Actually, there are plenty of people who do believe in [[and few who have protested in favor of) making driving and flying viewed as a right. They generally use the Priveleges and Immunities Clause of the U.S. Constitution. They tend to use Corfield v. Coryell [[1823), in which the Supreme Court recognized freedom of movement as a Constitutional right. The the Court has defined freedom of movement as "the right of free ingress into other States, and egress from them." Basically, given that many places lack mass transit and/or ample rail connections, and have banned hitch hiking, flying and driving is the only realistic way to move between states. Therefore, they believe that driving and flying, as well as the fuel and infrastructure which support them, are in fact rights.

On the other hand is Air-conditioning a human right too?What's next?DTE is a Corporation providing a service which is electricity and natural gas.Can we expect other corporations to follow suit.Is gasoline a human right?I don't like paying $3 a gallon.Can we protest that too?I could go on and on.......

[tallboy66]

Well it's good to hear that DTE is not letting things get behind I hope that means they are reading the meters inside the apartments every month, I got stuck with someone else's bill after moving from another apt. in the same building.