Cigarette laws in Detroit/Michigan

[Bong-Man]

Once the fire safety cigs came out, I started rolling my own. Sometimes I get a bit confused as to what I'm smoking....but it's all good.

[Johnlodge]

Break free from the man! Ignore their special blends of neurotoxins meant to keep you firmly under their thumb while they slowly kill you and drain your money, even as you obediently sully up to the counter of the local liquor-lotto and say "Thank you sir, may I have [[cough, hack) another!!"

[johnsmith]

#1 Quit whining!, the majority of michigan voters put this law on the books, not "lawmakers" - The people want this law, get used to it!
#2 smokers "get charged monstrous taxes"? What a joke! Take a look at what they pay in New York, $12-$14 per pack due to taxes. Many other states are taxed higher than Michigan..., maybe we need to raise the tax to match NY, if you can't afford it... Quit!
#3 We listened to all the crybaby smokers before WE passed this law by a clear majority, do we really need to hear the minority that didn't get their way still whining about it?! Get Over It!!!

What are you talking about? The smoking ban was never on a ballot, the public did not vote on this issue. The "lawmakers" indeed, put this law on the books. GEEZ!

I was thinking the same thing. Vic01's post is wrong on all 3 counts. #1) The lawmakers, not "we the people" put the law on the books. #2) When a tax is equal to half or more than the product price itself, I'd call that a MONSTROUS tax. #3) Again, "we the people" had no say in this law.

I do, however, very much enjoy the no-smoking atmosphere of eating out now. But I do believe it should be up to the individual establishments and not some overpaid legislator in Lansing.

If they're really worried about public health, they'd raise the taxes even more, but they're afraid they'd lose the tax revenue. There is no way they'd want the public to quit smoking. Millions in revenue would be lost, and as we have all witnessed over the past few years, our legislature are bumbling fools when it experiences a decrease in tax revenue.

[R8RBOB]

Well, what do you know? Another thread about the smoking ban? How of these threads are on DetroitYes? Each thread have the same people saying the same things. "Smoking is bad" "Taking my freedoms away" What is left to say?

[Detroitnerd]

Well, what do you know? Another thread about the smoking ban? How of these threads are on DetroitYes? Each thread have the same people saying the same things. "Smoking is bad" "Taking my freedoms away" What is left to say?

Well, this one has a new tack: Proposing a license allowing individual tavern keepers to let patrons smoke. Not a bad call. Lansing has finally made peace with sin taxes. Now let's keep smokers warm in the winter.

[Big Dog]

Give it up and quit!....

[Johnlodge]

Your "T" zone loves it!!! MMMMM yummy cancer.

[R8RBOB]

Well, this one has a new tack: Proposing a license allowing individual tavern keepers to let patrons smoke. Not a bad call. Lansing has finally made peace with sin taxes. Now let's keep smokers warm in the winter.

It won't work because providing a license to allow smoking would circumvent the smoking ban. Let's say the state said "hey we know the law states you have to stop selling liquor by 2AM but if you buy this license you can continue to sell until 4AM" and some bars jump on the opportunity but others can't. They will complain that providing this license creates an disadvantage to them because they cannot afford to sell until 4AM. Creating a loophole to the law only benefits the ones who can afford it. Either enforce the ban or repeal it.

[Wingnatic]

I smoke , don't have a problem with the ban . But if Michigan is going to have a '' sin tax'' , then do it for beer , wine , and liquor as well . I think the last time anything was done with taxes on beer was back in the 50's when it was lowered .
I think Michigan has one of the highest taxes on smokes , is because it's easy money , because if they really cared about people's health like they claim , it would be an across the board sin tax .

[Detroitnerd]

It won't work because providing a license to allow smoking would circumvent the smoking ban. Let's say the state said "hey we know the law states you have to stop selling liquor by 2AM but if you buy this license you can continue to sell until 4AM" and some bars jump on the opportunity but others can't. They will complain that providing this license creates an disadvantage to them because they cannot afford to sell until 4AM. Creating a loophole to the law only benefits the ones who can afford it. Either enforce the ban or repeal it.

Well, with discussion of the Christmas Day ban being dropped [[of course, if you buy a special permit) or the ban on Sunday morning liquor service being dropped [[again, with a special permit bought), it resonated with current events a bit. Slight liberalization of the law wouldn't mean people are going to smoke next to you at the Emory, just at the shithole bar that attracts smokers and drinkers -- you know, that place you'd never go to in a million years, with smokers who happily work there. And that's an arrangement I'm sure everybody can agree on.

[milesdriven]

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the smokers,
and it really pissed me off and I started going to the bar in Toledo instead of driving to Detroit, until I found out that a few bars had the balls to allow people to still smoke inside and I decided that these were the bars I would visit going forward.

[Detroitnerd]

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the smokers,
and it really pissed me off and I started going to the bar in Toledo instead of driving to Detroit, until I found out that a few bars had the balls to allow people to still smoke inside and I decided that these were the bars I would visit going forward.

Thanks for injecting a bit of much-needed levity. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

[Augustiner]

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the smokers,
and it really pissed me off and I started going to the bar in Toledo instead of driving to Detroit, until I found out that a few bars had the balls to allow people to still smoke inside and I decided that these were the bars I would visit going forward.

Did you just equate the smoking ban with the fucking Holocaust?

ETA: if you're just injecting levity, then keep on keepin' on. I guess I've just run across too many people whose level of passion about this issue is way out of proportion to its significance.

[R8RBOB]

Well, with discussion of the Christmas Day ban being dropped [[of course, if you buy a special permit) or the ban on Sunday morning liquor service being dropped [[again, with a special permit bought), it resonated with current events a bit. Slight liberalization of the law wouldn't mean people are going to smoke next to you at the Emory, just at the shithole bar that attracts smokers and drinkers -- you know, that place you'd never go to in a million years, with smokers who happily work there. And that's an arrangement I'm sure everybody can agree on.

Since you mention Christmas, I wasn't happy that Jenny and the crooked politicians decided rather than repeal the blue law that prevented Christmas sales and Sunday morning sales they would add a fee to to conduct a normal business transaction. Only in Michigan can they conduct business like this.

[Detroitnerd]

Since you mention Christmas, I wasn't happy that Jenny and the crooked politicians decided rather than repeal the blue law that prevented Christmas sales and Sunday morning sales they would add a fee to to conduct a normal business transaction. Only in Michigan can they conduct business like this.

I'm not happy, but it's to be expected, naturally.

[sumas]

Actually I have found a great deal of humor in these posts. I have saved a bundle not going out and about much. As mentioned, I can go places if I want, that ignore draconian law.

Strange, Lowell, that you support and/or tolerate vile racist trolls on this forum in the interest of free speech but don't support free market enterprise.

Not saying you need to go home stinky from my smoke, just saying local businesses should be able to pick/choose who their clients might be.

Laugh too at the new liquor laws, can buy early now but for Gods sake don't drink and drive. What's next, drive through liquor stores? Legal, in other states. Entice, attract but don't use?

Michigan's new motto should be, "We will tax and then throw you to the wolves.

[rjk]

Smokers are basically modern day lepers.
I wouldn't be surprised if people start clubbing them to death as if they were a baby seal.

About the only time I see smokers nowadays is when I'm in a bar. Does the state have some sort of narc line so that some weenie can do some snitching?

A bar just doesn't seem right to me if there isn't at least a little bit of smoke. Clean air is overrated.

[Detroitnerd]

--Proposition 421 Radio Spot--

Woman: If only the world was less like this...

Man: I could use a smoke [[sound of lighter)

Woman 2: Hey! Put that out!

Woman: ...and more like this...

Man: I could use a smoke [[sound of lighter)

Woman 2: You murderer! I might have children one day! [[sound of gunshot)

Woman: Smoking kills. Unless you kill first. If you’re around a smoker, you
-will- die. Smokers may look like they’re relaxed and having fun, but don’t
believe it. Vote "yes" on Proposition 421. Let’s outlaw smoking everywhere-
even in people’s homes, and allow honest citizens to legally kill anyone who
smokes. Let’s live in a world without smokers! Prohibition works- let’s prove
it. Let’s move up the food chain. It’s time to smoke the smokers! Vote
"yes" on Proposition 421.

[Lowell]

Are you seriously equating enjoying a cigarette and a beer with taking a shit on the bar?

Nice try but I choose my own equations and words. When you want to stink up the place, either way you choose, leave the room; it's the law. As for your scatological equation you might consider which of your two smells are poisining you, those around you and the hapless employees trapped in job they need to survive while you 'enjoy' yourself.

[Detroitnerd]

Nice try but I choose my own equations and words. When you want to stink up the place, either way you choose, leave the room; it's the law. As for your scatological equation you might consider which of your two smells are poisining you, those around you and the hapless employees trapped in job they need to survive while you 'enjoy' yourself.

It's not my scatological equation, Lowell. It's yours. How could it be mine when you made it?

As for poisoning people, we get poisoned every day by a million things, the worst of which don't smell particularly bad.

Next thing you know, goo-goos and reformers will try to take the sacred leaf away from the First Nations. No doubt for their improvement ...

[sumas]

rjk, please keep me laughing. Remember when high schools had smoking lounges as did librarys. Gone before I came of age. On the other hand I turned legal when the drinking age in MI became 18. Had great fake id before then, mostly went to Windsor. No cover for girls in the bars there.

Smoked in class at WSU, [[sometimes cigars) drank coffee and ate bagels in classes too. So shoot me.

Don't want people to get a wrong impression, married 35 yrs, two great kids, great life in all. Still smoke.

Just do not deal easily with dumb laws telling me what I should or should not do. Sorry for the puritans out there. No one tells me how to live my life.

Must be the sixties in me.

[Lowell]

It's not my scatological equation, Lowell. It's yours. How could it be mine when you made it?

Hardly my friend. I merely mentioned 'restroom' and you took a dump on the bar. Read what you wrote.

Nonetheless, the tables are turned and forever. Instead of the non-smokers having to go out into the cold for fresh air, the smokers are finding out what non-smokers have had to do all these years. Back to my original point, if bar owners think it is so vital for their business to bow to smokers needs, then one would think it would to their benefit to provide heated outside areas.

[Lowell]

Strange, Lowell, that you support and/or tolerate vile racist trolls on this forum in the interest of free speech but don't support free market enterprise.

Nice try Sumas. Racist trolls are run off continually but smoking trolls aren't so don't worry.

I support free market enterprise. I also support laws that doesn't let 'free' enterprise pump toxic smoke out their chimneys, dump raw sewage in our rivers, and subject their employees and customers to unsafe working situations. Connect those dots with the current issue and it will clear up the smoke considerably.

It is interesting how vehement the smoking minority has become. One might even think it increases in proportion to the temperature dropping.

[Detroitnerd]

If smoking is that important to a business then let them build heated outdoor shelters for their smokers. They already do sometime similar for other non-toxic odors - they're called restrooms.

This is the passage I'm talking about. It does seem to equate smoking and shitting. I usually have a pretty good reading comprehension score.

Nonetheless, the tables are turned and forever. Instead of the non-smokers having to go out into the cold for fresh air, the smokers are finding out what non-smokers have had to do all these years. Back to my original point, if bar owners think it is so vital for their business to bow to smokers needs, then one would think it would to their benefit to provide heated outside areas.

The working class people who smoke go to bars that make a precarious living. The tavern owners now must build outdoor heated areas [[an onerous financial burden) on razor-thin profit margins? It's unreasonable. If a bunch of people want to smoke in a bar, let them. Nonsmokers can go to 99.99 percent of business establishments now without worrying about that dreaded smoke.

But I don't think the matter is settled forever. I know everybody who wanted prohibition of smoking in workplaces is smugly self-satisfied, and repeats this mantra that no smoking will every be allowed in workplaces again, but don't expect the ashtray to go the way of the spittoon just yet. People will always smoke, and will always argue about smoking too.

In fact, tonight, I'm going out to the bar to smoke. Big deal. Don't try to stop me.

[hogz]

Vic01 your post is untruthful and misleading. As other posters pointed out this smoking ban was NOT on the ballot. The people did not vote on this.

It is obviously a win-win to let businesses pay for a permit to allow smoking.