More Catholic parishes in Detroit to close

[jackie5275]

As one example do the people who need the church the most need two churches that are 2/10ths of a mile apart which is the case with St. Joesphat and Sweetest Heart of Mary? I attended mass at St. Joesphat a few months ago and I don't think there were 25 people for that mass.

That was a big reason for the big first round of parish closings in the 1980s. Too many churches too close together in neighborhoods. In addition to the 2 you mention above, St. Albertus is probably another 2/10s of a mile east of Sweetest Heart of Mary. Seventy or 80 years ago, the population of the city, along with parish boundaries could support 3 churches within a one mile stretch in multiple places. Population loss, of course, but also the loosening of parish boundary restrictions allow people to attend whatever parish they want.
I think many people who've moved out still support their former "home parishes" to keep them running. Although for the life of me I can't figure out why. My husband's old parish, St. Raymond's on the east side, still sends him & other former parishioners they can find, event notices & mulitple opportunities to financially support the church. For the past 17 yrs, even though I never went to church there, I've not missed a St. Raymond parish festival. My husband is insistent we go every year. I guess it's some kind of loyalty or maybe a familiarity in uncertain times.

[jackie5275]

Odd though that those who need the church most [[or the neighbourhoods that need them) seem to have the parishes closed while suburban churches are built new.

St. Christine's parish in the Brightmoor area closed several years ago. However, they still operate a big christian service outreach center that serves the Brightmoor community.

[Augustiner]

Although for the life of me I can't figure out why.

I think DetroitPole's post upthread might have something to do with it.

[jackie5275]

I've often wondered how some of these churches survive as long as they have with with so few people attending mass.
It's not like these churches have experienced a very slight dip in attendence and the AOD is quickly pulling the plug on them. Some of these churches have been struggling for a long time.

I wish I knew the answer to that other than saying church politics. I first started attending St. Thomas Aquinas in Warrendale in 1990. At that time, we had somewhere around 1900 families. We had 5 weekend masses, 2 on Sat & 3 on Sun. The departure of 2 popular priests and the removal of the City's residency requirement are the 2 main things I attribute to the parish membership's decline. We're now down to around 500 families, although only about 1/3 attend mass regularly. We've been clustered & declustered 3 times since 2004. I keep waiting for the shoe to drop, & we get the announcement we're going to close or merge with another parish. Although, we're once again a stand alone parish, & I doubt anything will happen to us.

[jackie5275]

I think DetroitPole's post upthread might have something to do with it.

People wanting to keep their parishes & attending church in an architeturally beautiful building?

[rjk]

People wanting to keep their parishes & attending church in an architeturally beautiful building?

Over the last five months I've been attending Sweetest Heart of Mary and occasionaly Saint Florian. When I see the stunning beauty of these churches I'm surprised more people don't make the short drive down I-75 to attend church. Comparing my suburban church to SHOM is like comparing a canvas painted white to a Picasso.

[michaeljoe]

No Pope has ever issued a statement to the effect that each parish has to pay itys own way [[in resposne to GOAt #12 on this thread). As a mater of fact, most parishes in the world located in the Third World or poor, rural areas are supported by Catholics from wealthier nations. Many of us older Catholics can recall saving money during Lent for "pagan babies." That was the Church's program for teaching children to join the ranks of the elders in helping to cover the expenses of poorer folks. Say what you will, you've got to give the devil his due. No organization on earth comes close to the Catholic Church in providing aid, support, services, help in all manner of ways to the poor.

[econ expat]

Catholic parishes have always been pressured to pay their own way,.perhaps it was not required, but implied by the pastors in their sermons.
New twist, not 'sanctioned' by the Pope- AOD recently changed the property deeds. Buildings now can belong to the parish, which will be a seperate entity from the AOD. The press releases from AOD were worded to reflect this as a positive move to benefit the parish, after all they can now OWN the buildings they paid for. Nice bonus for AOD also- the buildings are no longer property of AOD, subject to liens and siezures in legal settlements...

[swiburn]

I believe that one of the criteria in keeping a Catholic church in Detroit open is the number of people who actually use the envelopes, i.e. they aren't visitors. The Archdiocese may even factor in those parishioners who actually live in the neighborhood, i.e. not suburbanites who visit.
I recall that it is very strict-but I suppose that they need the priests in the suburbs. "Clustering" sounds like a brutal job for a priest-running from church to church on a Sunday just for nostalgia's sake.

[professorscott]

When parishes were set up in Detroit very short distances apart it was because the number of Catholic families justified the number of parishes. Three things have happened in the past fifty years to lead to the current situation.

1. The Catholic population has disbursed; there are fewer Catholics in Detroit and more out in the 'burbs, so there is not sufficient Catholic population in the City to justify all the parishes.

2. Catholics go to church less frequently than in the past, so even if there were as many Catholic families in the City you would still not need as many churches open.

3. There just aren't enough priests anymore, so even if there was a need for all those churches, you can't staff them.

By the way no Pope has ever made any rule about parishes being economically self-sufficient; however, Archbishops of Detroit have made these kinds of rules about their own churches and schools.

[sumas]

Not Catholic but did grow up in a heavily catholic Detroit neighborhood. Didn't charm me much when my catholic friends would tell me I was going to hell because I wasn't Catholic.

My husband, raised Catholic, was told by his parish priest, he was going to hell because he married me and I refused to convert. He refused to marry us. No worry, since I have a life long relationship within my church. UCC.

I stated before churches should not be profit centers.

My church has seen dwindling membership but hasn't deserted the neighborhood. Past member bequests keep us going and am proud to say we are still very involved in community outreach. Also get money from our greater UCC family. Am proud also to say we have a daily after school program for middle school children and a daily program for challenged young adults helping them to integrate into society as self sustaining.

That's what a church should be.

Tell the pope to sell a ring and put a kid through college.

Closing churches and schools because they are not financially viable but where there is great need doesn't sound too Christ like to me!

[Danny]

Not Catholic but did grow up in a heavily catholic Detroit neighborhood. Didn't charm me much when my catholic friends would tell me I was going to hell because I wasn't Catholic.

You can put yourself in hell if you don't repent your sins right away.

My husband, raised Catholic, was told by his parish priest, he was going to hell because he married me and I refused to convert. He refused to marry us. No worry, since I have a life long relationship within my church. UCC.

I have seen Christians married unbelivers and refused to covert. If a Christian marries an unbeliver. It's up to that Christian to convert. If the unbeliever partner don't want to covert that's its choice. You can go to heaven because you have made a choice to serve Jesus Christ the unbeliever goes to hell because it decided to live a false life and call it truth. So you're doing fine so far, if your a Christian.

I stated before churches should not be profit centers.

That's right, money changing in the Church is against the Law of God.

My church has seen dwindling membership but hasn't deserted the neighborhood. Past member bequests keep us going and am proud to say we are still very involved in community outreach. Also get money from our greater UCC family. Am proud also to say we have a daily after school program for middle school children and a daily program for challenged young adults helping them to integrate into society as self sustaining.

All churches should do that instead of locking themselves in the tabernacle waiting for a miracle. God will perform a miracle if the righteous have faith and perform his works.

That's what a church should be.

Tell the pope to sell a ring and put a kid through college.

Closing churches and schools because they are not financially viable but where there is great need doesn't sound too Christ like to me!

It's starts by go out to all the nations of Earth, Baptism them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, teach them the Gospel story of Jesus life and his miracles and He will be you with everyone even to the end of time.

[GOAT]

Professorscott, you may want to look into that again. The Bishop for the Diocese of London said that very thing to the Parish Council I am involved in.

[jackie5275]

Not Catholic but did grow up in a heavily catholic Detroit neighborhood. Didn't charm me much when my catholic friends would tell me I was going to hell because I wasn't Catholic.

My husband, raised Catholic, was told by his parish priest, he was going to hell because he married me and I refused to convert. He refused to marry us. No worry, since I have a life long relationship within my church. UCC.

Sounds like you grew up & got married before Vatican 2. That stuff doesn't go on in the Catholic Church today.

[FoxyScholar10]

I've wondered why people/churches avoid putting "Roman" in front of "Catholic" on signage/descriptions. Is the "Roman" implied?

I thought Christ The King church was in Detroit proper corner [[Grand River/Burt Rd.), down the street from the former Redford High School and DPL Redford Branch.

[jackie5275]

Closing churches and schools because they are not financially viable but where there is great need doesn't sound too Christ like to me!

Well, within the city limits of Detroit, how many churches are in areas where there is great need? For example, take the area of Sweetest Heart of Mary. How many Catholics, let alone, anybody else are living in that area? Not a whole lot regardless of what denomination they are. How about Holy Trinity in the Corktown area? Same thing. When churches close, that doesn't mean the service to the poor stops. Other parishes pick up the slack. St. Francis Cabrini, in Allen Park, assists a number of inner city parishes throughout the year. Areas in great need do get help, just not always from the church right down the street.

[SWMAP]

Don't forget the immense programs of Catholic Charities, the justice grants funded by the Catholic Campaign for Human Development, Mercy and st John Health Systems, the literacy programs at marygrove and in Sumas' own neighborhood, the Dominican Literacy Program. People so eager to criticize the Catholic Church when they nurse 30 year old misunderstanding. Praise sweet little small after-school programs but don't/won't see the sweeping continuing effects of the Catholic Church on our City - all funded by the Catholic people themselves in response to the mandate of their faith. Catholics do pretty much believe that good work is necessary for salvation, not Faith alone!

[SaintMe]

I've wondered why people/churches avoid putting "Roman" in front of "Catholic" on signage/descriptions. Is the "Roman" implied?

I think if the "Roman" isn't specified, it's safe to assume it's a church that follows the Rite of Roman [[or Latin) Catholicism, at least in the western world. The other Rites: Chaldean Catholics, Byzantine Catholics, Alexandrian Catholics, Syriac Catholics, Armenian Catholics, & Maronite Catholics, would most likely specify which Rite they identify with in the church's name because Roman Catholicism is so much more prevalent here.

[Pickford-Bentler]

I've wondered why people/churches avoid putting "Roman" in front of "Catholic" on signage/descriptions. Is the "Roman" implied?

I thought Christ The King church was in Detroit proper corner [[Grand River/Burt Rd.), down the street from the former Redford High School and DPL Redford Branch.

It is.

A paper named after the City of Detroit that is not cognizant of the boundaries of one its more famous neighborhoods is suspect.

What next?

Are they going to claim that Herman Gardens was the home of the famous actor - Errol Flynn?

[jackie5275]

I think if the "Roman" isn't specified, it's safe to assume it's a church that follows the Rite of Roman [[or Latin) Catholicism, at least in the western world. The other Rites: Chaldean Catholics, Byzantine Catholics, Alexandrian Catholics, Syriac Catholics, Armenian Catholics, & Maronite Catholics, would most likely specify which Rite they identify with in the church's name because Roman Catholicism is so much more prevalent here.

Don't forget the Coptic Catholics.

[SaintMe]

Don't forget the Coptic Catholics.

Coptics are in the Alexandrian Rite

[sumas]

Pretty much expected most responses on the board.

Still say churches should not be profit centers.

I am not up on Catholic reforms, I am not Catholic.

Bet I've been to more services than the avowed Catholics on the board. My husbands family is huge. Sometimes I think we are more in Catholic churches than our own. Weddings, funerals, baptisms, confirmations etc. Even attended classes on how to be a good God parent. Just didn't tell the priest that people can be God fearing but not even Christian.

My eldest son married out of our faith, ok with us, the other is agnostic. Ok too.

Churches should be about service to people and in that respect, service to God.

[sumas]

Oops, big oops, not condeming any religion or lack of. Respect any person with ethics. Sumas

[GOAT]

Sumas, since you made this about you. I will tell you that you are WRONG!
RC parishes are not profit centers. When factoring in the assistance to the poor, maintenance of these behemoth churches that are 1/4 full on a good mass; most parishes struggle to get by.

However I cannot refute the fly-by-night churches that seem to pop up on every corner in Detroit.

[sumas]

Sure Goat, it's all about me, just like you, you are all into yourself. Constant jeering and not even humorous snarky comments. With your attitude you wouldn't last 10 minutes in this city which you obviously have not been in in ages. Frankly, you wouldn't be welcome here. Detroiters have big hearts but need supporters with ideas and solutions not ass holes

I am here in the city, those corner churches you denigrate are heavy into youth outreach. I see these churches turn out the congregations to do street clean ups, mow vacant lots etc and send their youth to college. A neighbor lady had a house fire and they put her up and helped her raise the money to fix up her home since her insurance company fell short in their obligations. According to you those little congregations are piffle. Quit sneering and start doing.

The last time I saw/heard of RC doing anything here in the city was Coleman Young got a free ride at a catholic school. Thanks