Pelosi lies about opposition to "torture"

[Big Dog]

This just in on yahoo news. Pelosi didn't lie. She was misled by the Bush administration.

[mjs]

Her lie is minute compared to the Bush lies.

I'll say it again, "her lie is peanuts. . ."

This just in on yahoo news. Pelosi didn't lie.

They absolutely unequivocally did not tell me about the torture.- Old Pelosi Paraphrase

This just in, they did tell me in specific detail about how they believed it was in their power to do it and how they would do everything in their power to stop terrorism. However, I am a politician and I'm not used to working with people that say what they mean. Besides, I thought it would only cause trouble if I threatened that if they did do it, I'd enforce our treaties and laws. As everyone knows, I never liked to challenge statements from the Bush Administration.- New Pelosi Paraphrase

Do you work for Pelosi's PR team? Watch Mikeg's link to the Daily Show.

[mjs]

Man, having this contoversy in the news right now might take the spotlight off of Obama's push to bring meaningful reform to the credit card companies. I know that's the last thing the bankers wanted to see when they gave Pelosi that half a million dollars. http://www.opensecrets.org/politicia...wMem=N&recs=20

[mjs]

“No letter could change the policy. It was clear we had to change the leadership in Congress and in the White House. That was my job — the Congress part,� Pelosi said. http://www.freep.com/article/20090514/NEWS15/90514076

I can't more emphatically disagree. I fail to see how a letter from the House Intelligence Committee threatening to treat the methods as crimes wouldn't have been every bit as effective as when the President did it. Furthermore, not only can Congress write letters, they can actually write things called laws. She could have even written a law that clarified these specific methods were torture without revealing anything she was told in the meetings. It would have removed every bit of ambiguity as to whether the methods were torture and what would happen to people that used or conspired to use these methods. That would have meant that it would have been easier to jail those that lie to her about using the methods and that the White House memos would have been made useless.

One could even argue the Constitution says her job as a Congress woman is to pass laws rather than getting Democrats elected at all costs. Her job as a member of the House Intelligence Committee was to act as a check on the President's use of the intelligence community. That's its only purpose! Not to have them "notify" her to satisfy her curiosity. Saddam had already claimed the job of bringing a party to power through the approval of torture.

[Big Dog]

Mikeg, Your side lost. How does feel to know you've got at least another 7 and 1/2 more years or better to go. Stop the microbitching and get over it.

[jiminnm]

Mikeg, Your side lost. How does feel to know you've got at least another 7 and 1/2 more years or better to go. Stop the microbitching and get over it.

You're right. It's now the Dems' turn to equivocate and lie.

[Lorax]

Pelosi didn't lie. Period.

This is just another witch hunt by the Repugnican Reich.

They lost, and are about to see heavy duty indictments against Cheney, [[hopefully his hateful daughter as well), Gonzales, and the Torture Attorneys.

They though they had an easy target in Pelosi- they have another thing coming.

[Mikeg]

Today at 08:37 AM Big Dog wrote: I'll say it again, "her lie is peanuts, compared to the lies of the Bush administrations". You lost the election and are microbitching now.

Today @ 07:41 PM, Big Dog wrote: Mikeg, Your side lost. How does feel to know you've got at least another 7 and 1/2 more years or better to go. Stop the microbitching and get over it.

Your ought to get some professional help for your stuttering problem.

At least you admitted that she lied. However, the real issue here is Pelosi's ability to effectively lead the House Democrats going forward and whether she can get results. I'll say it again, it's obvious that you are either unwilling or unable to offer any defense of Speaker Pelosi's leadership.

Your side lost in the previous elections and that didn't stop your side from incessantly bitching about the issues of the day and making disrespectful remarks about the President. I have stated my case without getting emotional or telling anyone to shut up. So what makes you think that I shouldn't have the right to respectfully criticize a national elected leader?

[ccbatson]

This one is blowing up in their faces, and the implications are bigger than just Pelosi....congress...ALL OF CONGRESS had this information. Those that went on to behave, or flat out say things that gave the opposite impression were lying, and are now covering it up...all for political purposes. Meaning? They agreed with the techniques [[by not objecting), and then point a finger at their political opponents for doing the right thing [[as they had done, but believed nobody would find out). Watergate was nothing next to this.

[mjs]

Pelosi didn't lie. Period.

This is just another witch hunt by the Republican Reich.

They lost, and are about to see heavy duty indictments against Cheney, [[hopefully his hateful daughter as well), Gonzales, and the Torture Attorneys.

They though they had an easy target in Pelosi- they have another thing coming.

You need to understand that both sides understand that she's never going to lose her seat and Cheney will never be indicted because they'd go down together. She's won 11 elections by 75% or more and outspends her opponents by over 4 to 1. Republicans know that the only way to remove Pelosi is in cuffs and that won't happen without Bush folks in cuffs and Dems know that a damaged Speaker of the House will lose more seats than a further damaged ex-President will gain. Hell, none of them are even going to have the moral fortitude to get a bill to the floor that could prevent a recurrence. Why do you think the Bush Administration even told Pelosi? Mutually assured destruction.

[ccbatson]

I wouldn't be so sure about the security of her seat. It is very possible that Obama will throw her under the bus.

[Lorax]

You need to understand that both sides understand that she's never going to lose her seat and Cheney will never be indicted because they'd go down together. She's won 11 elections by 75% or more and outspends her opponents by over 4 to 1. Republicans know that the only way to remove Pelosi is in cuffs and that won't happen without Bush folks in cuffs and Dems know that a damaged Speaker of the House will lose more seats than a further damaged ex-President will gain. Hell, none of them are even going to have the moral fortitude to get a bill to the floor that could prevent a recurrence. Why do you think the Bush Administration even told Pelosi? Mutually assured destruction.

I understand your premise, and originally though as much, too, however, as of now, I believe her when she says she was not made aware of whether or not the techniques were actually being used, only proposed. Bob Graham, former Florida senator has agreed with her, and backed her up publicly, since he was in on these meetings.

Remember, at the time, Pelosi was a ranking member of the Intelligence Committee, though was not made privy to the NSA briefs on the subject, which the White House controlled. Furthermore, she was sworn to secrecy on the content of what she was privy to, and had a fiduciary responsibility to not share this information.

Jane Harmon stepped in to write a brief for the committee stating their objection to any use of such techniques, which legally indemnified the group.

Should she have recused herself, in hindsight, certainly, she should have.

None of this should obscure the fact that crimes were committed by the Bush Administration, and any attempts to co-opt democrats is ridiculous, the republicans were in charge, and had a republican controlled congress, and highly partisan justice department, the blame is finally theirs.

[Lorax]

Isn't it time for her to hang up her broom and call it a a done deal? I mean the criminality of our representitives is so in your face and blatant .
They break the law every day and smile in our faces as if they are above it.

I would agree if it was true. However, your wrong about this. I guess you championed the removal of the Bush Crime Family as well when they were out there destroying the country?

[rb336]

I suppose you were right there along with good Ol'Nan when she was being briefed eh?.

She has asked them to release the transcripts of her briefings

And no, I was not championing the removel of the Bush CrimeFamily because there is no such thing .
Maybe you should thank him for being safe all these years instead of your ilk constantly trying to tear down the very people that keep you and yours safe .

you mean those people who ignored a May 2001 briefing book called "Target: America" outlining various Al Qeada threats, who later said "who could have imagined someone using a jet as a weapon" [[Condi) even though that was outlined in the briefing, and the cover had a drawing of the towers with a jet heading towards them?

how, exactly, did they keep us safe?

oh, yeah -- the info they got from an al qeada leader during torture that allegedly stopped a terrorist attack in LA. oops -- that thwarted attack was in 2002, the guy the bushies claim to have tortured the info out of -- captured in 2003

[mjs]

Lorax, I agree that none of this should obscure what Bush has done and that it may not have been implemented if a Democrat were in office- Almost certainly not if that Democrat were Obama. However, the Dems are now in charge. What are they waiting on before they amended the law on torture to specifically include the tactics used? I'm mostly con viced they won't ever be authorized by Obama, not at all convinced that an agent that uses them anyway would face charges, and absolutely baffled as to why they'd leave the question of their use open to future administrations. Its not like its the first time we've mistreated folks in time of war- Japanese detention camps.

The CIA honorably did their job when they asked two branches of government if the methods could be used. One said do it or quit, then said if you do it, you might as well quit. The other is still leaving them out to dry. The Dems in Congress owe the CIA an answer better than not today, maybe tomorrow, but don't count on us protecting you if you're ordered to do it.

[mjs]

Maybe you should thank him for being safe all these years instead of your ilk constantly trying to tear down the very people that keep you and yours safe and able to constantly talk trash about those that keep you in that trash talking mode.

Say, I ride public buses for years and never fear and then one bus driver runs a bus into a gas station and kills most everyone on board. If that bus driver blames it on yelling kids, a problem every bus driver faces, and then fixes those kids and others like them by gagging, handcuffing, and chaining them to the floor, did his tactics make him a life saver or did his terrible bus driving skills make him a killer? Wow, since 9/11, Bush has managed to keep us as safe from terrorism as every single one of his predecessors. Well, I mean except for those killed in the 9/11 attack when those that work for him dropped the ball and those killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Bush did not start an Iraq war but he did finish it thank you.

I'm so relieved that our troops are back home now that Bush finished the war in Iraq. What! They're still there and still dying? But, I've heard the the war is finished!

If you are referring to torture, well that does not apply either because these monsters were cannot even be deemed enemy combatants because they represent no sovereign nation at all so the Geneva Convention is out of the window on that one.

For crying out loud, no matter how many times you refute it, I'll say it again, the Geneva Convention itself says that every foreign citizen is covered in one category or another. And once again, torture is also a crime under US statutes. That is why Cheney wants you to say its not torture. Come on, follow the company line.

[Flanders]

Thats another reason why the Obama administration wants to let the public know about the torture but doesn't want to focus on it especially now. He knows that Dems were involved in at least being aware of it and not doing anything The political blowback would not help getting his agenda passed.

How much traction would the Dem minority in Congress gained in the US, had they attempted to blow the whistle on the Bush administration and try to put a stop to the "advanced interrogation techniques" being used by the US military on captured detainees, with the events of 9/11 still so fresh in everyone's psyche, and the invasion of Afghanistan just begun and the invasion of Iraq yet to begin?

They would have been of course accused of being unpatriotic and sympathetic to the "enemy" but to a far greater degree than they still are to this day. With 1.2 billion Muslims on the planet, the fanatic terrorist elements of the Islamic faith have an unlimited pool of human resources to recruit from. Unless the US were to begin a systematic and vastly ramped up genocide of Muslims, as was done to native North, Central, and South Americans for 500 years, there is absolutely no chance of "victory" in the war on terrorism...ever.

Conservatives proclaim that the war on terror is defending our freedoms, but there is another and far more formidable and ominous enemy that is a much bigger threat to our freedoms, communist China, whose own "freedoms" are indirectly being defended and who has greatly benefited as well by the blood being shed by our troops and from the vast sums of money being borrowed from them and spent to support and finance it, and their troops have not even suffered a paper cut as a result, nor have they assisted in providing any military support, in the Middle East, while importing oil from Iran, who is their largest supplier, while the US biggest supplier of oil is Canada.

[Bobl]

I am not a supporter of Ms Pelosi, and wish she would just go away, for many reasons. What baffles me is why the same people who criticize her for "not doing anything" about the use of torture [[ or "enhanced interrogation techniques") are the same, in many cases, who supported and still support the administration of chickenhawks who were responsible for it. Kind of a straw man debate. If Ms Pelosi is to be condemned when she could do nothing other than speak out, why no condemnation of those who could have stopped it, or never let it happen?

[Big Dog]

Flanders, You are 100% right in your above post. She could not have even brought it up. It may have affected the November election severly. Why is she being made a scapegoat instead of the ones who ordered it and carried it out.

[Bigb23]

Let's see, she was presented a synopsis, by the administration at the time, which we now know was minimized by 100 times, and the Republicans still do not want a review ? You can't have it both ways. Either a full review, and all aspects, or drop it now, and start over.

And please Dick Cheney, you are allowed more than ever now, on you're take on the failing of the Obama administration, of all times.

W.

[1KielsonDrive]

#1. Let's have a complete and independent investigation of the torture, it's instigators and they're 'legal' justifications. As that's happening we can find out who knew what. If Pelosi and others are caught up in it, so be it. But let's not put the cart before the horse. INVESTIGATE TORTURE NOW!

[ccbatson]

Libs...slow down a bit in your knee jerk rush to defend this dirty political manoeuvring on the part of Pelosi. In short order, you will see the Democrats lining up against her as they are currently keeping mum on the subject. Remember also that "congress" was briefed so lots of liberals are knee deep in this mess along with her.

The current CIA director [[a Clintonite) shot her down today.

[1KielsonDrive]

The problem with my previous statement is this: An investigation of torture will end up just like the 9/11 Commission Investigation - co-opted and sold out. Zelikow was put on board the 9/11 Commisssion as Director to undermine the investigation and make sure no 'blame' was assigned - just find out what happened, not who screwed up. I'm going to rob a bank tommorrow. I'm hoping for a trial that'll investigate a robbery and not assign blame. I'll then go off quietly in the evening with my ill gotten gains.

[ccbatson]

The issue of torture is not the focus here...Pelosi [[as an example of liberal corruption) is.

[1KielsonDrive]

Well CC, you're still alive. I think we may have common ground [[oohhh, noooooooo!). The dems ARE up to their knees in it. Regardless, this is a ploy by right wing-nut jobs to deflect attention from the fact they created, instigated and rationalized torture. Now the demicans have to own up to the fact that they looked the other way. Much like they did in the build up to war in Iraq. It's called ENABLING. You know - drunk wife goes out and totals the car. Husband saw her leaving with the keys, knew she was drunk, and ignored her departure. Now, demicans will snipe and point fingers at each other. Republicrats won't do that, they'll just stand up, lie, and point fingers at everyone else, much like they've been doing for decades.