Our region's colleges put many students in debt.

[dtowncitylover]

It seems like American universities could cut out a lot of unnecessary expenses if they didn't have to be the thirteenth grade.

In Facebook speak: LIKE!

It would be great if the ACT become the American version of the French Bac or German Arbitur or British A-Levels.

We have the APs, but they are not required for university. I took AP World History and AP Comparative Politics, got worthy marks, and got ZERO credit for them.

[partyhardy]

So you can bitch about the cost of tuition, or you can weigh the costs and benefits of going into debt, take a gamble on yourself, and assume that you will be able to figure a way to pay back the debt and find a career that is rewarding [[however you define that) and maybe get your children to a place where they can not have to worry about going into such a huge amount of debt because you will be able to help them out.

Hey, and it works out the way you want it sometimes. But not always, if this economy has taught us anything, nobody is invisible from anything. Could you have made it after you got your law degree not being able to find a job for the first three years? It's happening today...kids are coming out of law school and not finding any prospects. How can they make their payments if they can't find a job?

[Johnlodge]

In Facebook speak: LIKE!

It would be great if the ACT become the American version of the French Bac or German Arbitur or British A-Levels.

We have the APs, but they are not required for university. I took AP World History and AP Comparative Politics, got worthy marks, and got ZERO credit for them.

Did you take the AP Tests for those courses? I remember taking AP Chemistry in high school, but I didn't take the AP Test, so I didn't get college credit.

[p1acebo]

Did you take the AP Tests for those courses? I remember taking AP Chemistry in high school, but I didn't take the AP Test, so I didn't get college credit.

I was in 3 AP classes in high school and you would receive credit for the AP test depending on the school. For instance, at MSU you HAVE to take a math class, even if you test out of a lower one. I was in AP calc, and even though I didn't get a 5 on the AP test, even if I did I would have to take calc 2... you are not able to get out of taking some time of math class. In this situation you would not be able to save money on a useless class regardless.

[dtowncitylover]

Did you take the AP Tests for those courses? I remember taking AP Chemistry in high school, but I didn't take the AP Test, so I didn't get college credit.

Yeah of course I took the tests...thought that that would be inferred sorry!

[darwinism]

It's all about choices. I chose to borrow near$100k to go to a top 20 law school for three years. And you know what? I graduated, got a job,lived modestly compared to most other lawyers for a few years, never missed a monthly payment, when I had extra money at the end of the month or the end of a year I'd send more in, and in less than 10 years I was out of debt.

So you can bitch about the cost of tuition, or you can weigh the costs and benefits of going into debt, take a gamble on yourself, and assume that you will be able to figure a way to pay back the debt and find a career that is rewarding [[however you define that) and maybe get your children to a place where they can not have to worry about going into such a huge amount of debt because you will be able to help them out.

I doubt very many folks would have an easy time getting a loan for such a large amount. At the rate our cost of higher education is increasing, we may well be going overseas for a college degree very soon.

[Augustiner]

Did you take the AP Tests for those courses? I remember taking AP Chemistry in high school, but I didn't take the AP Test, so I didn't get college credit.

For some reason, colleges only seem to accept IB scores as AP/college gen-ed equivalents if they were taken Higher Level. Standard Level exams, even though IMO they're harder to pass than the equivalent gen-ed classes at your average American university, aren't good for anything more than regular public high school classes. Since the IB requires you to take at least two SL exams, you can get a full IB diploma and still have to meet those two gen-ed requirements in college. It all seems kind of arbitrary to me.

[Dabirch]

Hey, and it works out the way you want it sometimes. But not always, if this economy has taught us anything, nobody is invisible from anything. Could you have made it after you got your law degree not being able to find a job for the first three years? It's happening today...kids are coming out of law school and not finding any prospects. How can they make their payments if they can't find a job?

Well, I was a bike courier, a bouncer, a bar back, did part time legal research work, and did temp discovery/document review work while waiting to land that first job. The early 1990's were not all that dissimilar to today. While not a 3 year wait, I certainly went 6 months before landing a full time associate position after graduation.

It wasn't easy. And it wasn't always fun. But it was what I wanted so I made it work.

[partyhardy]

Well, I was a bike courier, a bouncer, a bar back, did part time legal research work, and did temp discovery/document review work while waiting to land that first job. The early 1990's were not all that dissimilar to today. While not a 3 year wait, I certainly went 6 months before landing a full time associate position after graduation.

It wasn't easy. And it wasn't always fun. But it was what I wanted so I made it work.

lol, dude, yeah the 1990s were quite different than they are today. Today students are fighting with laid off automobile workers and other workers just for the "student jobs," and tuition has skyrocketed since the 90s. Hell, when I went to Wayne State in 2000, tuition was $114/credit hour, it is now $256/credit hour. That's over an increase of 100%, at a time where average income levels have gone down!

I agree that it isn't always easy, and if you work hard you can accomplish anything. But kids these days face huge challenges that haven't been seen in our history. Wayne State posted a job that required a degree that was paying $10/hour! $10/hour isn't going to pay for anything, let alone student loans. I'm just saying something has to be done to reform education quick. Tuition keeps skyrocketing, student loan debt exceeds credit card debt in the United States, and degree-required jobs are only paying small potatoes. Our economy will never recover if we don't cure the underlying problems that are ailing education, especially with so many people living under a burden of debt.

[hybridy]

They forgot about U of D Mercy

5-Year Master of Achitecture

-Tuition, Room & Board, Books/Supplies = $35k/year
-Avg Grad School Cost per Credit = $1,000

-Total Cost = $175,00+
-Avg Student Debt = $75k
-Avg Wage for Graduate Architect in Metro Detroit = $30-35k/yr

Chance anyone or any employer has heard of University of Detroit Mercy outside of Michigan?
ZERO

[RYANGUARD]

To be a State Corrections Officer all you need is 15 credits and starting pay is about $14.00 an hour.Top pay in 5 years is $24.75 an hour.For $1500.00 you can get a State job and some decent benefits.Granted there are no more defined benefit retirement plans in state jobs but you wouldn't have the sword of damocles hanging over your head making you pay for some piece of paper that will not get you a job sweeping floors.In January there are gonna be quite a few State jobs available.I am 1 of the 4755 State Employees taking advantage of the early retirement plan.When I started with the State 33 years ago all you needed was a high school diploma.Granted you won't get rich as a public servant but you could certainly do a hell of a lot worse.

[lilpup]

Gov-elect Snyder's targeting state government jobs that pay more than their private sector equivalent so that might not be a golden road anymore.

[RYANGUARD]

So far the state hasn't implimented a 2 tier pay system like some of the auto companies but it may be forthcoming.With a new contract due starting in January there may be all kinds of surprises.However,I will not have to worry about that.

[Thames]

So far the state hasn't implimented a 2 tier pay system like some of the auto companies but it may be forthcoming.With a new contract due starting in January there may be all kinds of surprises.However,I will not have to worry about that.

Surprises for you, the same old, same old, for a lot of us. Welcome to the club.

Oh wait, I forgot that you added that you wouldn't have to worry about that. Never mind, your admission to the club has been rescinded.

[darwinism]

There is no denying that the cost of college has gone out of whack across the nation, but on a more local perspective, why are there 3 institutions from our region on that list ?!?

How can Michigan and Metro Detroit turn the economic tide if the colleges and universities gouge our student population ?

This state must do something immediately, to stop this ugly trend, because it is bad enough to face the high rate of unemployment and under-employment. It is bad enough to face the high rate of exodus.

We do not need ambitious and 'entrepreneurial' young people to avoid coming to Michigan for an education. We do not need our college students to have to play 'BlackJack' with their lives, by taking out massive loans and count on their Faith that they are able to pay everything back. We do not need our new generation of Michiganders to be 'slaves' to the 'credit cancer'.

CCS, Lawrence Tech, Kettering, as well as Michigan and Michigan State, must either change on their own, or be forced to change.

[Roq]

CCS, Lawrence Tech and Kettering share the unwanted distinction of putting graduates in the most debt.

I attend LTU and I can say unequivocally, hell yes they do.

[313WX]

1KielsonDrive has it right. The sky high prices are a sympton of a bigger problem [[NO JOBS).

It's basic supply & demand. Unfotunately these are all for-profit colleges, and they can list prices for their piece of paper as high as they want because demand is high. Plus given the high unemployment rate in Detroit, employers are milking it as much as they can because of high supply. They're demanding that their employees have as much education as they want but in the same token accept sub-living wages.

So basically unless kids want to stay in poverty working at McDonalds or Walmart [[if Mcdonalds is hiring and if they'll hire someone with a college degree) for the rest of their lives they have no choice but to take in all of this debt for a piece of paper.

The system's fucked, not the education system itself [[we do need a better educated society), but the corporate system in general that's rigged in every way possbile to prevent those who have not from ever having any.

[Jimaz]

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it yet but it hasn't always been this way.

Back in the '70s student loan interest was notoriously low and those loans were relatively easy to get. The general consensus was that that was the way it should be because everyone benefits from encouraging education and educated citizens were not likely to default on those loans.

So what changed and why?

[darwinism]

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it yet but it hasn't always been this way.

Back in the '70s student loan interest was notoriously low and those loans were relatively easy to get. The general consensus was that that was the way it should be because everyone benefits from encouraging education and educated citizens were not likely to default on those loans.

So what changed and why?

Good question, Jimaz. As my late grandfather always said, whenever in doubt, follow the money trail.

So who in the end benefit from the majority of the young generation being in debt early in life, and possibly for the rest of their lives ? Who in the end benefit from the consistent influx of new folks being in perpetual credit crunch ?

Bear in mind that we are not talking about people who blew their credit line on a 3D HDTV. We are talking about the overwhelming majority of college graduates who worked hard to make good grades and looking forward to make an honest living on an honest pay over an honest day of work.

[MikeM]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/

MARTIN SMITH: Despite its dire predicament, Patten still has one very valuable asset, something called regional accreditation.

JEFFREY SILBER, Analyst, BMO Capital Markets: For the most part, a regionally accredited school is considered a higher quality school.

MARTIN SMITH: [on camera] Like the Harvards and Yales-

JEFFREY SILBER: Harvard is regionally accredited. But so is DeVry. So is University of Phoenix, same type of accreditation that the Ivy League schools have. So if you can find an underperforming traditional school with regional accreditation, that's a very valuable property.

MICHAEL CLIFFORD: We had to do appraisals on what regional accreditation is worth for Wall Street, and the independent appraisers came up with a number that a school was worth $10 million. because it costs $10 million, 10 years, and a 50/50 chance of success to obtain regional accreditation.

MARTIN SMITH: So that accreditation is a very valuable thing.

MICHAEL CLIFFORD: It is. Once you have accreditation, you qualify for the student loan program.

MARTIN SMITH: [voice-over] And that's what Clifford needs. Accreditation is the key to unlocking federal financial aid funds.


http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/fea...0911.burd.html