Luben Apartment building fire

**Patrick** · November-29-10, 02:40 PM

Something smells very, very fishy here.

Maybe they are just clearning land for a new arena? lol

**Detroitnerd** · November-29-10, 02:57 PM

Arson.......

**BrushStart** · November-29-10, 03:09 PM

Something strange happened with this building. Setting it on fire to justify knocking it down is a sure way expedite the demolition process if someone wanted it gone without dealing with the historic preservation push back.

**kahnman** · November-29-10, 03:24 PM

Fnemecek, I was thinking the same thing. Nothing in Detroit moves that fast without special "intervention". It reminds me of the Meigs Field debacle in Chicago.

And once again, "A cloud of dust and debris rose..." photo caption showing the usual disregard for public safety by not using misters on a demolition site. Pathetic.

**Detroitnerd** · November-29-10, 03:29 PM

We had to demolish the building so we could investigate why it burned?

LodgeDodger · November-29-10, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by fnemecek

wtf! Something smells very, very fishy here.

A few questions to ponder.

how the hell do you get a demo crew on site within 12 hours of the fire starting?
while i'm thinking of it, how do you get all of the water and gas lines capped so demolition can safely begin that quickly?
if a fire is being investigated, why in the hell would you demolish the building?

seriously people. It usually takes several days or even a couple of weeks to get a demolition crew and all of that equipment on a job site. 3 - 4 days is generally considered to be "lightning fast".

Getting it there in just over 12 hours from the time the fire started? And doing it on a holiday weekend?

Either jesus christ has started his own demolition company or things were afoot to demolish that building long before the fire started.

As for the rationale given, i've seen several arson investigations - including ones where the structure was damaged to the point of immanent collapse. Investigators usually want to preserve as much of the crime scene, and all of the evidence in it, as they possibly can. Instead, we're seeing the place demolished and all of the evidence go to a landfill.

Something smells very, very fishy here.

+1

. . . . . .

**mcsdetroitfriend** · November-29-10, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by kahnman

Fnemecek, I was thinking the same thing. Nothing in Detroit moves that fast without special "intervention". It reminds me of the Meigs Field debacle in Chicago.

And once again, "A cloud of dust and debris rose..." photo caption showing the usual disregard for public safety by not using misters on a demolition site. Pathetic.

After what I learned last year during the MCS craziness, I've reported this to the MDEQ because according to the law all demolitions or anything that throws dust into the air has to have a mister, I encourage the rest of you guys to go to the MDEQ site and express your concerns

**drjeff** · November-29-10, 05:22 PM

Yet another building destroyed by drug addict bums. There are some real assholes roaming that area, so much so that I stopped parking there for Tigers games after many years of having zero problems. I often parked across John R from the Luben and am sad to see it go.

**Detroitnerd** · November-29-10, 05:32 PM

Must have been some crazy bums to spread accelerant all over the building so it all went up at once like that.

**drjeff** · November-29-10, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Must have been some crazy bums to spread accelerant all over the building so it all went up at once like that.

Conspiracy theory much? What the hell difference would it make whether that building were standing or not? It's not like Brush Park was lacking for open space and they needed that building to come down for some reason.

That said, it could be some idiot who just likes fires. Seem to be a lot of them around.

**Detroitnerd** · November-29-10, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

Conspiracy theory much? What the hell difference would it make whether that building were standing or not? It's not like Brush Park was lacking for open space and they needed that building to come down for some reason.

That said, it could be some idiot who just likes fires. Seem to be a lot of them around.

Did you see the video or any of the pictures? Don't try to conflate this with other issues or change the subject. I heard last night the business associated with the building declared bankruptcy a week before this fire. And it was demo'ed lickety-split. Does that seem odd to you? Sure seems odd to me. And to a lot of other knowledgeable posters. Why the rush to dismiss the possibility?

**cman710** · November-29-10, 05:58 PM

Perhaps the building was secured again later, but as of last April when I drove down that block, the front was wide open. Pardon the image quality, as I reduced it to make it easier to download.

Attachment 7899

**BrushStart** · November-29-10, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

Conspiracy theory much? What the hell difference would it make whether that building were standing or not? It's not like Brush Park was lacking for open space and they needed that building to come down for some reason.

That said, it could be some idiot who just likes fires. Seem to be a lot of them around.

Haven't you seen Detroit 187?

It seems possible that the fire was a ruse to clear the building quickly for a new development. It's also possible that it was burnt down to collect an insurance payout from the owner, like Detroitnerd seems to be suggesting.

**Zacha341** · November-29-10, 06:08 PM

LOL! Some of that had me cracking up! And I agree!! Something stanks!

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

WTF! Something smells very, very fishy here.

....Seriously people. It usually takes several days or even a couple of weeks to get a demolition crew and all of that equipment on a job site. 3 - 4 days is generally considered to be "lightning fast".

Getting it there in just over 12 hours from the time the fire started? And doing it on a holiday weekend?

Either Jesus Christ has started His own demolition company or things were afoot to demolish that building long before the fire started.

As for the rationale given, I've seen several arson investigations - including ones where the structure was damaged to the point of immanent collapse. Investigators usually want to preserve as much of the crime scene, and all of the evidence in it, as they possibly can. Instead, we're seeing the place demolished and all of the evidence go to a landfill.

Something smells very, very fishy here.

**DetroitZack** · November-29-10, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by ScienceFair

Wolverine, do you live in Brush Park? If you did, you would know that the residents do take care of the vacant lots and structures in the neighborhood. Picking up trash, landscaping and trying to keep vacant structures sealed. This building had been sealed up until a few months ago. This is a terrible loss for the neighborhood and I find it in poor taste to criticize the residents of Brush Park for being upset about it.

I'm sure the walls of your living room are lined with "World's Best Neighbor" awards from all of your philanthropy over the years. Maybe you could help our neighborhood by holding a seminar, teaching us indigent city folk about how to best care for our aging buildings? Please let me know a date that would work for you and we will gladly set something up.

I'm not sure what your definition of sealed up is but look at cman's picture, it was wide open in April. I also know it was open last December when I went in to take pictures...

**RickBeall** · November-29-10, 06:29 PM

It was wide open 16 years ago when I used to take pictures. Pffffft. There used to be an old folks home across the street from it back then.

**ScienceFair** · November-29-10, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitZack

I'm not sure what your definition of sealed up is but look at cman's picture, it was wide open in April. I also know it was open last December when I went in to take pictures...

See the large pieces of plywood lying in the foreground of the picture. It's hard to keep buildings sealed up for long.

**mauser** · November-29-10, 07:17 PM

Here are photos from today at around 2pm.

http://www.detroitfunk.com/?p=4947

They demolished the facade - which was not on fire, and left the rear portion - which is shown in these photos still burning.

There is a photo of the demo company arriving at about 10:45am on Sunday.

My friend Di said that her video clip was shot at the END of the fire, and that it had been burning a full two hours before that. She said they never heard a single siren or horn - they saw the light.

The wind was blowing away from John R. and toward Brush. There was scorched tar and ashy soot across the grass all the way to the Prince Hall building.

If you look at the photo in this post:
http://www.detroitfunk.com/?p=1878

You will see that going through the building on the first level and the basement level - there is plenty of fuel there. All plaster walls with the wood slats, wood floors, wood planks...

But the video looks amazing...the fire is evenly distributed front to back and is burning like a gas main was opened. It would certainly be a candidate for an arson investigation in my mind.

I walked the full perimeter of the building right after the DFD left, and I stuck my camera in several windows. I never smelled anything that would suggest arson - like gasoline or a solvent smell.

**wolverine** · November-29-10, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by ScienceFair

See the large pieces of plywood lying in the foreground of the picture. It's hard to keep buildings sealed up for long.

But it can certainly sealed correctly, and hold up for a very long time.

**mauser** · November-29-10, 07:33 PM

Here are three views of the facade before demolition - from behind..:
http://www.detroitfunk.com/images/DSC_3385.jpg
http://www.detroitfunk.com/images/DSC_3387.jpg
http://www.detroitfunk.com/images/DSC_3397.jpg

I shot those blind by sticking the camera in the window, not by going in the thing.

**Fnemecek** · November-30-10, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by mauser

I walked the full perimeter of the building right after the DFD left, and I stuck my camera in several windows. I never smelled anything that would suggest arson - like gasoline or a solvent smell.

That doesn't mean anything.

When a building is torched, almost all of the accelerant is burned away. Generally speaking, the residue that's left cannot be smelled by a human. This is why arson investigators use a specially trained dog to search for that residue.

Of course, they can't do that once everything is in landfill.

**Fnemecek** · November-30-10, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by drjeff

Yet another building destroyed by drug addict bums. There are some real assholes roaming that area, so much so that I stopped parking there for Tigers games after many years of having zero problems. I often parked across John R from the Luben and am sad to see it go.

How many "drug addict bums" have the ability to get a demolition crew on site within hours of the fire starting?

**Planner3357** · November-30-10, 10:37 AM

Look...I'm not into tearing down our history, but this building was sitting and sitting....and it would have continued to sit...and rot...and become a real hazard. I drive through Brush Park often on my way home from work...there are still many great structures to be saved.
So while sad..if it was such a "gem", why didn't someone try to save it and rehab it earlier?

**leland_palmer** · November-30-10, 11:05 AM

I had a chance to walk around the site yesterday. The back of the building was still smoldering. This is what is left. Faded Detroit

**Fnemecek** · November-30-10, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Planner3357

Look...I'm not into tearing down our history, but this building was sitting and sitting....and it would have continued to sit...and rot...and become a real hazard. I drive through Brush Park often on my way home from work...there are still many great structures to be saved.
So while sad..if it was such a "gem", why didn't someone try to save it and rehab it earlier?

#1. How long a building sits vacant, in and of itself, isn't the issue. The Book-Cadillac Hotel, for example, sat vacant for more than 20 years. I invite you to walk through the place today and argue that it should have been torn down.

#2. Even if a building does have to come down, there is still a right way and a wrong way to do it. Torching a building in the middle of the night falls into the "wrong way" category. City officials collaborating with such an act makes it even worse.