High Speed Rail

[ghettopalmetto]

While Chinese authorities are questioning whether they built too much high-speed rail too quickly, high-speed rail promoters in this country continue to hold the Chinese up as a shining example and denigrate their own country for not blindly following suit.

Therefore, we should just sit on our asses and pray for American Exceptionalism to see us through.

No one is proposing to build high-speed trains willy-nilly. But just because the Chinese are "reviewing" what they've done doesn't mean that we don't have a Third World transportation infrastructure. God forbid we invest money in our own economic well-being.

The former Soviet bloc nations would be embarrassed of our rail system.

[Hermod]

Therefore, we should just sit on our asses and pray for American Exceptionalism to see us through.

No one is proposing to build high-speed trains willy-nilly. But just because the Chinese are "reviewing" what they've done doesn't mean that we don't have a Third World transportation infrastructure. God forbid we invest money in our own economic well-being.

The former Soviet bloc nations would be embarrassed of our rail system.

Uhh, GP, we have the most efficient, extensive, and profitable freight railroad network in the world and the railroads are currently upgrading the trunk lines using mostly their own money.

[Augustiner]

Uhh, GP, we have the most efficient, extensive, and profitable freight railroad network in the world and the railroads are currently upgrading the trunk lines using mostly their own money.

So?extra characters

[dtowncitylover]

Uhh, GP, we have the most efficient, extensive, and profitable freight railroad network in the world and the railroads are currently upgrading the trunk lines using mostly their own money.

WOW! Freight rail! Yeah, let me "ride the rails!" It's nice that a freight train can get to New York from Detroit without having to go to Chicago first...how about us?

It's nice that we didn't think twice to fund the post-War infrastructure projects in Western Europe, but it's taken 60 years and counting for us to upgrade ours.

[ghettopalmetto]

Uhh, GP, we have the most efficient, extensive, and profitable freight railroad network in the world and the railroads are currently upgrading the trunk lines using mostly their own money.

I'm sure folks parked on the Interstate or crammed into a flying aluminum can will appreciate that little trivia item.

In the meantime, we'll just shell out trillions more dollars for ever-wider interstates and ever-larger airports while the Europeans and Asians conduct business.

[stasu1213]

I heard on the way into work this morning that our <Sarcasm On> Hard Working, Dedicated <Sarcasm Off> State Legislatures failed to pass the matching funds for the $180 Million fed loans that was supposed to be used for the rail line between here and Chicago. Does anyone have more info about this and if it is still salvageable by the newly-elected, incoming legislatures?

According to the report, Mike Bishop was working hard to get it passed but for whatever reason it never made it to the floor for a vote.

I had said over and over again that it will not happen in Michigan for quite awhile as long as the oil, rubber, and automotive companies have their political leader in their back pockets. Let see what you guys will say when Detroit doesn't follow through with the light rail up Woodward in the next two years.

[ghettopalmetto]

I had said over and over again that it will not happen in Michigan for quite awhile as long as the oil, rubber, and automotive companies have their political leader in their back pockets. Let see what you guys will say when Detroit doesn't follow through with the light rail up Woodward in the next two years.

Wrong thread.

[stasu1213]

Wrong thread.

Right thread for I am commenting on the High Speed rail that never will happen

[ghettopalmetto]

Right thread for I am commenting on the High Speed rail that never will happen

I know that sometimes it's difficult to pay attention to the world around you, but the process of upgrading to high speed rail in Michigan has been occurring for the past ten years. Please do try to keep up.

[stasu1213]

I know that sometimes it's difficult to pay attention to the world around you, but the process of upgrading to high speed rail in Michigan has been occurring for the past ten years. Please do try to keep up.

It takes ten years? How many more years will it take to put plans into action? I say this; find out what corporation is funding the campaign of these political candidates who runs for office. That is who that candidate will look after when he/she gets in office. Even if the Rubber, oil, and automotive companies tell that politician to vote against the high speed rail bill or don't match the funds.

[Hermod]

So?extra characters

Because that is what keeps the economy moving.

Business travel is declining due to the internet and teleconferencing.

Getting Aunt Minnie from Scranton to Grand Rapids for a visit does not a real impact on the economy.

[ghettopalmetto]

It takes ten years? How many more years will it take to put plans into action? I say this; find out what corporation is funding the campaign of these political candidates who runs for office. That is who that candidate will look after when he/she gets in office. Even if the Rubber, oil, and automotive companies tell that politician to vote against the high speed rail bill or don't match the funds.

Well, it took France about 50 years to get its TGV network where it is today--and they never had wholesale abandonment of their passenger rail system like we did.

It took the United States a good 40 years to complete the Interstate Highway System.

Sorry to disappoint. Not everything is cheap, quick, and easy.

[Augustiner]

Because that is what keeps the economy moving.

Business travel is declining due to the internet and teleconferencing.

Getting Aunt Minnie from Scranton to Grand Rapids for a visit does not a real impact on the economy.

Do you think there's any intrinsic value in making this country a nice place to live, or should we only ever invest in making it easier for businesses to make more money?

[Hermod]

Do you think there's any intrinsic value in making this country a nice place to live, or should we only ever invest in making it easier for businesses to make more money?

Have you ever read any history?

The railroads invested a lot of money into their passenger networks post WWII. Virtually every solvent railroad re-equipped with the newest and most modern stainless steel passenger cars. This investment was for the most part totally wasted as business travelers abandoned the rails for the airlines.

Leisure travelers are in no way profitable nor do they have an impact "off the books". While you can make a case that an urban mass transit system which is losing money creates gains elsewhere in the civilian economy and "pays the region back", you cannot make that g=case for the intercity passenger.

If the argument is that we need to provide enjoyment, how about subsidizing the restart of the D&C boats from Buffalo to Cleveland to Detroit to Chicago? How about the Soo Line passenger train from Sault Sainte Marie to Minneapolis-St Paul? Lets fund a new theme park at boblo and get the Boblo boats going again. Oh yes, the Tashmoo could be restarted. All those things would make it a nice place to live.

A thriving economy is what makes a place nice to live. How "nice to live" has it been in SE Michigan since the auto industry fell into the crapper?

[Gannon]

Your "poignant point" is neither an indictment nor an obvious proof of anything.

While Chinese authorities are questioning whether they built too much high-speed rail too quickly, high-speed rail promoters in this country continue to hold the Chinese up as a shining example and denigrate their own country for not blindly following suit.

Hey KID! Get off my grass-is-always-greener!


LOL, thanks for the greater perspective.

I was repeating THEIR observation, and continue to consider it a strong indictment of what will hold this country back from ever achieving true greatness and/or leadership around the world again.


Cheers

[ghettopalmetto]

A thriving economy is what makes a place nice to live. How "nice to live" has it been in SE Michigan since the auto industry fell into the crapper?

So whether or not passenger rail service is profitable doesn't mean it doesn't have a positive economic impact. Hell, look at the airlines which, despite billions of dollars in public subsidies, are losing their shirts. Does that mean we should do away with air travel? Or roads, for that matter, which have never turned a profit since Roman times?

I hardly think the remainder of the world which, mind you, is far poorer than the United States, is constructed high speed rail out of whimsy. It's no mistake that the first line Poland upgraded since their accession to the EU was the route between Berlin and Warszawa. Wouldn't it make equal sense to have the same kind of convenient, affordable, and fast connection from Detroit to a place like Chicago???

[muskie1]

I like the idea of high speed rail. The idea of of Detroit to Chicago just seems like too limited of a corridor, it would be nice to have a line heading east, maybe Philly, Boston, New York. I know it is a much further distance but it just seems like you would have a much greater concentration of users.

[Novine]

Great detailed article on Amtrak in Michigan even if it comes from a source I wouldn't expect to be generating something so coherent.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/de...amtr-d08.shtml

[ghettopalmetto]

I like the idea of high speed rail. The idea of of Detroit to Chicago just seems like too limited of a corridor, it would be nice to have a line heading east, maybe Philly, Boston, New York. I know it is a much further distance but it just seems like you would have a much greater concentration of users.

Well, you can thank Ohio Governor-elect John Kasich for fucking that up for ya.

[canuck]

We tend to forget that apart from great rail service in Europe, the air travel offer is not in any way deficient because of it. The density in Europe made it just about perfect for the mix of travel choices available. I think we will see high speed rail happen, probably not very high speed like they are building in China, but we will get options open. That by the way means competition. I also agree with you GP on the Airlines subsidies bit. I wonder if there are any major Airlines out there making any kind of profit. Europe's largest airlines are also heavily subsidized and leveraged in a big way, when not wholly state owned such as Air France.

I would think that for economic security alone, highspeed rail is an important new tool to develop. At a time when fuel availability is uncertain, and specific regions of the US are affected by economic decline in specific industries, this should be enough of an incentive to move forward. The other choices will be there, but trains that run on time and can get you from city centers in an hour more than the plane takes, say Detroit to Chicago or Montreal to Toronto
are worthwhile. If you consider the travel times from airport to downtown etc...

[ghettopalmetto]

Europe's largest airlines are also heavily subsidized and leveraged in a big way, when not wholly state owned such as Air France.

It's also worth noting that European airlines aren't forced to operate money-losing short-haul routes that U.S. carriers do [[such as Detroit-Cleveland). That translates into direct savings to the taxpayer, as they don't require regular multi-billion dollar public investments into land-hungry airport expansions on the level seen in the United States.

Where we do have halfway decent rail service--in between DC and New York--Amtrak carries nearly twice as many passengers as all airlines combined.

[canuck]

Where we do have halfway decent rail service--in between DC and New York--Amtrak carries nearly twice as many passengers as all airlines combined.

Yes, and while urban proximity helps deliver the goods more easily in that corridor, I cant imagine
high speed rail between more remote centers not being used. I once took a train ride to New York from Montreal on an overnighter that took 10 hours and of course stopped in Albany and New Haven etc... Faster trains would definitely attract a vast number of foreign tourists, not just business commuters or North American travelers.

On another note, Homeland security wise, another day like 9/11 would mean the airlines again having to ground all planes. Trains offer an alternative to long distance travelers and personally, I would rather travel on a high-speed train than a megabus on an icy road at 80mph...

[Rocko]

I'd like to point out how well researched and written that WSWS article is. I'm surprised, really surprised. Everything is very accurate in that article.

The fact that a parallel route from the Porter Area into Chicago hasn't been built or is really even being seriously talked about is beyond me. The old PRR and NYC mainlines parallel eachother for much of that distance, each was two or more tracks back in the day and the passenger trains went lightening fast leaving Englewood Station going east out of the city. Today, a consolidated route uses the NYC alignment east of Hammond-Whiting Indiana and the PRR to the west. Parallel empty railbed remains for nearly the entire distance from Burns Harbor to Englewood....a separate right-of-way could be reinstalled on grade that already exists!

[ghettopalmetto]

Au contraire, my good man!

11/30/2010 8:55:00 AM
Northwest Indiana high-speed rail work to start in 2011

Gitte Laasby, Post-Tribune

Construction will start next year on the $71.4 million railroad project that the feds authorized for Northwest Indiana in early 2010, state transportation officials said Monday.

The project, which is supposed to relieve congestion in a bottleneck from Porter County to the Indiana/Illinois state line, is paid solely by stimulus funding. It's expected to create about 700 jobs each year for two years.

http://www.indianabusinessnews.com/m...rticleID=57238

[Hermod]

Just for shits and giggles:

I was going through some of the archives at the Deerfield Beach Railroad Museum and came across a 1973 Modern Railroads report entitled "1973 Transit: City-by-City".

For Detroit, it included SEMTA operations of :

Penn-Central running a Detroit-Ann Arbor commuter line [[37.3 miles) with one round trip per day using a Budd RDC and providing 100 "rides" on an average weekday [[i.e. 50 in and 50 out).

Grand Trunk Western running Pontiac-Detroit [[26.1 miles) with six trains daily [[total of 17 coaches in service) and providing 1700 "rides" on an average weekday [[850 in and 850 out).

They also forecast SEMTA construction of 93 route miles of rapid transit that by 1990 would have 500 cars operating on six corridors. They stated that funding was in place and was just waiting completion of the final studies.