'stay and fight'

**Danny** · December-09-10, 02:52 PM

The biggerst fight for Detroit is the racial divide from its surrounding suburbs against political corruption, vacant buildings, abandon houses and of course violent crime from yahoos. The fight to save Detroit and its ghettohoods is not for talk are writing about these urban problems in this forum and its taking community action. I as a STREET PROPHET have to taking action in the ghettoes of Detroit for 20 years and I still keep up the fight today.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Why not you all do your part? Can anyone in this forum told me about their contribution to ghettohoods of Detroit for Neda's sake?

**Gannon** · December-09-10, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Augustiner

I feel like your "reassessment" is focused a bit too firmly inward to be effective. That is, assuming your objective is to try to understand the issues and work through them productively, rather than to absolve yourself of complicity in them. I'm just saying.

I appreciate that...didn't mean to sound glib or introspective...but when presented with something that rings even partly true, I must investigate it.

My conclusions about homogeneous groups is founded on a lifetime of experience...but when I SAY that [[especially my cutesy commentary about fleeing groups that all look like me), what I 'hear' back [[in my mind) is someone then telling me that THEIR opposition to 'another' race is also founded on a lifetime of experience.

It opens the door to logical fallacy, not that it PROVES it.

Also, it doesn't indicate in me any complicit action or inaction...because I know how I accept and relate with people.

I can only approach this easily from my perspective, even though my mind usually allows a free-form consideration of multiple facets or aspects nearly simultaneously [[busy synapses). It IS a very complex topic, and every time I approach it I learn more.

Thanks for the feedback.

**EASTSIDE CAT 67-83** · December-10-10, 12:49 AM

[quote=Gannon;204195]

"I'll check myself when this urge hits me again...but a lifelong of experience in monoculture experiences has led to this conclusion."

No need to check yourself friend, you are who you are and should be proud of achieving this higher level of human awareness associated with the monoculture loathing trait thing you have going on, that must play out pretty tough at family gatherings
.

Cheers

Ravine · December-10-10, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Gannon

I appreciate that...didn't mean to sound glib or introspective...but when presented with something that rings even partly true, I must investigate it.

My conclusions about homogeneous groups is founded on a lifetime of experience...but when I SAY that [[especially my cutesy commentary about fleeing groups that all look like me), what I 'hear' back [[in my mind) is someone then telling me that THEIR opposition to 'another' race is also founded on a lifetime of experience.

It opens the door to logical fallacy, not that it PROVES it.

Also, it doesn't indicate in me any complicit action or inaction...because I know how I accept and relate with people.

I can only approach this easily from my perspective, even though my mind usually allows a free-form consideration of multiple facets or aspects nearly simultaneously [[busy synapses). It IS a very complex topic, and every time I approach it I learn more.

Thanks for the feedback.

Maybe if you were just plain-speaking [[like a "mere human") and forthright about what you really think & feel, you wouldn't end up tripping over your own excess verbiage and feeling compelled to compose laborious, tangential mini-essays wherein you do little more than just dig yourself deeper into the incoherent maze of webs you spin in your perpetual mission to convince everyone that you exist in some sort of state of elevated consciousness.

I never "wimped out" on anything here, and I didn't go berserk. I reacted, pretty much, as any regular ol' person would react when accused of "wimping out."
Everyone can see exactly what happened here, and why, but you are stubborn, and rather than admit that you fucked up, you insist on portraying it as our failure to comprehend your deep thoughts. It's a steaming load of bullshit, and you know it.

Anyone who has spent any extended time in this forum can identify you as a good person, warm-hearted and intelligent, and your off-the-wall thoughts are just as worthwhile as anyone else's on-the-wall thoughts. More so, sometimes.
You paint yourself into corners like this one, needlessly but not truly by accident.

Uh, Cheers, goddamit

**Gannon** · December-10-10, 06:55 AM

For a bunch of white cats, my family is very diversified. Laughter and love cure a whole HOST of ills. As soon as I can find the larger monoculture group doing the SAME, then I'll be fine.

If I can get diversified groups to laugh and love and forgive and MOVE ON past this divisive bullshit, then I will feel that I've succeeded in this incarnation.

As for the loathing part...there IS none...excepting very special circumstances.

The dictionary defines it thusly:

loathe
[lohth]
–verb [[used with object), loathed, loath·ing. to feel disgust or intense aversion for; abhor: I loathe people who spread malicious gossip.

I have NONE of that towards anyone due their race, even and especially my own. I have some of it ONLY when the herd acts in common against another race, even without thinking about it, when I sense a hint of that institutional racism. If it is overt and blatant, I'm gone in a New York minute.

Even though I split, I will STILL not waste energy on loathing. That is a negative that only continues to fuel the divide. I WILL spend more time sharing with those I know in that group that their behavior and choices are not in line with healing and growth. If they learn and grow themselves, they remain my friend. If I continue to hear even racist JOKES, they are cut off. I've done this even recently, losing a twenty-five year friend, because he refused to soften his hard heart.

I am NOT in denial that this trend exists. I only am saying that in order to transcend it, we need to deny it and all agree, in our groups of hopefully increasing size and/or circles of influence, that identifying ourselves by our race has NO place...it does NO good.

I am NOT saying to deny ones heritage or to be ashamed of it, nor am I saying I believe we should all interbreed to make ONE wonderfully deep tanned world...although from the mixed-race children I've seen and known, it DOES seem that the Maker enjoys the blending of genes. All of the mixed-race people I know are some of the most beautiful specimens of humans.

Not to take anything away from the other beauty in the human race, of course. It's just that we ARE one race with curious differences in melatonin levels...and varieties of hair. We are one race, the HUMAN race. That is all I see in a positive and progressive and healthy future, so I do all I can every day to make it happen in my life.

All I'm saying is for others to agree and join me. It really isn't that hard.

Cheers

**Gannon** · December-10-10, 07:00 AM

It REALLY isn't that hard.

**Gannon** · December-10-10, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by Ravine

goddamit

That is all I heard from your bitter self this morning. Why are you even wasting your energy on keeping this silliness alive?!

Oh yeah, so you can win. I get it. Hope it makes you feel better, I will go back to my previous conclusion and just ignore your negative energy.

I will not let you taint my day ever again, if I can find the energy to remember this lesson.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt is simply not worth it.

Cheers to everyone else!

**Pam** · December-10-10, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Gannon

That is all I heard from your bitter self this morning. Why are you even wasting your energy on keeping this silliness alive?!

Oh yeah, so you can win. I get it. Hope it makes you feel better, I will go back to my previous conclusion and just ignore your negative energy.

I will not let you taint my day ever again, if I can find the energy to remember this lesson.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt is simply not worth it.

Cheers to everyone else!

Did you miss the nice things he said about you?

Anyone who has spent any extended time in this forum can identify you as a good person, warm-hearted and intelligent, and your off-the-wall thoughts are just as worthwhile as anyone else's on-the-wall thoughts. More so, sometimes

I would say that's a pretty big olive branch. Come on now, hug and make up.

Vox · December-10-10, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Gannon

That is all I heard from your bitter self this morning. Why are you even wasting your energy on keeping this silliness alive?!Oh yeah, so you can win. I get it. Hope it makes you feel better, I will go back to my previous conclusion and just ignore your negative energy.I will not let you taint my day ever again, if I can find the energy to remember this lesson.Giving you the benefit of the doubt is simply not worth it,Cheers to everyone else!

So how is it that it\'s always someone elses fault?

**Gannon** · December-10-10, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Pam

Did you miss the nice things he said about you?

I would say that's a pretty big olive branch. Come on now, hug and make up.

Not in my re-read AFTER my post...but they are so coached in seriously horrible digs against my character and behavior [[which I feel totally unwarranted and, well, spiteful) that I chose to let the post stand on its own.

I know I'm even open to the charge of needing to say the last word against him, and thusly continuing the contest...appearing as if I'M trying to 'win'...but that is not my intent.

Not that anyone will believe it. I cannot take the energy to care at the moment, I've larger fish to fry in my world...projects that need to get done without these worthless distractions. I take what he says with a grain of salt...there is some underlying issue in him against me, which puzzles me to no end. But like some mysteries in life, I allow this one to go unsolved. On purpose.

All the while taking what was said as constructive criticism, as always. I may react harshly against it, but believe me, I chew on it more before I decide to spit or swallow. No matter how bitter or sweet.

And I'll remain as transparent as usual, even IF it opens me to convenient digs from the likes of Vox...who say things JUST to get a rise out of me and/or put me down for whatever benefit they imagine they get from expending the energy.

Cheers anyways...it is going to be an amazing day today, despite the way this conversation goes.

Thanks again, Pam, for your attempts at reconciliation. I do not believe Ravine has the resiliency to see the error of being so negative always...and hope against hope it doesn't affect his health or longevity.

Sincerely,
John

**sirrealone** · December-10-10, 08:47 AM

This same argument really could be looked at from a state of Michigan perspective if you think about it.

Quite honestly, I've never lived in the city proper, but I still consider myself a Detroiter [[though I'm sure many here would disagree, but that's your right) and I believe that a healthy Detroit is key to the area.

However, as mentioned above, I have the same type of 'leave or fight' type feelings when it comes to the state. Many of my friends have up and left the state where my family has chosen to stay. Does this mean potentially less income or living in a state with less means and luxuries? Sure. But, I've been steadfast in my determination to stay here as I believe Michigan is worth fighting for.

The way I look at it, as long as you're in Michigan, whether it be in Detroit, just outside of Detroit, or somewhere else altogether, I think the number one key thing is that you fight for our state. If everybody in Michigan did that, it'd be a sight to behold.

**jcole** · December-10-10, 09:22 AM

I do not believe Ravine has the resiliency to see the error of being so negative always...and hope against hope it doesn't affect his health or longevity.

Sincerely,
John

Well, that's certainly the saucier calling the cauldron a darker shade of grey.

Vox · December-10-10, 09:24 AM

And I\'ll remain as transparent as usual, even IF it opens me to convenient digs from the likes of Vox...who say things JUST to get a rise out of me and/or put me down for whatever benefit they imagine they get from expending the energy

I don\'t suppose that you\'ve experienced this model before.http://hubpages.com/hub/johariwindow

Ravine · December-10-10, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Pam

Did you miss the nice things he said about you?

I would say that's a pretty big olive branch. Come on now, hug and make up.

Thanks for being generous of spirit, Pam, but No, That's alright, Never mind. Clearly, insisting that I'm the Blue Meanie, here, is much too important.
And, my ego is sufficiently gargantuan to make "winning" anything, here, a bauble I don't need for my out-sized crown o' thorns. The evidence that everyone sees this incident for what it is is more than enough gratification for me, and undoubtedly more than I deserve.
The statement you quoted from me is, to the extent that I can estimate the general DY public opinion, the truth. [[And I happen to believe it, myself.)
But, y'know, that whole "can't handle the truth" business seems to come without a mirror.

**Gannon** · December-10-10, 10:40 AM

An oversized ego may indeed make one imagine that everyone agrees with them.

I do not suffer those delusions. I know I'm far enough in the outfield to be vending hotdogs. I am surprised whenever anyone agrees with me.

I do not see the point in ever paying attention to you ever again, Ravine, and regret that I spent time reconsidering your value to any conversation here.

I find none.

Sincerely,
John

**jcole** · December-10-10, 10:57 AM

Well, John, as you are not the arbiter of taste and value here, I don't think it really matters if you pay attention to him or not; others certainly will.

Pingu · December-10-10, 11:23 AM

The question as posed precludes any intrusion of "race" into the debate. It wasn't "[[Should we whites) come back and reconquer?". It was, rather, "[[Should we blacks) stay and fight?". The residents of Detroit should be given wide latitude in organizing themselves into armed "deputized" militias.

Combat veterans, Black Muslims, these disciplined stakeholders [[unlike silly needle-freaks) would make mincemeat out of the glamorized gangstas, and youth would have positive role models. If it's a fight you want, this is the kind of fight we need.

**Gannon** · December-10-10, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by jcole

Well, John, as you are not the arbiter of taste and value here, I don't think it really matters if you pay attention to him or not; others certainly will.

I never claimed anything of the sort, and have never cared what anyone else does.

We should stop this diversion and return to the conversation at hand, there have already been too many bits and digits wasted on this little spat.

Cheers

**skyl4rk** · December-10-10, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Pingu

The question as posed precludes any intrusion of "race" into the debate. It wasn't "[[Should we whites) come back and reconquer?". It was, rather, "[[Should we blacks) stay and fight?". The residents of Detroit should be given wide latitude in organizing themselves into armed "deputized" militias.

Combat veterans, Black Muslims, these disciplined stakeholders [[unlike silly needle-freaks) would make mincemeat out of the glamorized gangstas, and youth would have positive role models. If it's a fight you want, this is the kind of fight we need.

Comrades, Defend the apartheid system!

**Danny** · December-10-10, 01:48 PM

I would like to see every last folk in this forum to take part for contributing of saving Detroit's neighborhoods and its social infrastructure. Are some of you all did your part?

**Danny** · December-10-10, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by skyl4rk

Comrades, Defend the apartheid system!

What Apartied, Apartied is DEAD!

**Pam** · December-10-10, 03:32 PM

Thanks for being generous of spirit, Pam

I guess I'm a flop as a diplomat.

**EASTSIDE CAT 67-83** · December-10-10, 04:29 PM

[quote=Gannon;205445]For a bunch of white cats, my family is very diversified. Laughter and love cure a whole HOST of ills. As soon as I can find the larger monoculture group doing the SAME, then I'll be fine.

Johnny
Can we just leave race out of this discussion [[white cats = monoculture). Brother you lay down a mean rap, your vocabulary is second only to my mothers - who always made me look words up rather than just tell me. A little less effort and you may just connect with us mere mortals.
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