Murder/suicide in Lafayette Park

[Gannon]

You may be forgetting how REL met us all, she is STILL being very gracious.


Big loss for the city. Every incident like this is a total failure on our part.

[jcole]

You may be forgetting how REL met us all, she is STILL being very gracious.


Big loss for the city. Every incident like this is a total failure on our part.

I guess I never knew how REL met us all. Should I know?

[Stosh]

You may be forgetting how REL met us all, she is STILL being very gracious.


Big loss for the city. Every incident like this is a total failure on our part.

Is that "us" above in usage like the royal "we"? I can't figure out what the hell you mean.

And John, it's not a failure. It's murder. "We" did not fail. The murder's mind did, however. It's not a systemic community "fail".

[REL]

Gannon- with all due respect, how I met you all has nothing to do with my comments on this thread.

Ravine- good point

GOAT- I appreciate your last post.

In a city [[and greater region) with high unemployment, high poverty, poor mental health services, and little hope, we are indeed living in Mad Max times. But the circumstances surrounding each act of violence [[and sadly, murder) can be deeply complex. There is always a backstory, and the effects of the crime affect so many people.

There are grieving families, and apparently a daughter who will grow up without a father. A wife traumatized by the needless death of her husband. That doesn't even take into account the shooter and his father [[from what I'm just reading here), who clearly had their own struggles. There are the neighbors who may be too traumatized to go back to their own homes. There are the cops who had to find the bodies, and the workers who had to clean up the blood from the floors. Not exactly something I find funny.

I just hope people remember that the people in the news are... wait for it... real people. With real lives. With real families, friends and neighbors. Just keep that in mind.

[stasu1213]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/25941838/detail.html

DETROIT -- Detroit police are investigating a possible murder-suicide shooting at an upscale apartment complex near downtown Detroit.
Investigators told Local 4 two men were shot and killed before the gunman shot himself at about 10:30 a.m. Sunday.
The incident happened at an apartment complex on Joliet Place in Lafayette Park near downtown Detroit.
Police said a verbal confrontation between neighbors escalated into the shootings.
Police said a 27-year-old suspect shot and killed a 42-year-old man outside his apartment, then went inside and shot a man in his early 60s, then took his own life.
Neighbors identified the first victim as Kevin Johnson, a local documentary film producer.
Witnesses said Johnson was hosting a holiday gathering with his wife, daughter and friends when an argument with the suspect started.
Witnesses said they heard screams and five to 10 gunshots.
One of Johnson’s neighbors, Robert Andres, said he heard the gunshots and ran outside.
“I saw the man lying on the lawn in front of the townhouse over there and called 911,” Andres said.
Another neighbor, Rebecca Dudash, tried to perform CPR.
“I went over there and tried to administer first aide. I checked his pulse, but he was already gone,” Dudash said.
Dudash said Johnson had a gunshot wound to the head.
Police said they found the suspect dead in his apartment with a weapon next to his hand.
Investigators said they’re working to determine a motive for the murders.

This sad incident was a tragic and isolated. It doesnt have anything to do with Lafayette Park or it's safety. I had remembered being at Lafayette Park's annual yard sale in 2007 where a lady was selling books published by her husband. She was a nice caucasian lady who had told me that her husband was out of town at the moment and she had decided to sell his books at the yardsale as well as some other items. I wonder if this was Kevin Johnson's wife. I had remembered that they had a daughter. Does anyone knows? My prayers and condolences goes out to both families.

[gnome]

Elouise, I am so sorry this horror has visited your neighborhood. Please post whatever funeral info you hear of. This whole deal is just numbingly sad; if you'd ever met Kevin you knew a vibrant man.

[adamjab19]

Easier said than done.

A lot of these people would love to "get a job" if there actually were some.

And even if there were jobs, they're all in the suburbs and we already know who's getting the first crack at those.

Not the right thread for this post but....

Stop. Let's get things straight. It's not that the suburbs [[and really any business regardless of mile rd.) don't hire black people, it just so happens that the suburbs hire employees that have an education or some set of vocational skills which unfortunately a lot of Detroit residents [[who's majority resident happens to be black) don't have. Whose fault is that nowadays to not have an education or a set of job skills? Each individual person who doesn't have an education or a set of job skills. There are so many programs out there to help ANYONE out. And anyway, I frequent many places in my suburb that just so happen to hire black people if you really want to deal a straight race card, you know, instead of looking at the real qualities of a person instead of just their skin color.

Detroit residents are just fine and free to set up their own businesses and employ their own people[[city residents). but when it's own residents rob, steal, burn, and strip the city clean of anything prosperous and any real reason for anyone [[white, black, resident of the city or suburb) to set up shop, well then what do you have left? A city with no jobs [[or very 'weak' jobs) and uneducated thugs with people claiming only the suburbs have jobs that are not available to Detroit residents.

Here is an idea: Instead of building a brand new building I think Detroit should pay for little mirrors and pass them out to the unsavory residents of the city. The mirror would say across it, "The reason the City of Detroit and it's image is the way it is today is because of...."

Really, it's time to bring back some personal responsibility and self efficacy to the C of D.

[EastsideAl]

Not the right thread for this post but....

Stop. Let's get things straight. It's not that the suburbs [[and really any business regardless of mile rd.) don't hire black people, it just so happens that the suburbs hire employees that have an education or some set of vocational skills which unfortunately a lot of Detroit residents [[who's majority resident happens to be black) don't have. Whose fault is that nowadays to not have an education or a set of job skills? Each individual person who doesn't have an education or a set of job skills. There are so many programs out there to help ANYONE out. And anyway, I frequent many places in my suburb that just so happen to hire black people if you really want to deal a straight race card, you know, instead of looking at the real qualities of a person instead of just their skin color.

Detroit residents are just fine and free to set up their own businesses and employ their own people[[city residents). but when it's own residents rob, steal, burn, and strip the city clean of anything prosperous and any real reason for anyone [[white, black, resident of the city or suburb) to set up shop, well then what do you have left? A city with no jobs [[or very 'weak' jobs) and uneducated thugs with people claiming only the suburbs have jobs that are not available to Detroit residents.

Here is an idea: Instead of building a brand new building I think Detroit should pay for little mirrors and pass them out to the unsavory residents of the city. The mirror would say across it, "The reason the City of Detroit and it's image is the way it is today is because of...."

Really, it's time to bring back some personal responsibility and self efficacy to the C of D.

Ummmm... what the hell are you going on about? Did you even read the rest of this thread?

[jerrytimes]

A double-murder suicide is NOT a daily occurrence in Detroit.

The murder part is.

[Elouise]

I want to say two things. First, I heard this morning that Kevin's memorial is on Tuesday and I will post the details when I get them. And secondly, I've been thinking about a comment someone made the other day, saying that we should not expect sensitivity on these boards. I hope that is not true because if it is, then I must expect insensitivity and I don't want to be that kind of person. I have read lots of kind words here and I appreciate that.

[jcole]

I would say don't 'expect' anything and then deal with what you get on an individual basis, just like in real life.

[Ravine]

Choosing to not expect sensitivity does not mean that one should expect insensitivity.
Using my "hanging around in the middle of the street" bit, realizing that you are in danger of being struck does not mean that you should automatically presume that you will be struck.

I have no wish to be hard-hearted, or generally negative, about this matter, and some of the folks here-- with Jcole [[above) as a fine example-- are very sensitive, and can be counted on for some compassion & warmth. The point I was trying to make was that GOAT wasn't out to hurt anyone's feelings, and as GOAT testified, would have withheld the Simpsons reference had GOAT realized that, for some here, the remark may have been all that offensive. I mean, I think that's what GOAT meant.
My further point was that we all probably should remember that we are on an internet forum, and net fora make for a fairly harsh environment, sometimes. There is always going to be a substantial amount of snarkiness and flippancy, and most of the time, no mean-spiritedness is truly intended.
Hell, even REL's response to my post was a bit on the flippant side, but that's fair enough, and I'm not all miffed about it.

Goddamit.

[adamjab19]

Ummmm... what the hell are you going on about? Did you even read the rest of this thread?

as the first line of my post states my comments have nothing to do with this thread but really just with what 313WX had posted.

I am sorry for the loss of life as well as the loss of innocence that occurred in the Lafayette park area.

[ragnarok1981]

I spent the better part of my childhood in Lafayette Park and unfortunately moved away when I was 9. My best friend at the time lived nextdoor to where this tragedy happened. I remember the neighborhood as being a great safe place for us kids to go out and play without our parents having to worry. It breaks my heart to see what has happened there.
I was wondering if anyone could answer a nagging question I have had, was the shooter a longtime resident? I have not seen a name for him in the news so I keep wondering if it was someone I knew back then. Does anyone know?

[mikeinmotown]

What Elouise, Django and English said^

I'm not going to write a 3 page angst ridden post about why the media are mean to Detroit. But based on the media reports and many of the above comments one would think that this was just another day in thug town, two neighbors shooting it up after a rowdy paartay.

This is what happens when you combine sloppy reporting + readers with stereotypes about Detroit who jump to easy conclusions. In this case, at least, the media were not "mean," just sloppy, lazy, in too much of a hurry or all of the above.

I was there. All day. What really happenned can't be explained rationally except as a result of a severe psychotic or schizophrenic breakdown. So when you say "that's crazy," it really was. That is the only way it makes sense. These were no thugs. The victim was a well respected local film and video producer who loved our neighborhood and had lived there most of his life. The shooter was his next door neighbor, a 27 year old who had recently finished his masters degree and was living with his father. There is a history of mental illness in the family.

What happened based on many reports:

There was no party, except perhaps a Thanksgiving Day family dinner three days earlier. It was Sunday morning. Many neighbors were on their way to or from church. At about 10:15 am the shooter knocked on Kevin's front door and was invited in. He appeared tense and angry. He was twitching. He was complaining "what's up with the noise?" There was no noise. He had a gun. Kevin and his wife tried to reason with him and talk him down. He did not respond except to say "it's too late for that." When it was obvious the situation was not improving, Kevin said to his wife "run" and they both ran outside. The shooter followed, and shot and killed Kevin. Kevin's wife ran the other way and was rescued by another neighbor. The shooter then went back inside his unit next door.

The police and EMS showed up right away. Officers were posted around the building and tried to keep people away. It did take a long time for the SWAT team to show up, not sure why. But eventually there were police everywhere, area cordoned off with yellow tape and no one allowed past the perimiter, flak jackets, helmets, gas masks, shields, guys on rooftops with machine guns, the tank, the mobile police station, "come out with your hands up," gas grenades shot into the building, you name it. This went on for several hours. Eventually they went in and found the shooter and his father both dead.

I know that we have more crime in Detroit than most places. But this truly could have happened anywhere.

Our proud, beautiful and almost always peaceful neighborhood is grieving.

To those want to think this is just another gangsta rap verse about Detroit -- get a life. Or at least keep your moronic comments to yourself.

Thank you for posting this. I live at 1300 and the story you explained is exactly what I had heard. I haven't seen any update in the papers. If anyone has please let me know the date in was listed. Lafayette Park is a very safe and great area to live in.

[DetBill]

Thanks for the update/info on this sad occurence.. The general neighborhood is in shock but as always, teams together.. this is what life is like in lafayette park, which is generally, very safe.
Reading some of these ridiculous comments from posters who dont even live here, make me wonder why they dont comment the same way when massive murders took place recently in homes in Sterling Heights and West Bloomfield. This occurence unfortunately happens , everywhere today.

[Hermod]

Is that "us" above in usage like the royal "we"? I can't figure out what the hell you mean.

And John, it's not a failure. It's murder. "We" did not fail. The murder's mind did, however. It's not a systemic community "fail".

Yes, this is not the violence for which Detroit is known. This is an incident which could have happened anywhere.

[ronaldj]

Spouse and oldest son and I knew Kevin through a mutual acquaitance. As things go, we lost touch. Even through the lost years, thought about him and his endeavors.

He was a big personality and extremely enjoyable company. As mentioned in many of the above posts, this crazy action is unfathonable.

[Gannon]

I just checked pictures of him at the insistence of my girlfriend...who was sure I knew Kevin, or had crossed paths with him. Many of her friends are in video post production, and every one of them has history with Kevin.

Turns out he was one of the regulars at the Beaubien Street Saloon when Jams was pouring there. He was always jovial, welcoming, and the room improved with his presence. I never knew his last name.


He truly was one of the city's better ones. What a loss. What a damn shame. It was bad enough that it happened, but always worse when it is someone you have known.

[DocTerry]

This is something of a sidebar, perhaps, but... several times of late when tragedy has occurrred, someone has commented on what they believe to be less than adequate mental health services in Detroit. I will preface this by saying that I am not a provider of mental health services, but do have professional contact with a number of local provider organizations as well as others statewide and nationally. Each organization, of course, has its share of folks just waiting to either retire or move to greener pastures, pay scale and clientele-wise, in the suburbs. However, most are very dedicated and well-trained. On the whole, services are available to anyone with a severe mental illness who resides in Wayne County or the City of Detroit - more available than they are in some of our rural areas. What the average person does not understand is that it is very difficulty to force someone to accept treatment for mental illnesses, and that it is actually more common for someone with mental illness to be a victim than a perpetrator in violent confrontations. Regardless of how the rest of us believe others "should" live or behave, people have a right to refuse treatment and/or to remain homeless, etc., unless we can prove they are an immediate and serious threat to themselves and others, and then it is only a short in-patient stay. If there is a gap in services, it is in the lack of funding to provide longer hospital stays, but even if the funding is there, you cannot hold someone involuntarily for very long if they do not want to be there and you can't demonstrate that serious and imminent threat. I'm not saying it should be easier to force treatment, nor that it should be this difficult - just trying to illuminate some of the issues in treatment. In the public [[Medicaid or uninsured) sector, we do truly have some effective and even world-class services available if people choose to participate.

[stasu1213]

The news had always put a "mentally ill" label on a person who commit a crime on impulse alone. I don't know what had happened in this case. It was tragic to what had happened to the Johnson family and the family of the deceased assailant. The media still haven't released the shooter's name. Who was the 60 year old man that was shot and what relations did he have with the shooter?

[Gannon]

I believe he was the shooter's father.

From all accounts in this story, the fellow and his family have a history of troubles...it is not merely the convenience of news story framing.

[firstandten]

The news had always put a "mentally ill" label on a person who commit a crime on impulse alone. I don't know what had happened in this case. It was tragic to what had happened to the Johnson family and the family of the deceased assailant. The media still haven't released the shooter's name. Who was the 60 year old man that was shot and what relations did he have with the shooter?

I suspect you would be quite shocked if you knew how much crime was committed by people who have serious mental health issues. When someone is detached from reality because of schizophrenia or other kinds of mental illness, it doesn't make a difference whether you live in the best or worst area in Detroit. Probably the determining factor is the access to and quality of mental health care in the area you live.

The 60 year old was the assailant's father according to what I heard.

My condolences to the familes that were impacted by this event.

[English]

I suspect you would be quite shocked if you knew how much crime was committed by people who have serious mental health issues. When someone is detached from reality because of schizophrenia or other kinds of mental illness, it doesn't make a difference whether you live in the best or worst area in Detroit. Probably the determining factor is the access to and quality of mental health care in the area you live.

Good points. I was too young to follow this when it was happening, but I wonder why we chose to close down many of the residential mental health care facilities during the Engler administration? What were the arguments for doing so back then? I feel that some of Detroit's crime numbers, along with the numbers of people roaming the streets with nowhere to go, are directly correlated to the lack of access to long-term mental care.

Given what we are dealing with now, I can't see how the money that we've saved as taxpayers has been worth the cost we've paid as a society.

[stasu1213]

Good points. I was too young to follow this when it was happening, but I wonder why we chose to close down many of the residential mental health care facilities during the Engler administration? What were the arguments for doing so back then? I feel that some of Detroit's crime numbers, along with the numbers of people roaming the streets with nowhere to go, are directly correlated to the lack of access to long-term mental care.

Given what we are dealing with now, I can't see how the money that we've saved as taxpayers has been worth the cost we've paid as a society.

Granholm didn't reopen the facilities when she had first took office.I was hoping that she would. No political leaders care about the mentally ill or their well being. There are no former patients roaming the streets of Lansing