Detroit won't grow until it's a choice that makes social, cultural, financial sense

[sehender1]

Don't normally do this, but I thought I'd post this here because people in this forum are generally interested in this theme.. My Sunday col is about why I stay in Detroit, but also why those reasons wouldn't be enough to attrack the kinds and numbers of people we'll need to rebuild..

http://www.freep.com/article/2010121...city-will-grow

[Russix]

All we need is a total revolution in everyday consciousness!

[canuck]

Absolutely right about the attitude to life in the city. I think that maybe Detroiters have not been asking a lot of their leaders to effect changes on all political levels. I am not talking handouts here but rather planning over the years to offset the losses in manufacturing and real estate.

There has to be more than personal and smaller cooperative movements to effect major change in the city. All these things matter most because they are about identifying with your community and promoting its wellness but the leverage Detroit needs is more extensive. China builds cities with a much higher speculative outlay than the US. Their national growth of GDP is much higher but they are fragile too in a lot of ways. I cant imagine a better showcase than Detroit's turnaround for the United States on an international level. The Clevelands and St-Louis' also need repairing and other inner cities but Detroit is potentially more destructive [[implosive) because of the donut syndrome affecting a large wealthy dynamic metro region. I am still hoping the Detroit Works Project will gather enough resources and enthusiasm to effect major change to attract newcomers and give a new sense of pride to residents.

[gazhekwe]

I read the article and thought it was right on. Lots to love about Detroit, but those negatives can really overpower you.

[Sparky]

Detroit has to become a place people enjoy, not just endure.

So true. But look at the reaction to me on the Corktown thread, it's the usual small, but vocal, group of Detroit cheerleaders/deniers who say, "If you don't like it, move to the suburbs!" As if that's ever going to solve anything. The fact is that almost everyone, if given the choice, would not choose to live in a place where they have to worry about :

- whether their car is going to be on the street or missing a catalytic converter when they wake up in the morning
- whether their house is going to be broken into while they're at work
- how they're going to afford to pay for private school tuition and ridiculous property taxes and discriminatory high insurance rates

There is also the real worry that, God forbid, they or their loved ones might be in the wrong place at the wrong time and become a victim of the obscene violence that permeates our City.

People who "stay here and fight" are not any better than those who choose to leave. I once thought the opposite. I gave my friends and neighbors crap for moving out, for not "supporting the city." But after living in one of the supposedly nicer neighborhoods of the city for so long, I can understand why they left.

It's still a place that says: Come live here, but lower your expectations.

[Lowell]

Sorry about your car Sehender1. Been there, done that and it miserable.

The walling off of the region's and state's problems in Detroit and other older city cores has to end. A state of emergency needs to be declared to redeploy security, educational and housing resources to these areas.

We cannot continue on as a hollow tree, all bushy and unconcerned on the top, crumbling, decaying and abandoned at the core. It is unfair that those who endure so much are further punished by higher insurance rates and taxes, inferior schools and public services and unsolved crimes. At a minimum a formula needs to be created to make the dollar cost of living is such areas less than anywhere else.

Like Russix says, "All we need is a total revolution in everyday consciousness!" It's not "their" problem; it is ours.

[Hermod]

The walling off of the region's and state's problems in Detroit and other older city cores has to end. A state of emergency needs to be declared to redeploy security, educational and housing resources to these areas.

1. Detroit had security till Coleman Young hamstrung the DPD.
2. Detroit has too many schools and too much resources tied up in a bloated education bureaucracy.
3. Detroit has too many houses sitting vacant.

Detroit doesn't need added resources, it needs subtracted liabilities.

[iheartthed]

You build a city on people who make a rational, logically defensible choice to be there.

So we can't begin to talk about bringing this city back without making fundamental changes to the kinds of decisions we're asking people to make when they live here.

For most people, it's about quality of life -- and the case for that in Detroit has to be made a lot stronger.

It has to be easy enough for a family to be able to add up the social pluses and minuses, and at least believe it's an even match. Easy enough for that same family to do the math and conclude that even with limited resources, life in the city makes more sense.

Yes, I know that cars get stolen in New York and Chicago and other urban [[and suburban) areas all the time.

I think you are pretty spot on here. And I think there are very few reasonable people who will disagree with you. But what exactly Detroit needs to do to get there is what we all tend to disagree about.

Detroit's assessment as a successful city will not come by comparing it to the suburbs; it will come from being compared to other urban centers. Detroit can't out-suburb the suburbs. Nor should the city's leadership even spend significant energy trying to emulate or compete with the suburbs. But what do other major urban centers in America offer that Detroit currently lacks? In short, a lot.

On the other hand, what Detroit lacks are things that it can fix. And Detroit's favorable characteristics happen to be things that will be hard or impossible for other cities to emulate. So once Detroit finally gets her act together she will be a great city.

Transit, in my opinion is Detroit's most pressing issue. I know that most people would disagree and say it's public safety. And that's fair but wrong IMO. Some of the safest cities in the world are backwaters. And some of the cities with the highest crime rates are World Class urban centers. But no World Class city exists without a very good transportation network.

[mwilbert]

Detroit had security till Coleman Young hamstrung the DPD.

Not really. I mean, there was a reason STRESS was created in the first place, and it wasn't because of the high degree of safety. I don't think CAY was a good mayor, or but he didn't inherit a safe city, nor did he invent crack.

[Zacha341]

And crime must be addressed in order to draw more people and business... as it stand now I want no parts of public transportation due to the crime quotient/ percentage which is so high in the city.

I think you are pretty spot on here. And I think there are very few reasonable people who will disagree with you. But what exactly Detroit needs to do to get there is what we all tend to disagree about.

Detroit's assessment as a successful city will not come by comparing it to the suburbs; it will come from being compared to other urban centers. Detroit can't out-suburb the suburbs. Nor should the city's leadership even spend significant energy trying to emulate or compete with the suburbs. But what do other major urban centers in America offer that Detroit currently lacks? In short, a lot.

On the other hand, what Detroit lacks are things that it can fix. And Detroit's favorable characteristics happen to be things that will be hard or impossible for other cities to emulate. So once Detroit finally gets her act together she will be a great city.

Transit, in my opinion is Detroit's most pressing issue. I know that most people would disagree and say it's public safety. And that's fair but wrong IMO. Some of the safest cities in the world are backwaters. And some of the cities with the highest crime rates are World Class urban centers. But no World Class city exists without a very good transportation network.

[iheartthed]

And crime must be addressed in order to draw more people and business... as it stand now I want no parts of public transportation due to the crime quotient/ percentage which is so high in the city.

Well, you wouldn't ride it but... You already live there[[?) so it's not about you? It's about all those people who completely skip over Detroit because it has been effectively removed from the grid.

[Hypestyles]

Detroit's assessment as a successful city will not come by comparing it to the suburbs; it will come from being compared to other urban centers. Detroit can't out-suburb the suburbs. Nor should the city's leadership even spend significant energy trying to emulate or compete with the suburbs. But what do other major urban centers in America offer that Detroit currently lacks? In short, a lot.

Transit, in my opinion is Detroit's most pressing issue. I know that most people would disagree and say it's public safety. And that's fair but wrong IMO. Some of the safest cities in the world are backwaters. And some of the cities with the highest crime rates are World Class urban centers. But no World Class city exists without a very good transportation network.

IhearttheD, if you're a woman, I want to marry you!

[canuck]

1. Detroit had security till Coleman Young hamstrung the DPD.
2. Detroit has too many schools and too much resources tied up in a bloated education bureaucracy.
3. Detroit has too many houses sitting vacant.

Detroit doesn't need added resources, it needs subtracted liabilities.

All that and some positiveness. It needs lightening up but it also needs added resources in spite or because of the added liabilities. It needs a number of transit nodes, commercial centers in 15 neighborhoods which will also serve as centers of congregation. People need to congregate, it seems like this was denied by design. These things are fun to accomplish. A new type of city will emerge which may serve as a model rather than an example to proscribe.

Imagine City Center and its Comerica Fest on various scales in all neighborhoods with an emphasis on participation and a deemphasis on disinvolvement. New Center and its park are amazing new expressions of what the city can be. In the days when Detroit had invested density, as opposed to disinvested density; there were huge parks to allow for expression and reception of good vibes. Now the city needs to redefine density in the present but also for a future time when it will regain the population that it lost. This long term plan would offer more opportunity for sustained quality architecture and urban design that other cities can only dream about. To dream about it, and to do it.

I think congregation on the scale you see at New Center Park is really cool, and I would see bandstands and open air venues in Mexicantown, Corktown etc... near transit poles. What needs to be achieved is business clusters around public transit nodes doubled with venues such as existing parks, attractions, theatres, campuses, etc... Detroiters need to congregate, and planning needs to be open to that new possibility. The density effected by pedestrian activity due to transitory migration at given points will increase citizen participation and bring about positive changes. Take note that density can be transitory, and still effect change. In other words, the city of Detroit as is, may be suffering from attrition on the whole of its territory but there are ways to increase transitory density in certain key points that will recreate interest, investment, and excitement to neighborhoods. Because neighborhoods need excitement, and renewal; the negation of that leads to self-destructive actions.

[Lowell]

1. Detroit had security till Coleman Young hamstrung the DPD.
2. Detroit has too many schools and too much resources tied up in a bloated education bureaucracy.
3. Detroit has too many houses sitting vacant.

Detroit doesn't need added resources, it needs subtracted liabilities.

I agree with 2, but not #1 and 3. When Coleman Young took office in 1974 crime, particularly homicide, was soaring and almost out of control. Gangs were rampant and gaining strength and police / community relations were abysmal. So let the ghost of CAY rest in peace. Witness this Time Magazine article for one example. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...878522,00.html.

Houses are sitting vacant for the reasons I cited and others. Levelize insurance and tax rates to the average metropolitan rates and increase law enforcement resources to the point that every crime is investigated and police response equals the metropolitan average and The City of Detroit will come back rapidly.

Right now the response of the state and other, of both parties, is, "It is your mess, you take care of it." Well these city's can't. They don't have the tax base and they are overwhelmed taking care of all the poor people who can't go anywhere else, provide no tax revenue but consume services while their middle classes flee. Incentives, great incentives, must be made, along with total restructuring, which is in progress.

[DetroitPole]

1. Detroit had security till Coleman Young hamstrung the DPD.
2. Detroit has too many schools and too much resources tied up in a bloated education bureaucracy.
3. Detroit has too many houses sitting vacant.

Detroit doesn't need added resources, it needs subtracted liabilities.

I doubt we would agree on much but I agree with the subtracted liabilities. Take a look here:

http://www.degc.org/major-employers.aspx

27,000 public employees between DPS and CoD??! What is this, the Soviet Union?
And what do they have to show for it? It seems like 2700 employees could do as good a job, since city services are piss poor and the schools are even worse.
I'm not a small government guy but I'm pretty sure a lot of those losers are racking up a lot of time sweeping mines. Right-sizing the government should go along with right-sizing the physical city - I think beforehand.

[mwilbert]

The US average in 2007 was 225 K-12 education employees per 10000 residents. If we say that Detroit has 850000 people, that would give 19125 K-12 employees in Detroit. The document you cite shows 13,750 DPS employees. Of course, if you believe as I do that the DPS is so ineffective that it should not exist, then that would be 13,750 too many, but the document you cite actually would seem to indicate under- rather than over-staffing. Of course, the staff that exists may be ineffective or badly-allocated, and certainly the administrative staff has grown radically over time, but you can't conclude overstaffing from the raw numbers.

[Novine]

Stephen Henderson has one of the biggest megaphones in Detroit. You can count on one hand the number of people who have the ability to reach as large an audience as he can. He needs to start using it to promote the city that Detroit must become and the steps it needs to take to reach that place. Have a vision for the city. Have solutions that are beyond the usual platitudes and rehashed ideas of solutions that haven't worked in the past. Present both big ideas and small that could turn Detroit around and hammer on the elected officials and community leaders at all levels, city, regional and state, to get on board with this vision and these ideas.

He's not going to succeed getting everyone to embrace that vision. But if he makes any progress with moving some of them forward, it will be far better than what passes for leadership in SE Michigan these days. I'm tired of reading the same old ideas from the same retreads on the editorial pages of the Detroit papers. We never hear anything new or inspiring. If Henderson doesn't want to be placed in the same category, he needs to start writing editorials that get people talking the next day, that drive public policy and ultimately result in moving ideas into action into results. Otherwise, he might feel good after writing this stuff but in five years, he'll have nothing to show for that effort.

[DetroitPole]

The US average in 2007 was 225 K-12 education employees per 10000 residents. If we say that Detroit has 850000 people, that would give 19125 K-12 employees in Detroit. The document you cite shows 13,750 DPS employees. Of course, if you believe as I do that the DPS is so ineffective that it should not exist, then that would be 13,750 too many, but the document you cite actually would seem to indicate under- rather than over-staffing. Of course, the staff that exists may be ineffective or badly-allocated, and certainly the administrative staff has grown radically over time, but you can't conclude overstaffing from the raw numbers.

That is interesting. Thanks. I think a similar good comparison would be the ratio of other major city's public employees [[excluding schools) to Detroit's.

[Zacha341]

I am sure there's waste, but a reduction of the DPS and COD workers down 90% per your figures [[LOL) and A. You'll have a complete collapse of those services and B. most importantly that will be the final coffin nail for a large segment mid and lower-middle class 'tax paying' working stiffs left......... Let's be careful what we hope for...........

I doubt we would agree on much but I agree with the subtracted liabilities. Take a look here:

http://www.degc.org/major-employers.aspx

27,000 public employees between DPS and CoD??! What is this, the Soviet Union?
And what do they have to show for it? It seems like 2700 employees could do as good a job, since city services are piss poor and the schools are even worse.
I'm not a small government guy but I'm pretty sure a lot of those losers are racking up a lot of time sweeping mines. Right-sizing the government should go along with right-sizing the physical city - I think beforehand.

[Fury13]

Good column, and one that could provoke some productive dialogue. I'm still encouraged [[and a little amazed) by those who still haven't completely given up on the city.

[PeachLaser]

My Sunday col is about why I stay in Detroit, but also why those reasons wouldn't be enough to attrack the kinds and numbers of people we'll need to rebuild.
[/URL]

Sehender, I think these questions and discussions are great.

I find an interesting comparison between the current state of Detroit and the plans in Saudia Arabia for creating new 'economic cities' in the middle of the desert. Detroit has the land and infrastructure to build similar cities of the future [[without the intolerances for women and religion).

Here is a link to a New York Times article from yesterday about these plans. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/13/ar...0cities&st=cse

Just think, the fuel that powers the cars of America [[with many built in Detroit) helped fund these cities of the future in Saudia Arabia.

In my opinion, as an interested observer, the people of Detroit need to forget the past and finger-pointing about what caused the demise and start looking at the future.

Here's another thought... as troops begin to return home, set up a huge half-way environment in the spaces available in Detroit. Coming home from war and then immediately returning home to a family is a huge challenge in many ways. Have it so that families can visit Detroit and the time necessary in the half-way environment dictated by the level of distress in each individual. Huge amounts of equipment also needs to be evaluated, repaired, etc. and needs large spaces and the tools to do that. Where that can be found? It might need cleaning up but there will be large amounts of manpower to do that with. Give the soldiers something to do as they re-adjust.

This would have many advantages for Detroit. There would be a huge influx of funds to make it happen and would require hiring many locals for jobs. I don't think there are enough spaces, resources and infrastructure anywhere else in the US to support something this large. I think 'the presence in itself' would help clean up many problems that frighten many residents and outsiders from wanting to risk living in Detroit.

I am one of those bothered by seeing us spend trillions of $ in other countries trying to solve problems when we have Detroit in the state she is now in. And, if we send our men and women into battle, we need to care for them when they return so that they can return to their families and lives in as healthy of a mental and emotional state that we can.

Detroit must plan for the future and innovate and think in new ways. Forget the past and invent the future!

My 2¢ worth.