Remnants of a streetcar system

[citylover]

Not Detroit instead Los Angeles but interesting anyway saw this in the WSJ




http://www.secretstairs-la.com/welcome.html

[Hermod]

I am not sure how much you can still see in Detroit, but out in Oakland County, you can still find parts of the old interurban grading along Livernois, Orion Road, and the trestle embankment entering Rochester. There are probably other remains along the lines to Flint and Imlay City to include old substation buildings converted to other uses, bridge embankments, and old stations.

[econ expat]

And an old power plant in Farmington...
When they rebuilt Farmington Rd at Grand River, they found out that the street car tracks were still there, paved over long ago.

[Al Publican]

Are there any photos of the DSR turn around at Harper and Morang from the 1950s o or earlier? As a kid growing up in that area, I remember a so-called comfort station at Harper and Morang in NE Detroit where a street car line ended. Correct me if my memory is wrong on said location and setting.

[Wingnatic]

As a kid growing up in Ferndale [[probably mid 1950's-mid 1960's) I used to see rail tracks in the medium on Woodward in the area from around St.James Church to Marshall St . [[ where B'wana Don's was located ) most likely streetcar tracks .
The city most likely covered the tracks with dirt when the streetcars stopped .

[Magnatomicflux]

Not Detroit either, but what the hell, right? We've got some here in Windsor. Aside from some preserved in a crosswalk in Sandwich towne:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&sourc...209.76,,2,7.01

There are some on Elm Avenue:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&sourc...36.88,,1,-0.52

Attachment 8031

Which is right around the corner from the powerhouse and carbarns of the SW&A railway. which ran cars from Windsor, to Tecumseh and Amherstburg.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&sourc...335.53,,0,0.31

And I can't say for sure, but on Victoria turning east onto Park St.....there are two parallel curves in the center of the road, and the line did that here. I can't see rails yet, but I bet they poke their "heads" thru sooner or later.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&sourc...144.67,,1,15.5

And, if you head all the way out to Kingsville, you find the powerhouse of the WE&LS railway, SW&A's rival.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&sourc...23.61,,0,-0.52

The WE&LS ran cars from Windsor, up Howard and along Talbot road, where a ROW can still be seen in Maidstone. After passing thru Essex, it then turned south going thru Kingsville and on to Leamington. In their time, they were the longest street railways in Canada.
There could be more....I just don't know where.


I know there are some in Detroit around MCS, unless they've been torn up since the streetview car went by.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&sourc...337.67,,1,8.91

[MikeM]

Are there any photos of the DSR turn around at Harper and Morang from the 1950s o or earlier? As a kid growing up in that area, I remember a so-called comfort station at Harper and Morang in NE Detroit where a street car line ended. Correct me if my memory is wrong on said location and setting.

There's this photo of the Morang/Harper/Chester intersection from the Virtual Motor City. Looks like fresh construction; is this where the comfort station was?

http://tinyurl.com/2g8at6k

[Hermod]

There's this photo of the Morang/Harper/Chester intersection from the Virtual Motor City. Looks like fresh construction; is this where the comfort station was?

http://tinyurl.com/2g8at6k

I think that was buses only. I don't believe the Harper streetcar went that far east. In 1942, the Harper tracks turned south at Schoenherr.

[Detroitnerd]

Last time I checked, you could still see a bit of the Wayburn Loop, deflecting up from under the blacktop behind the intersection of Wayburn and Jefferson, IIRC.

There was also a bit sticking up in front of the Detroit Repertory Theatre on Woodrow Wilson.

[mikefmich]

I think that was buses only. I don't believe the Harper streetcar went that far east. In 1942, the Harper tracks turned south at Schoenherr.

They did go to the comfort station there. It's my one clear memory of the streetcar system. But that photo was not where the comfort station stood. It was fully on the westside of Harper.

[Hermod]

They did go to the comfort station there. It's my one clear memory of the streetcar system. But that photo was not where the comfort station stood. It was fully on the westside of Harper.

Mike, that sure must have been a long time ago because I have looked at both a 1941 and a 1942 map of the DSR streetcar system and they both show the Harper line ending at Schoenherr.

http://detroittransithistory.info/DS...rvice-1941.gif

Was it prior to 1941 that you remember?

[mikefmich]

Are there any photos of the DSR turn around at Harper and Morang from the 1950s o or earlier? As a kid growing up in that area, I remember a so-called comfort station at Harper and Morang in NE Detroit where a street car line ended. Correct me if my memory is wrong on said location and setting.

No your not. It was on the s.w. corner. My ma dragged me downtown on the streetcar from there the last week they ran.

[bc_n_dtown]

Those were correct who stated that the Harper streetcar, which stopped running in 1947, only went as far east along Harper as Van Dyke, where it turned north to 8 Mile Rd. The only other streetcar to operate along Harper was the Clairmount line, which turned off Harper at Montclair [[one block east of French Rd), then via Shoemaker and St. Jean to Jefferson.

As a matter of fact, the only mode of public transit to use Harper east of Montclair to the city limits, since 1925, were buses. In addition, the Harper/Morang area didn't even become a part of Detroit until 1925, by which time most of the city's streetcar grid had already been built. To provide service to this newly annexed area the DSR started a Harper bus line, a short feeder route to connect with the Clairmount line at Montclair. Very little new trackage was built by the DSR after 1925, especially on the far east-side.

Consequently, the Harper/Morang "comfort station" in question had to be used only by buses. Depending on what year we're referring to, the bus routes that traveled within that intersection during the 1950s were the Cadillac-Harper, Seven Mile East, Harper-Nine Mile and the Cadieux [[which was replaced by extending the McNichols East line in 1959).

[mikefmich]

bcn-downtown

Well that crashes a 50+ yr memory I guess.

Help me out, your knowledge of the streetcar lines seem pretty good. Had I gotten on a bus at the Harper-Morang comfort station in either '55 or '56, where could I have gone on that bus to connect with the closest streetcar heading downtown?

[Hermod]

bcn-downtown

Well that crashes a 50+ yr memory I guess.

Help me out, your knowledge of the streetcar lines seem pretty good. Had I gotten on a bus at the Harper-Morang comfort station in either '55 or '56, where could I have gone on that bus to connect with the closest streetcar heading downtown?

Gratiot and Harper for the Gratiot line.

[bc_n_dtown]

bcn-downtown

Well that crashes a 50+ yr memory I guess.

Help me out, your knowledge of the streetcar lines seem pretty good. Had I gotten on a bus at the Harper-Morang comfort station in either '55 or '56, where could I have gone on that bus to connect with the closest streetcar heading downtown?

mikefmich,
Hermod was correct, the shortest route would have been taking the Cadillac-Harper bus, which would have dropped you off at the Harper/Cadillac/Gratiot intersection to hop on the Gratiot car into downtown.

I do remember reading in one of your previous posts where your mom took you to ride the streetcar during its last week, in which case that would have been on the Woodward line [[April 1956). There were two options; one would have been the Seven Mile East bus, via Morang and E. Seven Mile to Woodward, then hopping on the Woodward car heading downtown. The second would have been taking the Cadillac-Harper all the way downtown to Woodward, and then hopping onboard the Woodward car out-of-town.

Also, it looks like the Ford Expressway coming through that intersection around 1958 changed the entire landscape. Maybe one of those old aerial photos from pre-1956 might help here.

[Hermod]

mikefmich,
Hermod was correct, the shortest route would have been taking the Cadillac-Harper bus, which would have dropped you off at the Harper/Cadillac/Gratiot intersection to hop on the Gratiot car into downtown.

I do remember reading in one of your previous posts where your mom took you to ride the streetcar during its last week, in which case that would have been on the Woodward line [[April 1956). There were two options; one would have been the Seven Mile East bus, via Morang and E. Seven Mile to Woodward, then hopping on the Woodward car heading downtown. The second would have been taking the Cadillac-Harper all the way downtown to Woodward, and then hopping onboard the Woodward car out-of-town.

Last run on Gratiot was March 25, 1956.
Last run on Woodward was April 8, 1956

I guess she might have chosen either for the "last ride".

Last run on Michigan Ave was September 7, 1955.

[Mikeg]

Also, it looks like the Ford Expressway coming through that intersection around 1958 changed the entire landscape. Maybe one of those old aerial photos from pre-1956 might help here.

Here's an aerial of the Harper-Morang intersection that was taken on April 13, 1956 [source]:

Attachment 8085

Compare to a recent aerial:

Attachment 8086

[LeannaM]

It's pretty neat to find old signs of street cars and transit.

In St. Louis a few years ago a construction crane tore up part of the road. Underneath the pavement were bricks and street car tracks.

There's somewhere in St. Louis that still has street car signs as well. There's a few pictures of it here: http://urbanstl.com/forum-bridge/ind...rb_v=viewtopic

[mikefmich]

mikefmich,
Hermod was correct, the shortest route would have been taking the Cadillac-Harper bus, which would have dropped you off at the Harper/Cadillac/Gratiot intersection to hop on the Gratiot car into downtown.

I do remember reading in one of your previous posts where your mom took you to ride the streetcar during its last week, in which case that would have been on the Woodward line [[April 1956). There were two options; one would have been the Seven Mile East bus, via Morang and E. Seven Mile to Woodward, then hopping on the Woodward car heading downtown. The second would have been taking the Cadillac-Harper all the way downtown to Woodward, and then hopping onboard the Woodward car out-of-town.

Also, it looks like the Ford Expressway coming through that intersection around 1958 changed the entire landscape. Maybe one of those old aerial photos from pre-1956 might help here.

Right...and before this thread I would've sworn it was the last week or very close to it. I do have clear memory of boarding a streetcar...obviously where exactly that was versus where I thought it was is different. I can't imagine ma going all the way to Woodward to get downtown. Perhaps it was a year earlier, because she knew the streetcars were going to be extinct in the near future.

Partly why I remember is it was the only time I was on a streetcar in my memory. Usually we took the Warren bus downtown from Warren & Canyon.

[blackmath]

This isn't about streetcars, but here's an old instructional film made in 1937 or 38 a friend of mine uploaded onto youtube a while back. It was meant as a training "video" of sorts for new Detroit bus drivers. The narration is amazingly dated and hilarious. There's 6 parts to it, just check the sidebar Great shots of the city in there as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzvSgCm5WOM - part 1 of 6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaSLR...eature=related - 2 0f 6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77bfR...eature=related - 3 of 6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdKuA...eature=related - 4 0f 6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQyHJ...eature=related - 5 of 6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd_RT...eature=related - 6 of 6

[blackmath]

Here's another film he uploaded called "Getting About" made in 1935. Great streetcar scenes in this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYTH3...eature=related

Just check the sidebar for the following parts.

btw - a much more serious tone to this one. Its pretty informative.

[Hermod]

In the forties and fifties, the larger buses for Detroit were made by Mack and Twin Coach. The smaller buses were made by Ford. At the time, there was no intermediate [[jr high) school in the far NE and 7th and 8th graders from the Wayne, Clark, and Arthur Elementary School districts were bussed down to Jackson Intermediate using DSR charter buses. My bus stop was at Nottingham and Berkshire and usually we got a Mack or a Twin Coach and there were seats for most, but not all, kids [[students in grade 7B were required to stand while their "betters" got the seats.. Some days when there was a glitch in the system with a bus unavailable, we would get a Ford and the aisle was just jam packed with standees.

[douglasm]

Wingnatic......
.....you could see the same tracks north of 9 Mile, where Camborne and Woodland crossed Woodward.

It's common knoledge that the Woodward streetcar line turned around at the Fairgrounds. Do they still do that with the busses and is the DSR Lunch still there?

[Augustiner]

Wingnatic......
.....you could see the same tracks north of 9 Mile, where Camborne and Woodland crossed Woodward.

It's common knoledge that the Woodward streetcar line turned around at the Fairgrounds. Do they still do that with the busses and is the DSR Lunch still there?

The Woodward buses still turn around in a loop off Woodward surrounded by the Fairgrounds property, along with a few other routes. I catch buses there all the time and I've never heard of the "DSR Lunch," so I'm gonna assume it's not there anymore.