Fleeing Manhattan

[iheartthed]

That is a B.S. generalization. Both New York and Detroit's best days are not only behind them, but are also ahead of them. Once again, economies and the conditions of places are not forever. Furthermore, New York may be a place to be if you have resources [[riches) and are ambitious. However, Detroit is the place to be if you are relatively poor, young, don't wan't to acquire new debt, and are still ambitious.

If Detroit's best days are ahead of her, that sure isn't the perception that is projected by the local politicians and press. That's my point. As I said before, Detroit's best days are spoken of in the past tense and that's not attractive to people who are attracted to a city like New York.

[Lowell]

I too fled Manhattan. Well sort of. In the mid-1970's there was a mini-mass migration of Detroit artists to Manhattan that saw the exodus of many of my fellow and sister artists. I too considered the move and made a couple of exploratory trips.

At that time one could still move to areas of lower Manhattan that were still, to borrow the term of this thread, gritty. Greenwich Village and Soho were already trendy and rapidly gentrifying but Tribeca and the Bowery were still down and out, relatively inexpensive and that is where the Detroit diaspora was moving into with Magoo's Bar as its watering hole.

Yet even there, to my spoiled Detroit eyes, the buildings were dreadful, rat-infested and overpriced, with the looming threat of eviction if it became trendy. Jobs were sparse and poorly paid. What I discovered was that almost all my friends were working ridiculous hours to pay ridiculous rents and, bottom line, were not making art. So I fled Manhattan and returned to Detroit.

Instead I bought an 3000 sq. ft. arts and crafts beauty in Highland Park on a $150 a month land contract, made it co-op, rented out rooms and, bottom line, made art.

That was the economic reason for fleeing. The other was spiritual. Unless one is buried completely in one's own mind and fantasies, art is highly influenced by one's surroundings and its challenges. What I found in Manhattan were a lot of aspiring artists from everywhere but Manhattan, disconnected from their environment and largely trying to tack [copy] onto the current hot trends.

For me Detroit, with its ever-present rapid transformations and challenges was far more exciting. We use to dub it "The Detroit fist in the face". The artists were, and still are, immersed in a virtual revolution of society and urbanism and embedded in the fabric of the total community. As a result arrogance was minimized and sincerity maximized. I mean, how could you be an arrogant artist and be from Detroit. Right?

So it is rather heartening to see other are getting what I and others got. Detroit might be a very troubled, problematic and dreary place to the average eye, but to an artist's eye it is terribly exciting and always inspiring.

[BrushStart]

So, as an... I'll say it, as a stupid hipster* who semi-recently moved here, allow me to note that I've been meeting other creative/bookish young people who also did so in increasing numbers. But then again, those numbers are somewhere around a total of ten; the anecdotes just stand out sharply against a sea of having to constantly explain "Yes, I came here by choice. Yes. I like it. Really. Thanks for your mock apology." Buuuut then again, there has definitely been noticeable interest among my nationally scattered friends about my new home.

I used Portland as a point of contrast when I tried to explain to people why I would be moving here, and I'd hate to see us become that city. Like all proper hipsters, I revile my own kind above all else. [[Quietly hoping jokey tone is evident here.) I love Portland's transit and the food and the ubiquitous bookstores, but after a week there I wanted so badly to be back in a city with some real character, a city where diversity consists of something besides differences between who is the veganest vegan or the most correct feminist. That said, uh, gee.... Here on the East Side, I sure would love it if somebody would move into any one of the hundreds of vacant houses I pass every day and breathe life into it. It'd be nice to have extra hands helping us lift, to put it in the loosest terms. And oh my god, after repeated attempts with the Mack Bus, damn do I pine for transit that at least tries to show up.

New York is a magnet for young creatives, but there is also something to be said for being a slightly bigger fish in a slightly smaller pond. I sometimes wonder how my life would have been different if I'd stayed in Chicago rather than spending a few years in redlined parts of St. Louis and then moving here, but damned if you don't get interesting opportunities in places that are thirsty for talent.

* Shut up, these glasses are totally prescription.

Great story and great perspective. I really dig people with an attitude like yours. Although I personally do not fit the "hipster" mold, I can definitely relate to the pioneering mindset, where creating something different/carving out something new and or unique, even if it is in a traditional way seems like a worthwhile endeavor.

[Lowell]

Great story and great perspective. I really dig people with an attitude like yours. Although I personally do not fit the "hipster" mold, I can definitely relate to the pioneering mindset, where creating something different/carving out something new and or unique, even if it is in a traditional way seems like a worthwhile endeavor.

I second that emotion and welcome you and all who are drawn to our international metropolis with all its challenges and promises. I mildly detest the term hipster but you can rest assured that those who fling that term about are dealing more with their insecurities than saying anything substantial about you, of which they know nothing anyway.

[wolverine]

I think something we can all agree with, is that what helped improve neighborhoods in New York, was an incoming creative class, with not a lot of money, but helped make something out of nothing. The same kind of people Detroit needs.

Soon those neighborhoods gentrify and they move out and on to a new place....some people will lament this, but it's not exactly a bad thing. It's a part of normal city growth. It's the reason why cities like NYC and Chicago have become such magnet cities for people with money....someone else paved the way.

There is such a thing as working poor.... just sayin'...

Yes, as long as people are working. Personally, I don't believe Detroit needs $500,000 lofts and condos to become a great city. It really is the people who don't have a lot of money, but have great ideas that will help rebuild the city. It's certainly affordable and presents alot of opportunities....and challenges.

[JJD]

It is getting trendier, whether or not we decide to believe it. A young couple moved in 3 doors down from us from Delaware. When we asked why, they said, we want to get in on the ground level of a place where things are happening. We think Detroit is that place and this is the ground level. Whether or not they are correct is a different story, but I love the enthusiam and positive outlook they have. I for one am going to do my best to encourage and support them, instead of going on a tirade of negativity as to why Detroit isn't coming back, and they are foolish. As Detroit we need to encourage these people to embrace our community. That is the only thing that will affect the change we all desire.

[casscorridor]

I think Detroit would be attracting and retaining way more of these hipster/creatives if the city was more dense, more urban. I know it has been said, but if there was walkable neighborhoods with decent transit, grocery stores, and other ammenities then more of these people would choose to make the move.

Detroit already has a good rep among these types. They are told it is the next Brooklyn. The next Portland. But when they get here, they are usualy suprised... and not in a good way. The urban lifestyle they want is not available here.

Some folks will come anyway, and try to make something of it. But the reason they stay is because it is f-ed up, not because its a "nice" or "hip" place to live. They stay for the adventure, the pure grit and grime and desolation. But how long? They might pack up and leave once all the destruction and poverty and lack of ammenities finaly gets to them and it becomes an obsticle to creativity rather than an inspiration.

Yeah, post-apocalyptic post-industrial landscapes may look cool, but they aren't exactly fun to live in.

Even the hoods that are indeed nice places like Corktown are limited. There is an extremely scarce amount of housing available. So even if 100 artists wanted to move in, they couldn't. There simply is not enough housing. And many "good" areas like these are often just as expensive as living in Bushwick or other "questionable" yet hip areas of Brooklyn, but without the ammenities of transit and close proximity to restaurants and grocery stores, not to mention thousands of others artists and musicians within a small area.

Detroit needs to take some cues from other cities and rapidly struggle to build both density and transit within its core neighborhoods or else we'll be in the same boat 20, 30 years down the line.

[fryar]

The density is what it is, you can really only make changes on the fringes, right? But as a NYC expat in the making [[didn't know I was among such company, though, I must hang with gentrifiers), I agree with a lot of what has been said on this thread. You say bigger fish in a smaller pond, I say New York is a great place to consume, and Detroit is a great place to produce.

I will say that I don't know how artists can make it, unless they're established enough to live off their art. I should think the line for even retail jobs goes all the way down the block and then some, at this point.

[DetroitDad]

During the long post [[sorry), please keep in mind that I live in what has been considered by some, to be one of the "worst" high rise in the Detroit Central Business District [[CBD).

Generally, I wake up sometime after a morning walk or jog from Grand Circus Park to Campus Martius Park, and then back to my two bedroom apartment/makeshift low income loft over ten stories over Detroit's CBD. That jog sometimes includes picking up a gallon of milk or breakfast sandwich on the way. The cafe in my building, as well as the grand lobby, always seem to be filled with young people on laptops or reading. This is clearly our little social coffee shop in our corner of Downtown.

Both a convenience store and cafe are on the first floor of my building. When Detroit Mom is pregnant or one of us is watching the little one, we generally strap her in the stroller, walk downstairs, and get whatever we need. There is no car rides necessary, no buckling children in car seats. This is important to us, because we are a one car household who is getting the best out of our two door compact car.

I usually walk to work, but sometimes take the 53 up Woodward to work. We live near both the Rosa Parks Transit Center and a People Mover stop. During times of inclement weather, I swing down a block to the People Mover and jump on for a short ride to the Grand Circus Station, where I can walk under the track [[avoiding rain) to the transit stops. The bus is not luxurious, but it isn't as bad as they say. The buses are only a few minutes apart. It takes me no more than five extra minutes to do this than to drive, and saves about thirty from walking.

On the way to work, I pass shop keepers, elevator riders, desk clerks, parking lot attendants, and transit riders and operators, all generally friendly enough to have small talk with. I have made some nice friends just on my commute to work.

Working in Midtown, less than a mile away, is nice. At lunch, there are many choices for food within walking distance. There are pharmacies, my bank, a Radio Shack, convenience stores, and clothing stores to stop at if needed. Occasionally, I run over to Kim's Produce and pick up some fruit and veggies to juice at the office.

Sometimes I do my work [[not often) in the main library, or just stop to get a good book.

On the way home, I sometimes stop for groceries at the produce place, deli/butcher, a CVS, or a convenience store. Occasionally I have to go the extra quarter mile to the full service grocery store, though that is rare. There is also a hardware store and locksmith on the way home.

Once I get home I sometimes take my daughter to blog with me in the park. Grand Circus Park is always alive with people walking dogs, while Campus Martius Park tends to have more families and tourists. There are homeless people about, but I find most of them friendly, and found that most are decent enough to not ask for change when they see you every day, and you have a little one.

While my daughter is just getting old enough to play at the playground, my building does not have one. However, at least two other Downtown buildings that we are looking into do have playgrounds for kids [[Riverfront Towers has recently built a pretty extensive one, actually). Other days, Detroit Mom and I pop on the People Mover to the Broadway Station, and go utilize the play room/child care at the Boll Family YMCA for an hour, while we work out. Other times, we take our daughter to the indoor swimming pool. Still other times, we take the People Mover over to the Renaissance Center, stopping at the candy shop before we let Baby Girl play with the throngs of children on the Riverwalk. Other days we go to Greektown for a diner and a treat at Astoria. This is all of course, not even considering the events at the Downtown library, Campus Martius [[family movie nights mainly) or sporting and theater events.

We have a nearby baby sitter who is just awesome. Admittedly, she was very tough to find, but worth the hassle. Sometimes Detroit Mom go out on a date night. We go to ballets at the Opera House, dinner and a movie, the casino, or a museum/art exhibit. Sometimes we just go get ice cream and sit and people watch in Campus Martius Park, or play a board game in the grand lobby of our building. All the while we are out, we know we are literally blocks from home. Our home of course, has cab stands outside, and is a short cab ride from all emergency services, should an emergency occur. While Detroit seems to be known for slow response times, the cabs provide some peace of mind.

Even after all this, there is even another angle to this with Detroit Mom's home office. There are benefits to locating your home office in the Central Business District, but this post is long enough as is.

So, is Detroit perfect? Far from it! However, me and mine have made it work just fine for us.

[Lowell]

Great description of downtown Detroit living Detroit Dad. Interestingly it doesn't sound that much different from friends I have living raising kids in Manhattan, Chicago and other destinations, although most of them did not have cars.

[stromberg2]

Wow, that was a great post DD, Detroit has it's problems, but it sure sounds good with that post. Nice job!

Stromberg2

[canuck]

Detroitdad, that is inspiring because you have identified all the stuff you need and not harped on the negatives. You have earned a right to complain about Detroit because of your resourcefulness and enthusiasm. Your complaints only serve to focus on what the city needs to better itself, and therefore not another useless putdown. Bravo mon ami!

[English]

DetroitDad, I second/third the praise and envy the lifestyle. You really ought to think about writing an op-ed for one of the papers. [[Also wish that eventually someone would film a documentary about what it's like to be an urban white professional living in the city -- a "day in the life," of sorts.)

[1KielsonDrive]

I've tried my hand in a number of places over a few decades, San Francisco being the last. Nice city. Way too hip to be totally comfortable, but I enjoyed it anyway. I never liked the self proclaimed [[local radio station) moniker, 'The Best Spot on Earth'. Quite conceited. If not for the tech bubble, I might still be there. I had plenty of work, good local connections as well as a circle of friends from back home. When my house burned, I experienced a day to day, month to month, battle to find another place to live, often not knowing where I'd sleep or if I could get to work. One of the most difficult experiences in my life. Blocks long housing interview lines, charges to run credit reports, age discrimination, hipness discrimination, etc, etc. It was fun until that point.

[blackmath]

DetroitDad, I second/third the praise and envy the lifestyle. You really ought to think about writing an op-ed for one of the papers. [[Also wish that eventually someone would film a documentary about what it's like to be an urban white professional living in the city -- a "day in the life," of sorts.)

It's been done. It's called "The Mary Tyler Moore Show"

While I hope that Detroit fills in and gets denser with reliable transit options, etc, I just hope that the city doesn't lose its blue collar, gritty ethos. Upthread someone mentioned what gentrification has done to Portland and I sincerely hope that this does not - under any circumstances happen to this city.

[maxx]

McSorley's is still alive and well in NYC.
http://www.mcsorleysnewyork.com/

[BrushStart]

I found this on ModelD from 2005: http://www.modeldmedia.com/features/NYC2DET.aspx Perhaps it is not a recent phenom as I thought. However, I very much agree with the writer about our inferiority complex and pessimistic attitude. We really don't know all we've got here.

[reddog289]

Thanks for the link maxx.I like old bars