Thank you Wikileaks

[rb336]

you don't hold the final definition of a Patriot or what Patriotism is. Patriotism isn't defined by one person or group of people, whether they've served or not.

I though Samuel Johnson did back in 1775 "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel"

This was a reference to the "patriotism" as defined by that era's right-wing thugs - led by the Third Earl of Bute. They were that era's version of "lapel pin patriots" who think it is more important to protect the flag than the principles for which that flag stands - in other words, they were patriots to the very narrow vision of what a small group thought the country SHOULD be.

[maxx]

PS: This was such an odd comment. Why am I supposed to be fearing my government? Did you really forward my comments to the authorities? What a piece of work you are.

There's yer problem right there. Bush's Dept. of Homeland Sec. has been so busy reading our emails, they haven't bothered to tighten up document security.

[maxx]

I know what I have done for my country and all of you out there. I have my opinion as to what it is and you have yours....And its because of men like me that you have that right.

If you fought in Bush's Iraq war, you weren't defending anything except your own skin. Iraq was no immediate threat to us. Bush sent the Nat. Guard into a shooting gallery in Iraq without even body armour. That war disgusts me, and the private armies like Blackwater and Custer Battles disgust me. If Bush had really believed that war was necessary, he should have reinstated the draft. But he knew that it would not be politically safe to do that. Better to keep it "small" in terms of military lives lost while Halliburton made its millions.

[Searay215]

If you fought in Bush's Iraq war, you weren't defending anything except your own skin. Iraq was no immediate threat to us. Bush sent the Nat. Guard into a shooting gallery in Iraq without even body armour. That war disgusts me, and the private armies like Blackwater and Custer Battles disgust me. If Bush had really believed that war was necessary, he should have reinstated the draft. But he knew that it would not be politically safe to do that. Better to keep it "small" in terms of military lives lost while Halliburton made its millions.

This coming from someone who has Never done anything for his country. I resent you blasting ANY VET for any reason, are you one of those haters that go to soldiers funerals and yells hate messages? I bet you are....you coward, you disgust me, yes they should have never stopped the draft and then maybe people like you would do something for your country instead of sitting on your ass drinking beer and blaming everyone for everything.
As a vet we do what we are told to do and go where our comander in chief tells us to go for and to defend. We do this for our country!!!!
No I am a Vietnam vet.....and yes that war was not popular either....but we do as our govenment has asked us to.
If not for Vets you would be speaking German or Japanese.....
So shut your mouth about Vets!!! The sad part is we do and defend so jerks like you can have a right to free speach even if we disagree.

[DetroitDad]

Okay Searay215, I do respect your service and your views. You are right about several points. That being said, I would like to point out that WikiLeaks officials approached several governing bodies before the cablegate release. All of the governments supposedly ignored requests to review the leaks and in an attempt to prepare and possibly edit out some basic trivial [[to the story) details. The governments, including ours, didn't decline, they chose to act like they didn't even exist.

This coming from someone who has Never done anything for his country. I resent you blasting ANY VET for any reason, are you one of those haters that go to soldiers funerals and yells hate messages? I bet you are....you coward, you disgust me, yes they should have never stopped the draft and then maybe people like you would do something for your country instead of sitting on your ass drinking beer and blaming everyone for everything.
As a vet we do what we are told to do and go where our comander in chief tells us to go for and to defend. We do this for our country!!!!
No I am a Vietnam vet.....and yes that war was not popular either....but we do as our govenment has asked us to.
If not for Vets you would be speaking German or Japanese.....
So shut your mouth about Vets!!! The sad part is we do and defend so jerks like you can have a right to free speach even if we disagree.

[DetroitDad]

Where can I join a upcoming peaceful protest?

Ah yes... the pen is mighter than the sword. How true this statement is today. We have the entire American diplomatic corps running around in sheer panic today because of one mans actions.
Peaceful, non-violent protest is the way to expose corruption and crimes in governments.

Take your time people, examine all these documents, think about the wasted tax dollars we have spent only in the last 4 years supporting idiots of the world.

You want to know why cities like Detroit are a mess? Read these documents, fine wines, whores, houses and money to dictators like Qaddafi, King Abdullah, and Abbass. The Israelis also take part in plundering the American tax payer too.

How can you as Joe citizen stop this mess?

Easy, vote NO on ANY tax millage.

[Ravine]

If you fought in Bush's Iraq war, you weren't defending anything except your own skin. Iraq was no immediate threat to us. Bush sent the Nat. Guard into a shooting gallery in Iraq without even body armour. That war disgusts me, and the private armies like Blackwater and Custer Battles disgust me. If Bush had really believed that war was necessary, he should have reinstated the draft. But he knew that it would not be politically safe to do that. Better to keep it "small" in terms of military lives lost while Halliburton made its millions.

I understand your over-all point, and I generally agree with it, but the way you phrased that opening sentence is way over-the-top.
Surely, in retrospect, you can see how that would be offensive to just about any veteran.

[Meddle]

I don't. Vets of the Bush II fiasco should agree it's all been a waste. It has served no purpose at all and it has served nothing but Bush's ego.

Iraq I had a purpose; to liberate an occupied country.
Iraq II had [[has) no purpose and made us the occupiers instead of the liberators.

[Ravine]

Yeah, I think I was reacting to the way it sounded. I think I inferred something, from the tone. I would delete my post, but too many deletions lead to threads that make no goddam sense, which brings me right around to saying...
Certainly, I agree that "Iraq II" has been a big mess that had plenty to do with the U.S. protecting things other than its own safety.

[Lowell]

If you fought in Bush's Iraq war, you weren't defending anything except your own skin. Iraq was no immediate threat to us. Bush sent the Nat. Guard into a shooting gallery in Iraq without even body armour. That war disgusts me, and the private armies like Blackwater and Custer Battles disgust me. If Bush had really believed that war was necessary, he should have reinstated the draft. But he knew that it would not be politically safe to do that. Better to keep it "small" in terms of military lives lost while Halliburton made its millions.

Maxx, while I agree with your assessment of the Bush Iraq war, your smear of another person's service is both ignorant [you have no idea of what this person did as followup posts show], uncalled for and insensitive. When one serves his or her country in the military or otherwise, one does not create the policy. One follows orders of his or her superiors and serves his or her country nobly based on that alone, regardless of how flawed the policy may be. To direct your vitriol toward those whose served, instead of those who served up the policy, is unfair and a distraction of attention from the criminals behind the policy.

Searay, no name calling is permitted on this forum, regardless of the circumstances, but you get a pass on this one and no more.

[maxx]

If people didn't join the army when the gov. wages an unjust war, there wouldn't be a war. Not all wars are equally justified. Members of the National Guard who were the first to go to Iraq were treated shabbily by W and Co., and I feel for them.