You know what downtown needs...

[BrushStart]

a coffee shop with couches and tables and a laid back atmosphere where I can walk down and do some work, read a book, and hang out with people from the neighborhood.

[Stosh]

a coffee shop with couches and tables and a laid back atmosphere where I can walk down and do some work, read a book, and hang out with people from the neighborhood.

You first! I'd like you to make that a priority in your master plan for Detroit. I'm sure that banks would be streaming in to give you capital.

Isn't that what is usually called a living room ? Or an office? I can't imagine having people hang out all day sipping on one coffee would be profitable.

[wolverine]

You first! I'd like you to make that a priority in your master plan for Detroit. I'm sure that banks would be streaming in to give you capital.

Isn't that what is usually called a living room ? Or an office? I can't imagine having people hang out all day sipping on one coffee would be profitable.

You are being totally facetious right, as what you "can't imagine" exists in tens of thousands of cities across America. From big city neighborhoods to many Michigan towns, they are establishments that

1. Occupy commercial space in older buildings [[for character)
2. Often times used older furniture
3. Have daily live bands playing
4. Offer 50-75 cent refills on coffee
5. Have free wi-fi internet
6 Sometimes have a stash of interesting books to read.

7. And don't forget, been in business for years.

What was thought to be cool and ironic, is now pretty common place. The concept is being copied everywhere because it works.

As for the homeless situation, how is this a problem? You might have 10-15 homeless come in a day for a free cup. That's about 1 large pot of maybe your cheapest coffee served in your cheapest Styrofoam cups. All loss of $3/day. Write it off as a donation. Don't even bother to try and figure out a solution to this problem. It's commonplace where I live. The second they begin to bother other patrons or lay down on one of the couches for a 3 hour nap, Starbucks, Argo, Caribou, Seattle's, Intelligentsia, Lavazza, and many others will handle it.

Ask yourself why it went out of business, and address that, you may have a concept.

If it were my business, I would charge a cover charge just to get in the door, so the homeless situation is taken care of. Either that or minimum purchases per hour to discourage the Detroit is Cheap crowd. And if it were up to me, the coffee would have a low price component for the regular coffee drinker

Unfortunately, stosh your business wouldn't last a week. People won't pay cover, because the concept you've declared unworkable already exists everywhere. $3-4 for your first cup, and 50 cents for refills. People won't pay the cover, they'll walk down the street to Starbucks or some independently owned coffee house.

Your cover charge won't help either. Actually it risks increasing the number of homeless patrons in your business. Your cover will have to be cheap. I mean who would pay $5 to enter a coffee house? Say you set it at $1-2. Homeless person pays the cover and their time spent in your place is now totally justified. They'll stay as long as they want and of course will put up a fight to leave since they paid your cover. Why will this happen? Same reason homeless fork over $2.50 to ride the subway all night. They'll do anything for at least an extended stay in someplace warm.


-----

The concept is more appropriate for midtown Detroit. These type of places work best where customers have time to come in and linger, like students and residents. Downtown still seems to cater to the daily worker as opposed to residents

[Stosh]

You are being totally facetious right, as what you "can't imagine" exists in tens of thousands of cities across America. From big city neighborhoods to many Michigan towns, they are establishments that

1. Occupy commercial space in older buildings [[for character)
2. Often times used older furniture
3. Have daily live bands playing
4. Offer 50-75 cent refills on coffee
5. Have free wi-fi internet
6 Sometimes have a stash of interesting books to read.

7. And don't forget, been in business for years.

What was thought to be cool and ironic, is now pretty common place. The concept is being copied everywhere because it works.

As for the homeless situation, how is this a problem? You might have 10-15 homeless come in a day for a free cup. That's about 1 large pot of maybe your cheapest coffee served in your cheapest Styrofoam cups. All loss of $3/day. Write it off as a donation. Don't even bother to try and figure out a solution to this problem. It's commonplace where I live. The second they begin to bother other patrons or lay down on one of the couches for a 3 hour nap, Starbucks, Argo, Caribou, Seattle's, Intelligentsia, Lavazza, and many others will handle it.

Let's see, where to start....
1) Older buildings with affordable rents, that offer the lessee something for their money?
2) Older Furniture.... Ever hear of bedbugs?
3) Look at the Metro Times for bands. Lots of bars, little coffee shops. Why? You usually have to PAY them. At least the ones that are worth listening to, anyway.
4) Coffee, only?
5) Wi fi is dead as of this year coming anyway. Watch and see.
6) So does the public library.
7) Well, you don't have to worry about this one...

Once again, why is it that the "cool" coffee houses in DD have a problem staying open? I hear lots of BS commentary, but no concrete answers.

Unfortunately, stosh your business wouldn't last a week. People won't pay cover, because the concept you've declared unworkable already exists everywhere. $3-4 for your first cup, and 50 cents for refills. People won't pay the cover, they'll walk down the street to Starbucks or some independently owned coffee house.

For that price, you are paying a cover charge, but you just don't realize it.

Your cover charge won't help either. Actually it risks increasing the number of homeless patrons in your business. Your cover will have to be cheap. I mean who would pay $5 to enter a coffee house? Say you set it at $1-2. Homeless person pays the cover and their time spent in your place is now totally justified. They'll stay as long as they want and of course will put up a fight to leave since they paid your cover. Why will this happen? Same reason homeless fork over $2.50 to ride the subway all night. They'll do anything for at least an extended stay in someplace warm.

I suppose then that a purchase is ALSO required. As stated above, with mimimum time between purchases.
-----

The concept is more appropriate for midtown Detroit. These type of places work best where customers have time to come in and linger, like students and residents. Downtown still seems to cater to the daily worker as opposed to residents

Just like everything that works, you need people to make it happen. Of course, there's only so many retail spots in midtown.

[wolverine]

Let's see, where to start....
1) Older buildings with affordable rents, that offer the lessee something for their money?

Certainly you can rent for any price in Detroit.....I mean, look about. Even if you couldn't afford the rent, so many of your previous come and gone businesses were incredibly subsidized. Free rent for business?

2) Older Furniture.... Ever hear of bedbugs?

There is also such thing as couches without bedbugs. They certainly exist.

3) Look at the Metro Times for bands. Lots of bars, little coffee shops. Why? You usually have to PAY them. At least the ones that are worth listening to, anyway.

If I was going to see a good band, yes I'd probably pay to see them at a bar or concert venue. Coffee shops sometimes have live music to add to the experience. It's the same gimmick potbelly uses. Always on the sign "Free live music."

4) Coffee, only?

It depends. Any basic or flavored coffees, like 99.9999%, of the restaurants or coffee shops out there will offer free or reduced price refills. Some of the more custom drinks require refills at full price.

5) Wi fi is dead as of this year coming anyway. Watch and see.

Cool. People will still surf the net on whatever network technology is available to them at a coffee shop, even if it's over their own service. It has more to do with getting out of the house and being social.

6) So does the public library.

So does Borders and B&N. Reinforces my above point. People like to get out of their houses or the office, sit in a coffee shop and relax. It's too bad these stores had to add coffee shops and cafes to become more profitable.

Once again, why is it that the "cool" coffee houses in DD have a problem staying open? I hear lots of BS commentary, but no concrete answers.

I already answered it my first post.

For that price, you are paying a cover charge, but you just don't realize it.

That's not a cover charge. They are buying and consuming a product. Yes people realize it. Charging a cover would simply gain your patrons entry to sit down, but not buy anything to drink.

I suppose then that a purchase is ALSO required. As stated above, with mimimum time between purchases.

Minimum time, cover charge, purchase required. Doesn't sound like a friendly place. Yet all the chain and independent coffee houses are doing fine without these.


So the coffee shops I've described exist and they work.

It just amazes me there are folks here that will slam down any idea or suggestion that would make Detroit even a bit more liveable. Yes, it's incredibly hard to start a business. But you have residents. We are talking about coffee shops, not arenas or shopping malls. Key word, "suggestion." No one is forcing anyone to open one of these. At least you have a venue here for residents to speak about what they want.

[Stosh]

Certainly you can rent for any price in Detroit.....I mean, look about. Even if you couldn't afford the rent, so many of your previous come and gone businesses were incredibly subsidized. Free rent for business?

Well, considering the incredible overhead that business in Detroit requires, the slim profit margin a coffee shop as you and others describe doesn't quite cut it. Subsidized business by the city just to take it away again by inspection and various and sundry taxes doesn't make sense.

There is also such thing as couches without bedbugs. They certainly exist.

Certainly, they do. but I can't see encouraging the propagation of them in a public environment. Fabric couches are a great breeding ground for bedbugs. Comfy, yes... but the residuals are a bitch.

If I was going to see a good band, yes I'd probably pay to see them at a bar or concert venue. Coffee shops sometimes have live music to add to the experience. It's the same gimmick potbelly uses. Always on the sign "Free live music."

I've experienced the "free live" phenomena, and found it lacking. The experience leads one to believe that old adage "silence is golden". Most times it's preferable.

It depends. Any basic or flavored coffees, like 99.9999%, of the restaurants or coffee shops out there will offer free or reduced price refills. Some of the more custom drinks require refills at full price.

The whole point I was trying to make is that taking up space in a profit making business should be discouraged. Otherwise the possibilities of this being profitable becomes impossible.

Cool. People will still surf the net on whatever network technology is available to them at a coffee shop, even if it's over their own service. It has more to do with getting out of the house and being social.

Yes, nothing like doing that on someone else's dime. Have people over to your place?

So does Borders and B&N. Reinforces my above point. People like to get out of their houses or the office, sit in a coffee shop and relax. It's too bad these stores had to add coffee shops and cafes to become more profitable.

They do because it draws people in. And they are failing at that as well, in a lot of respects. They thought that the coffee would increase business, it just doesn't translate to that, it seems. The bookstores are failing a lot these days.

I already answered it my previous post.

You didn't as far as I can see. Let me reiterate.

Once again, why is it that the "cool" coffee houses in DD have a problem staying open? I hear lots of BS commentary, but no concrete answers.

That's not a cover charge. They are buying and consuming a product. Yes people realize it. Charging a cover would simply gain your patrons entry to sit down, but not buy anything to drink.Minimum time, cover charge, purchase required. What are you tying to invent here? A failing business concept? Doesn't sound like a friendly place.

Which is why I don't have a business as you would want.

So the coffee shops I've described exist and they work.

Not in Detroit.

[runnerXT]

a simple statement of someone stating what they want for Downtown Detroit:

You know what downtown needs...
a coffee shop with couches and tables and a laid back atmosphere where I can walk down and do some work, read a book, and hang out with people from the neighborhood.

and you flew off the handle with your response:

You first! I'd like you to make that a priority in your master plan for Detroit. I'm sure that banks would be streaming in to give you capital.

Isn't that what is usually called a living room ? Or an office? I can't imagine having people hang out all day sipping on one coffee would be profitable.

you ok there? All the guy did was state want he wanted to see in downtown. The horror!! Why so much anger in you?

[Stosh]

a simple statement of someone stating what they want for Downtown Detroit:



and you flew off the handle with your response:



you ok there? All the guy did was state want he wanted to see in downtown. The horror!! Why so much anger in you?

Anger? Why I could not imagine why you would think that...

[DetroitDad]

Because your name is Stosh? You remind me of a poster that I really miss on here called Livernois Yard... I wonder what ever happened to him, his posting style is almost identical to yours.

Anger? Why I could not imagine why you would think that...

[Stosh]

Because your name is Stosh? You remind me of a poster that I really miss on here called Livernois Yard... I wonder what ever happened to him, his posting style is almost identical to yours.

I wonder what happened to Sean of Detroit as well. And no, I am not LY.
You seem to be getting old, longing for the good old days... funny.

[terryh]

You first! I'd like you to make that a priority in your master plan for Detroit. I'm sure that banks would be streaming in to give you capital.

Isn't that what is usually called a living room ? Or an office? I can't imagine having people hang out all day sipping on one coffee would be profitable.

Actually Stosh, coffee shops tend to have menus that offer soup, sandwhiches and pastries. On the other hand, I can see vagrants-very aggresssive vagrants that is- being a major nuisance in certain parts of the city.

[narnarnar]

a coffee shop with couches and tables and a laid back atmosphere where I can walk down and do some work, read a book, and hang out with people from the neighborhood.

Sounds like Starbucks. [[not that there's anything wrong with that)

[n7hn]

sounds like an episode of "FRIEND'S"...... I hope it's that easy.

[DC48080]

Sounds like a hipsters doofuss's nirvana.

[Hermod]

Truly amazing how the denizens of Detroit Yes have so many ideas on how to spend other people's money.

[DC48080]

Truly amazing how the denizens of Detroit Yes have so many ideas on how to spend other people's money.

Exactly. If someone thinks it is such a great idea then he or she should create a business plan and raise the necessary capital to start such a venture.

Oops, I forgot, that would be too much work and would take away from whiling the workday away at the coffee shop posting on Detroit Yes and coming up with inane ideas about what would make Detroit all neato and swell.

[Lt. Dan Bassett]

get 'er done this winter and Detroit's homeless will thank you for a warm place to park their cold-in-the-D butts.

[iheartthed]

Sounds like half the establishments in Park Slope, Brooklyn.

[DetroitPole]

Woah, all that aggression! Real cities have coffee shops like the above described say, oh, every other storefront. As someone pointed out in another thread, Detroit has essentially 3 real coffee shops.
Currently, Cafe 1515 is our only real coffee shop downtown.

[Capnhook]

Wait, there was a great coffee shop downtown a few years back.
Cafe DeTroit over by the puppet theater. The couple that ran it moved out of the area for work.

[n7hn]

I think its more about sarcasm .... as in "Oh, THATS all we have needed to do" type of ribbing. Cmon, really?

Good thing I didnt comment that I hoped there would be adequate parking

[DC48080]

I think its more about sarcasm .... as in "Oh, THATS all we have needed to do" type of ribbing. Cmon, really?

Good thing I didnt comment that I hoped there would be adequate parking

But you won't need parking as long as the magic Woodward choo-choo train stops right out front.

Maybe "we" can open a House of Blues or a Cheesecake Factory next door.

[lincoln8740]

But you won't need parking as long as the magic Woodward choo-choo train stops right out front.

Maybe "we" can open a House of Blues or a Cheesecake Factory next door.

HA!!!! Very nice!!

[n7hn]

see......... I am guilty of presenting only Part of the facts. shame on me

[DetroitPlanner]

Its been tried. The Starbucks in the Bhul was put out of business by the cafe in the Guardian that serves a superior cup of coffee illy.

There is also a similar place at Washington and Congress. Oh and several Tim Horton's. Come to think of it there are still Starbucks in the RenCen and the MGM. Oh and there is a coffee place in the Book Cadillac. Isn't there one in Greektown too? Hmmm... me thinks you've not been looking hard enough for your coffeeplace!