Cigarette laws in Detroit/Michigan

[Lowell]

Had the legislature not passed a bill, a referendum was coming and would have passed by a very wide margin. Casino lobbyists among others saw the handwriting on the wall and pushed the legislation to avoid the referendum. They were able to peel away just enough Detroit Democrats in their casino districts to get their exemption. In the end they cornered the majority of the legislature with a no casino exempt = no smoking ban dilemma.

Hence we have the irony where the casino oligopoly with no business competition being exempted while all the mom and pops with lots of competition didn't. This, in turn, has become a rallying point for the dwindling smoking lobby to boo hoo over. I wish it would have gone to referendum, and perhaps it still will, for the sake of the casino workers and to totally ban if from all work and public places.

[bobby wobby]

I hate these damn cigerette laws!

[mittengal]

In fact, tonight, I'm going out to the bar to smoke. Big deal. Don't try to stop me.

Maybe your mother won't allow you to go, since you probably live in her basement!

[sumas]

So now, I am a smoking troll. Wierd to say the least.

Got a den full of "civic of the year" awards. I guess I should curl up and die because I have a bad habit. For the record, I curtail my habit in front of youth and old folk. Shoot me!

Reviewed what I wrote. Smoking bans don't bother me a whit! People should not have to tolerate my bad.

Just talking about free enterprise.

Seriously happy you are sin free and foot loose to pursue your frame by frame pictures of a city I love. Mostly you just show a city in decline and ignore a city that has every sign of re-birth.

[Lowell]

You are a outstanding poster Sumas and I always enjoy your posts and care for Detroit and its struggles and triumphs. Just because I differ on some points of this issue doesn't diminish that respect or agreement on so much more with both you or Detoritnerd.

Yes I display topics of decline but I also cover many positive aspects and firmaly believe we are headed toward better future for Detroit and the entire international metro. For that I have been frequently called a dreamer and a pollyanna. We are in a city going in two directions, but the overall trend is is in the better direction and increasingly so, when measured over time. If you view the history of topics in TOUR DETROIT page you will find that both directions are portrayed.

[Johnlodge]

Got a den full of "civic of the year" awards.

But it stinks horribly of stale ashtray? That's your right though. Just don't make me smell that way.

[Ravine]

I'll bring my pipe, along with a few bowlfuls-worth of "Frenchy's Sunza Bitches." [[And I am not making that up.)
Everybody will feel differently about what is excessive and stinky smoke and what is not.

[Detroitnerd]

That's OK. If you guys approve of a law so strict that it creates a quasi-legal class of speakeasies, so be it. I was only interested in the proposition that instead of the quasi-legal places we have now, we just permit them and get it over with. If you're opposed to that, I'm happy to continue to live outside the law if it means being warm and comfortable. Just don't narc out my spots and you are free to chortle with glee at the thought of some 80-year-old man having to leave a bar he's smoked in his entire life so he can have his puff in subfreezing weather.

[jefferson78]

That's OK. If you guys approve of a law so strict that it creates a quasi-legal class of speakeasies, so be it. I was only interested in the proposition that instead of the quasi-legal places we have now, we just permit them and get it over with. If you're opposed to that, I'm happy to continue to live outside the law if it means being warm and comfortable. Just don't narc out my spots and you are free to chortle with glee at the thought of some 80-year-old man having to leave a bar he's smoked in his entire life so he can have his puff in subfreezing weather.

Most chronic smokers never make it to their 80th birthday. And if they did, I doubt you'd see them hang out in a bar.

[Detroitnerd]

Most chronic smokers never make it to their 80th birthday. And if they did, I doubt you'd see them hang out in a bar.

Ah, but some chronic smokers do make it to 80 and 90 and 100. And a lot of them hang out at vets' halls, private clubs where they now cannot smoke in the bar, thanks to the overbroad law. But you wouldn't know about any of that, though it doesn't stop you from mouthing off. Anyway, I'm sure you hang with a better, younger crowd.

By the way, there are also plenty of smug, self-righteous people who don't smoke or drink -- and walk outside and get hit by a Mack truck and die.

[Eric_c]

Can't believe I'm even getting involved in this, but I can't help but think of a specific example I feel is worth mentioning.

A few years ago, a friend of mine took out a mortgage and bought an historic building in which he wanted to open a bar. The fellow smokes and so do most of his friends. For two years, hammer in hand and cigarette in mouth, he and his friends built the dream.

He organized one of the best beer selections and kitchens in town and [[smoke in mouth) opened for business.

What I see is a man who bought his own building, did all of his own work and did it all to his specifications and to the best of his ability.

Now, he's being told he can't smoke in what is essentially his own living room.

What's wrong with having smoking and non-smoking licenses? Same cost. Just smoking or non. Patrons as well as potential employees have the right to choose where they want to eat/drink/work and the rights of the property owner are also protected.

What's the problem with that?

[blackmath]

Can't believe I'm even getting involved in this, but I can't help but think of a specific example I feel is worth mentioning.

A few years ago, a friend of mine took out a mortgage and bought an historic building in which he wanted to open a bar. The fellow smokes and so do most of his friends. For two years, hammer in hand and cigarette in mouth, he and his friends built the dream.

He organized one of the best beer selections and kitchens in town and [[smoke in mouth) opened for business.

What I see is a man who bought his own building, did all of his own work and did it all to his specifications and to the best of his ability.

Now, he's being told he can't smoke in what is essentially his own living room.

What's wrong with having smoking and non-smoking licenses? Same cost. Just smoking or non. Patrons as well as potential employees have the right to choose where they want to eat/drink/work and the rights of the property owner are also protected.

What's the problem with that?

Couldn't agree more. Plus, the state could make a killing off of those licenses.

[jefferson78]

Ah, but some chronic smokers do make it to 80 and 90 and 100. And a lot of them hang out at vets' halls, private clubs where they now cannot smoke in the bar, thanks to the overbroad law. But you wouldn't know about any of that, though it doesn't stop you from mouthing off. Anyway, I'm sure you hang with a better, younger crowd.

By the way, there are also plenty of smug, self-righteous people who don't smoke or drink -- and walk outside and get hit by a Mack truck and die.

Like I said, most chronic smokers do not make it past their 80th birthday.
So some might, and for those few we should change this law that protects the majority of people?
Just what are you complaining about? Have a little more whine with those cigs.

[Johnlodge]

Just smoke Chesterfields, they don't harm you at all! Science says so!

[Detroitnerd]

Like I said, most chronic smokers do not make it past their 80th birthday. So some might, and for those few we should change this law that protects the majority of people?

You do realize I'm talking about my dear dad here, don't you? Nah, you simply choose not to care because it makes you feel better that these people are so rare.

There is such a thing as minority rights. Just because you don't care about the people who are older and have to go outside to smoke in freezing conditions doesn't mean that we can pass overbroad laws telling people what they may do in their own bar or clubhouse.

Just what are you complaining about? Have a little more whine with those cigs.

Complaining about my dad being forced out into the subzero weather? Oh, how nice of you to belittle my concern by calling it whining. Very mature. Right in line with your other generalizations and half-thoughts.

[Johnlodge]

You forgot to put that blue emoticon after your post.

[Detroitnerd]

You forgot to put that blue emoticon after your post.

[jefferson78]

Yeah nerd, I'm supposed to know you're talking about your dad, since you mentioned him many times.
If you have a relative over 80 who smokes and now may have to go outside in cold weather to practice their filthy habit, then maybe you should try talking them into quitting. That's if you are as concerned about him as you pretend to be. That's being mature. But no, you think we should change our laws to accommodate these people. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.
If he's so stubborn not to quit then I guess he has to live with the consequences. And so will you.

[Detroitnerd]

Yeah nerd, I'm supposed to know you're talking about your dad, since you mentioned him many times.

Just a little bit of personal information to let you know that there's more to it than you care to acknowledge.

If you have a relative over 80 who smokes and now may have to go outside in cold weather to practice their filthy habit, then maybe you should try talking them into quitting. That's if you are as concerned about him as you pretend to be. That's being mature.

Maturity can also mean accepting and loving people that you cannot change. Understanding them, loving them in spite of their "filthy" habits. We are supposed to take people who've lived their whole lives, contributed to the community, and then, when we decide what's best for them, deny them their final simple pleasures and re-educate them? This is what it has come to: Even as you're going to execute somebody, you swab them with alcohol to kill germs and deny them a final cigarette. For their own good, of course.

But no, you think we should change our laws to accommodate these people. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.

Why shouldn't we change our laws to accommodate people who want to do something they enjoy together in a shared space? Just as our laws accommodate people who want smokeless environments, why doesn't the law accommodate those who want a choice? Veterans who went overseas and fought for this country now can't even smoke a cigarette in their VFW hall?

And when you say "nobody is forcing anyone to do anything," you must not understand what it is you're saying. That's not only untrue, it's absurd.

If he's so stubborn not to quit then I guess he has to live with the consequences. And so will you.

Don't worry about me. I know some places to go and enjoy a nice warm smoke indoors. Drives you nuts, don't it?

Puritanism is the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
--H. L. Mencken

[stromberg2]

Sumas, Just so you know, there is a drive-thru liquor store here in Monroe. Only one. It is very popular, but I would think the fumes from the cars would choke a horse.

Stromberg2

[R8RBOB]

I see you guys are still talking about this. This thing has been beaten down to the ground. I will be honest. I am for the ban and I hope the ban will one day extend to the casinos. That said, I am not all heartless only because I once smoked but been clean now for 8 years. For you opponents of the ban, if you feel that smokers should be able to smoke at the bars, to go back to where we used to be then you have a GOP House, a GOP Senate and a GOP governor. If smokers feel that they have a right to smoke then let the legislature repeal the ban and we can go back to a time before May 1st.

[jbd441]

I see you guys are still talking about this. This thing has been beaten down to the ground. I will be honest. I am for the ban and I hope the ban will one day extend to the casinos. That said, I am not all heartless only because I once smoked but been clean now for 8 years. For you opponents of the ban, if you feel that smokers should be able to smoke at the bars, to go back to where we used to be then you have a GOP House, a GOP Senate and a GOP governor. If smokers feel that they have a right to smoke then let the legislature repeal the ban and we can go back to a time before May 1st.

Great post and there are alot more of them on this thread for and against. I can see both sides having been a smoker for 25+ years and a non-smoker for 4. Maybe MI can mirror their ban like Florida's where smoking is legal in bars that don't serve food. That would keep the smoking in the bars and get it out of the restaurants. Then the bar owners themselves can decide whether to having smoking in their establishments.

Oh and when you really think about it, we elect the politicians to represent us. So in a round about way we do vote to enact and approve these laws.

And the reasoning behind the "sin" tax on cigarettes is the money is to be used for educating young people not to start smoking and to encourage adults to stop.

IMO

[R8RBOB]

Great post and there are alot more of them on this thread for and against. I can see both sides having been a smoker for 25+ years and a non-smoker for 4. Maybe MI can mirror their ban like Florida's where smoking is legal in bars that don't serve food. That would keep the smoking in the bars and get it out of the restaurants. Then the bar owners themselves can decide whether to having smoking in their establishments.

Oh and when you really think about it, we elect the politicians to represent us. So in a round about way we do vote to enact and approve these laws.

And the reasoning behind the "sin" tax on cigarettes is the money is to be used for educating young people not to start smoking and to encourage adults to stop.

IMO

I think Michigan could have copied California law and that would have allowed smoking on patios and allowed the bars to designated a room where smokers could go and smoke without having to leave out of the bar. That way the smokers could avoid the cold that Dnerd was referring to. There was ways around this but we needed a smoking ban I suppose.

[Ray1936]

I smoked a pack a day for forty years. On November 9, 2001, I fondly caressed my last one, lit it, and enjoyed it. I then quit cold turkey. Found double bubble gum to be a help for a few months, but no other crutches.

Best damn thing I ever did.

If I can do it.....YOU CAN TOO!

[billpdx]

I thought it was embarrasing that it took so long to get the smoking ban. It made us look like a cultural backwater.