Extending unemployment benefits

[467riverfix]

Much ado over recalcitrance by some US legislators to extend unemployment benefits. My understanding is that the US is the most generous in this regard than any other Western nation. In Canada - long considered a social welfare beacon by US liberals - there is one-time collection of unemployment benefits [[usually less than a year) - and that's it!

[Danny]

The Republicans are going to say 'HELL NO! We're are not feeding the poor anymore. The poor are going to find some way to find work.'

[Lowell]

In Canada - long considered a social welfare beacon by US liberals - there is one-time collection of unemployment benefits [[usually less than a year) - and that's it!

At least in Canada, you do not lose your health insurance coverage when you unfortunate enough to be laid off.

If the cut off is carried out, it will be a disaster for tens of thousands in metro Detroit and Michigan. Social services, emergency rooms and other last resort destinations, already overloaded, will be under even more pressure. Foreclosure and crime rates can expect a bump too.

[bailey]

At least in Canada, you do not lose your health insurance coverage when you unfortunate enough to be laid off.

If the cut off is carried out, it will be a disaster for tens of thousands in metro Detroit and Michigan. Social services, emergency rooms and other last resort destinations, already overloaded, will be under even more pressure. Foreclosure and crime rates can expect a bump too.

Its quite a dilemma though. How long are we going to keep paying unemployment benefits to someone who's job is never coming back? Especially in Michigan. Is the continued extension just delaying the inevitable?

[oldredfordette]

The original post was worded in a very interesting way. "Recalcitrance by some US legislators", hmmm I wonder what side you're on.

[1KielsonDrive]

The original post was worded in a very interesting way. "Recalcitrance by some US legislators", hmmm I wonder what side you're on.

Uh, huh. Wording is revealing. I often wonder why we're not asking how long we'll be extending tax cuts and breaks for the rich, - military and economic aid to countries like Israel and Pakistan, subsidies to companies off-shoring their manufacturing, employees and HR, while reaping huge profits and paying thousands of lobbyists, not to mention a zillion other excuses for not taking care of our own. Patriotism doesn't just mean fighting in and supporting the military, waving flags and spouting nationalistic phrases, it means taking care of your fellow citizens - even the ones you don't always agree with. If I'm correct most of those conservatives and liberals who are unemployed without medical coverage, are the same people who worked for 35 years, paid taxes and supported our system. I haven't seen too many of them taking home bonuses the last few years, the least of which could be a few months unemployment compensation.

[Corn.Bot]

My husband's $35/hr job went overseas in early 2003. In the years since then, he has yet to find a job paying half that wage; I think the most per hour he's earned was $12.75. That job went away, too; as did the $11.50/hr and $10/hr jobs. None of them offered benefits aside from the wage [[whereas the $35/hr position had benefits, retirement, paid vacation and sick time).

After 9+ months of being unemployed in 2010, meantime doing all the 'right' things to chase down job leads and interviews, he's working again, now earning $9.50/hr for 24 to 48 hours per week depending on how many days they schedule him. He claims unemployment when he does not get 40 hours/week, and by golly, he gets a small UIA check about every other week. IMO he's earned it, working as long and hard as he does for such minimal pay.

Not much farther to fall in the way of income for him. I hope against hope for another unemployment extension because it is still helping us make ends meet. When someone with a 30-year career in a field that went offshore, and now almost a decade of manufacturing experience, has to work for just over minimum wage and still try to cover everyday expenses... I don't know what else he can do. What else WE can do.

Costs sure aren't going down the way pay seems to keep going. It may not be up to the government to continue helping, but businesses and banks have made no modifications that even so much as acknowledge the demographic that includes my husband [[and by association, me).

[trotwood]

My husband's $35/hr job went overseas in early 2003. In the years since then, he has yet to find a job paying half that wage; I think the most per hour he's earned was $12.75. That job went away, too; as did the $11.50/hr and $10/hr jobs. None of them offered benefits aside from the wage [[whereas the $35/hr position had benefits, retirement, paid vacation and sick time).

After 9+ months of being unemployed in 2010, meantime doing all the 'right' things to chase down job leads and interviews, he's working again, now earning $9.50/hr for 24 to 48 hours per week depending on how many days they schedule him. He claims unemployment when he does not get 40 hours/week, and by golly, he gets a small UIA check about every other week. IMO he's earned it, working as long and hard as he does for such minimal pay.

Not much farther to fall in the way of income for him. I hope against hope for another unemployment extension because it is still helping us make ends meet. When someone with a 30-year career in a field that went offshore, and now almost a decade of manufacturing experience, has to work for just over minimum wage and still try to cover everyday expenses... I don't know what else he can do. What else WE can do.

Costs sure aren't going down the way pay seems to keep going. It may not be up to the government to continue helping, but businesses and banks have made no modifications that even so much as acknowledge the demographic that includes my husband [[and by association, me).

Corn.Bot,for whatever it's worth, bless you&your husband! I know that doesn't help with bills and expenses but your post sounds very sincere and touching to me. You two hang in there&things will work out just fine in the end! This won't last forever.

[Novine]

Keeping people on UI provides a safety net for all of us. It helps keeps homes out of foreclosure, people out of the emergency rooms and money going into the economy. Without UI, we'll all take a bigger hit as those people lose their homes, lost their health insurance and stop spending and start relying on food assistance. It's a much better use of tax dollars than giving tax breaks to gazillionaires and other schemes promoted as being boosters for the economy.

[justanotherboy]

Danny - How long should taxpayers pay someone not to work? At what point would you cut off unemployment benefits? How many YEARS do you propose we pay benefits out?

[Wingnatic]

How long should the taxpayers elect and pay politicians in Washington to sit on their hands while jobs leave the U.S. ? We have an incredible unfair trade balance
with alot of countries , but because we want to be buddies with as many countries as we can [[ for strategic purposes ) our Government is doing little to address the problem , the real problem . I'm not letting the auto industry off the hook , they shot themselves in the foot , but their not the only industry shipping jobs elsewhere . If you look at some of the conditions of say China , a certain % of the components of anything thats produced in their country , must be made at home .
We don't need laws like that do we ? It really doesn't matter when the U.S. lets nations flood our markets un -impeded , while limiting what we can put in their market [[jobs loss) They could care less about our economy .

[Mikeg]

The real question is how much longer are we going to continue borrowing money to pay for unemployment benefit extensions? The adjective "unsustainable" can be applied to more than just the noun "suburbs".

Much of the "recalcitrance" has been because of a lack of spending offsets in previous bills to extend unemployment benefits and therefore the entire cost would have been added to the federal deficit.

[Novine]

We financed two wars and the rebuilding of Iraq for almost a decade using that method. Conservatives don't mind funding wars using debt but don't want to see a dime spent on helping out American workers. That tells you everything you need to know about their priorities.

[bailey]

We financed two wars and the rebuilding of Iraq for almost a decade using that method. Conservatives don't mind funding wars using debt but don't want to see a dime spent on helping out American workers. That tells you everything you need to know about their priorities.

...don't forget the unfunded "bush" tax breaks that republicans are demanding we keep.

[Mikeg]

We financed two wars and the rebuilding of Iraq for almost a decade using that method. Conservatives don't mind funding wars using debt but don't want to see a dime spent on helping out American workers. That tells you everything you need to know about their priorities.

Spare us that threadbare rhetoric - it's so pre-Nov. 2nd. The situation we face today is that we've borrowed nearly a trillion dollars to finance ARRA and it's lack of stimulative effect has been woefully obvious to all but the most partisan among us. Unemployment insurance recipient spending is a hell of a lot more stimulative to the economy than anything that's come out of ARRA. I hope that the lame duck Congress can agree to use the remaining uncommitted ARRA funds to finance the UI extension and/or find other spending offsets to fund it.

[hamtown mike]

...We have an incredible unfair trade balance...

And we have an amazing unfair wage balance as well. Welcome to globalization. There will always be somebody ready and willing to do it cheaper and faster. And blaming politicians is a joke. If politicians "protected our wages" nobody outside of the US could afford what we made

Unless you work in an industry directly tied to shoving another partially hydrogenated snack product down America's gaping consumer-based food hole, start saving or learn a concrete skill.

Let's be honest. Does barely graduating high school and turning bolts equal a place up north, a jet ski and two snowmobiles? At one time it did. God bless those who secured those contracts. I'd take it if it were offered. But things have changed.

Quit buying crap! The next time you're at the gas station maybe take a pass on the plastic made in china rose. And do you really need the 30 second egg poacher? What's wrong with a pot of water and a bit of patience?

Our priorities have been out of whack for so damn long and now they're coming back to haunt us.

[Novine]

"The situation we face today is that we've borrowed nearly a trillion dollars to finance ARRA and it's lack of stimulative effect has been woefully obvious to all but the most partisan among us."

If you're going to throw around numbers and claims, back them up with some facts. Which part wasn't stimulative? Most of the biggest chunks of the ARRA money went for tax breaks for individuals and businesses. If you're telling me that tax breaks don't stimulate the economy, you'll have no problem with the Bush tax cuts expiring? Another significant chunk is going for projects that will be constructed by private businesses. A chunk of ARRA went to keep people above water as we had the worst economic downturn in over 70 years. Throw tens of millions of people off UI, cut off their access to medical coverage and take away food assistance and then see how well the economy would have performed. I know it's a conservative dream world but it would have been a nightmare for the average working person.

[kraig]

Danny - How long should taxpayers pay someone not to work? At what point would you cut off unemployment benefits? How many YEARS do you propose we pay benefits out?

Unemployment benefits are not the same as paying someone not to work, it's insurance. As an employer, I've never had a problem with paying the costs and benefits should continue. Especially when it's taken into consideration that those willing to vote against the continuation of benefits will receive pensions for working their jobs for a small fraction of the time that the average person has to.

[R8RBOB]

Danny - How long should taxpayers pay someone not to work? At what point would you cut off unemployment benefits? How many YEARS do you propose we pay benefits out?

justanotherboy, here are two sets of numbers for you

1,114,000,000,000 and rising [[the cost of both wars since 2001)

319,000,000,000 and rising [[the cost of extending unemployment since 2006)

If you do the math, for every year the United States have been at war, the tax payers have footed over 123 billion dollars a year to fund the wars. I don't recall the government sending a check for killing terrorists.

As for unemployment, for the last three years the tax payers have footed over 106 billion dollars a year to provide additional unemployment benefits to the states. These checks are helping those who have worked in this country who lost their job through no fault of theirs. Keeping them afloat during the worst of times.

Before you go on the "us paying your way" kick ask yourself this question. Which one of the numbers I posted makes your blood boil?

[littlebuddy]

Does your husband have any skills or was the $35 and hour just for factory work/no skills. What skills has your husband aquired in 7 years? What skills did you husband aquire when he was working or was it just easier to live and not worry about tomorrow? Have you downsized, sold things,etc or should we just pay your way till you die? Why do you think you deserve for us to pay your way. Life isn't fair, get used to it and make changes. What happens when this extension is over, ask for more?

[Corn.Bot]

[quote=littlebuddy;202069]Does your husband have any skills or was the $35 and hour just for factory work/no skills. What skills has your husband aquired in 7 years? What skills did you husband aquire when he was working or was it just easier to live and not worry about tomorrow?You're pretty sure we're that stereotype, aren't you? You automatically think he's sat on his butt with no skills and no intent of moving forward, and you are wrong. He was a senior-level systems programmer for a bank that outsourced their data processing. He trained the staff in Bangalore that ultimately replaced him. He was told that group would be assisting his department. He and 96 of his closest friends blissfully believed that fairy tale until the day they were given pink slips and a pat on the ass as they were shown the door.

Since then, he got certified in plastics fabrication; gained experience in robotics programming and maintenance; and most recently has done pre- and post-production quality assurance. He was not invited to move to Mexico with the plastics and the 'bots. His present QA position is quite literally a moving target.

Have you downsized, sold things,etc or should we just pay your way till you die? We did not need to downsize, as our residence is modest in an average neighborhood. We refinanced early in the millennium to cover some home improvements [[house is 160 years old), but a payment that was easily affordable in 2002 as 20% of our monthly income became 50% of our total monthly take-home. We've never made a late payment, by the way.

Oh, but we must be laden with consumer debt, right? Wrong again. We have one credit card with a balance of a couple-hundred dollars, and one car payment; and you can bet we purchased wisely. [[Our second car is 7 years old, which BTW it is a KIA Rio with 120,000 miles on it that has never once needed work aside from basic maintenance and still gets 35+ mpg.) Our only other expenses are utilities and car insurance. We have internet and basic cable, but no cell phones. Do we have savings? Not much anymore, since we occasionally nickel-and-dime it for unexpected expenses. Yes, we still have a child at home - a teenager who outgrows shoes with alarming frequency.

Why do you think you deserve for us to pay your way. Life isn't fair, get used to it and make changes. My husband was gainfully employed full time from 1976 until the last couple of years. His work history, education, skill set, multiple levels of experiences, and loyal reliability mean absolutely nothing to anyone in today's job market. I agree life is not fair, no one owes him any favors, but really, what is an under-employed white male in his middle 50s worth in today's economy? Qualities that used to carry metaphorical positive weight are now a metaphysical millstone. His past contributions might as well be vapor. Do you think he wants to work for $9.50/hour?

We're already planning on never retiring. What other changes might you suggest?

What happens when this extension is over, ask for more? My husband has never shied away from responsibility nor looked for a handout. Even though he worked decades [[during which each & every one of his employers paid into the fund) before ever collecting a dime of unemployment, none of that work history is ever considered; only his most recent position is. I am not wise to the ins and outs of the system, but I can't help but find this ludicrous.

I did not put forth this info to garner your sympathy. I share it to offer some insight and spark some understanding that some of us are [[still) trying to do things "right" in spite of being kicked to the curb for the effort.

[Gistok]

Does your husband have any skills or was the $35 and hour just for factory work/no skills. What skills has your husband aquired in 7 years? What skills did you husband aquire when he was working or was it just easier to live and not worry about tomorrow? Have you downsized, sold things,etc or should we just pay your way till you die? Why do you think you deserve for us to pay your way. Life isn't fair, get used to it and make changes. What happens when this extension is over, ask for more?

Anyone with half a brain would have waited for a reply for the first question before going off the deep end assuming that Corn.bot's husband was a "lazy factory worker"... but no not our own misfit "littlebuddy"... who has all the empathy of a gnat.... uses a slippery slope [[should we pay you til you die) fallacy... and all the talking points of a Hannity/Beck/Limbaugh lemming....

Some folks on this forum truly are representative of the "Tea Party"....

How are those property values doin' there "lil' buddy??

[Det_ard]

There's a subset of people on unemployment who are working for cash while they collect benefits. Drywallers, painters, office helpers, I've met quite a few.

And another group who are OK with being unemployed because their spouse works and makes enough money, enabling the unemployed one to do their non-working thing while getting their weekly benefit as a supplement to the family income.

These folks are taking advantage of a system intended to help those truly out of work, but the system isn't doing anything to screen the scammers out. Maybe a three or four month stoppage of benefits for those who've been on it for two years would help weed some out.

[justanotherboy]

"Unemployment benefits are not the same as paying someone not to work, it's insurance."

You are correct for the first 26 weeks. Unemployment insurance is a federal-state program jointly financed through federal and state employer payroll taxes [[federal and state UI taxes). However, the repeated extensions of unemployment insurance benefits beyond the 26 weeks and now currently into the multiple years are not insurance by any stretch of the imagination. Those benefits are now a tax payer funded [[not employer) social program that pays people not to work. Enough is enough. It is time for them to end.

[justanotherboy]

In addition to providing you with lifetime unemployment benefits with our hard earned tax dollars, we can now pay for your children's health care insurance too since labor unions don't do that anymore. Anything else you want me to pay for your family when I am at it?

One of the largest union-administered health-insurance funds in New York [SEIU] is dropping coverage for the children of more than 30,000 low-wage home attendants, union officials said. The union blamed financial problems it said were caused by the state’s health department and new national health-insurance requirements.

http://www.newmediajournal.us/fifth_column/1129.htm