Remnants of a streetcar system

[Vox]

It could have been worse, Mikef. You could have worked in a city where there were cable cars. George Hilton's "The Cable Car in America" points out that cable-driven street railways required a conduit about 3 feet deep of concrete poured around cast-iron frames every 3 or 4 feet. Hilton speculates on what it must be like for contractors to bid on a utility job in such a city, unaware that this nightmare is just below the pavement surface.

Grand Rapids had an extensive cable-car network, including the world's longest single cable run, but it only lasted one winter, after the cable froze up. I keep waiting to hear of traces of it turning up, but I never have seen any. Hilton wonders why Detroit never had cable cars [[as did Chicago, Washington, and New York) even though our straight, radial streets would have been ideal for this system. I presume Detroit just couldn't raise the capital during the cable-car heyday of the 1880's.

Why? Snow and ice, of course. Grand Rapids, or Detroit, are certainly no San Fran.

[bc_n_dtown]

Hilton wonders why Detroit never had cable cars [[as did Chicago, Washington, and New York) even though our straight, radial streets would have been ideal for this system. I presume Detroit just couldn't raise the capital during the cable-car heyday of the 1880's.

Actually, there was an attempt [[or a proposal) to build a cable-car line up Woodward Avenue. In 1891, the Detroit Street Railway Company sought a 30-year extension to their franchise so that they could electrify their lines. That franchise extension included the building of a Woodward cable-car line. Even though the Common Council approved it, Mayor Hazen Pingree felt that the franchise the company sought was illegal and the overall proposal did not benefit the citizens of Detroit, so he vetoed it. By the time electric power was installed later the next year the electric overhead trolley system was chosen city-wide.

[Hermod]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that cable car technology was quickly supplanted by electric power. The only places where cables remained is service were extremely steep places, such as San Francisco.

Being flat, Detroit didn't have the pressing need to convert horse car lines to cable. There was just a brief window before electric cars became the best choice and cable cars became obsolete. The capital cost and maintenance cost diiferentials of cable versus electric were significant.

[DetroitDad]

http://westenddumplings.blogspot.com...1_archive.html

Taken For a Ride is a 1996 documentary about the dismantling of North America's early mass transit systems. From 5 min to about 25 min deals mainly with streetcars and has some great footage of the old systems in action.

An interesting quote from one of the newsreel-style promo pieces from G.M. in the mid 1950's:

"Before the big change, all but 6 of the city's main arteries are handicapped by streetcar operations..."

Winnipeg, too, got rid of it's streetcar system in that same era and sold off the fleet for $100 a pop.

There's only one known to be left intact, 356 [[see below), though the odd decaying body can can be found in cottage country and farmer's fields such as 680 near Inwood [[at bottom).

[canuck]

Good job Ddad!

[citylover]

go thru this myth again?

[EastsideQT]

Check this website for everything you ever wanted to know about DSR-DDOT:
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/DSR-2-DOT/

[Al Publican]

Where did they end on streets like Mack and Harper? Is there a map of Detroit that shows the streetcar lines?

[DetroitDad]

Cross post to Photos of DSR Street Car Lines.

[Hermod]

Where did they end on streets like Mack and Harper? Is there a map of Detroit that shows the streetcar lines?

On the east side, the Harper line went as far as shoemaker where it turned south toward the St jean car house.

The Warren line went east to Barham.

Mack and Charlevoix lines terminated at Alter Road.

Kercheval line ended at St Jean.

Gratiot streetcar line ended at 7 Mile, though the interurban went all the way to Port Huron on that line. After the end of the interurban, the street car went to Mt Clemens for a few years.

Jefferson streetcar line ended at Wayburn, but the interurban went through the Grosse Pointes to Mt Clemens.

[MikeM]

Where did they end on streets like Mack and Harper? Is there a map of Detroit that shows the streetcar lines?

The Warren extention off of the Mack line [[on E Warren from Anderdon to Barham) was abandoned in 1946. The rest of the Mack line [[up Gratiot to Mack to Alter) was discontinued in 1947.

The Crosstown line, which ran on E Warren from St Jean to Cadillac to E Forest to 14th and westward, was discontinued in 1946.

The Charlevoix line, which ran on Charlevoix from Alter to McDougal, up to Mack and westward, was discontinued in 1949.

The Clairmount line, which started at E Jefferson and St Jean, ran up St Jean to Shoemaker to Montclair to Harper to Mt Elliot and westward, was discontinued in 1951.

The Fort-Kercheval line, which ran on Kercheval westward from Lycaste, was discontinued in 1949.

The Harper line, which ran from 8 Mile down Van Dyke to Harper to Mt Elliot to Forest to Hastings, was discontinued in 1947.

The Mt Elliot line, which zig-zagged on Chene, Mt Elliott, McDougal, and Van Dyke, ws discontinued in 1951.

The Baker line, which on the eastside ran on Nevada west from Van Dyke, to Mt Elliot, to Davison, to Jos Campau, to Chene, was discontinued in 1952.

The Jefferson line was discontinued in 1954.

That covers most of the eastern side of the system.