Demolition to Clear way for amphitheater in Hart Plaza

[56packman]

The organ is still there. It was a really unsuccessful job by Aeolian-Skinner, and not from their glory days. From day one the organ could not speak out of its bad location and openings. Several ranks were voiced as loud as they would go, and some were swapped out by the factory for ranks scaled larger and voiced even louder, just to try and get the thing heard. They tipped their hat somewhat at the organ reform movement, then a very strong effort by adding the "Garbage Scow", the portativ division with lots of North German screech and a little bit of power that wasn't lost in the chambers. The organ would be most unsuitable in Orchestra hall, and louder then hell, a piercing loud that has little intrinsic quality [[read Balls)So who knows where it will go. It is a curiosity piece from a confused period in organ building that was put into a death trap situation.

[CLAUDE G]

Lets call Farrow Demolition. Maybe there is enough scrap metal in the building they will tear down the Ford Theatre for free like they did with Tiger Stadium

[Gistok]

Thanks for the insight 56packman! Maybe they can use the Ford Auditorium organ in the new Olympia... once it's built. That way everyone will hear it!

[Bong-Man]

Tangerine Dream sounded damn good in '77.

[Bob Green]

Thanks for the organ info. If you want to hear a Skinner pipe organ from the glory days of the company [[before it became Aeolian Skinner, go to Jefferson Avenue Presbyterian Church. The fact the organ is still in Ford Aud really makes you wonder about its quality. If it was really worth something, it would not sit rotting in Ford Aud, but moved someplace else.

[kenp]

When I saw "decojim" in the Flickr website name... I knew it was the Oakland County man who builds un-f'ing-believable models of Detroit's skyline out of LEGO....

Yep thats him. Dig into his Flickr account, its filled with Lego models of Detroit buildings. Amazing how he does it.

[56packman]

Tangerine Dream sounded damn good in '77.

The issue here is natural,non-amplified music, as was the case when Ford Auditorium was the home of the DSO, it was/is an acoustical nightmare for natural music. Rock concerts aren't a problem, they just keep stacking Marshall amps until they overfill the area with sound, no problem. I always thought Ford would be a great place to just have rock concerts, but the city couldn't think that way, and now the State theater/Fillmore is taking most of that traffic.

[56packman]

Thanks for the organ info. If you want to hear a Skinner pipe organ from the glory days of the company [[before it became Aeolian Skinner, go to Jefferson Avenue Presbyterian Church. The fact the organ is still in Ford Aud really makes you wonder about its quality. If it was really worth something, it would not sit rotting in Ford Aud, but moved someplace else.

Bob, Yes, the Jefferson Ave. Pres. E.M. Skinner is my favorite church instrument in the area, my good friend Steve Warner is organist and music director there.
The instrument at Ford is going to be a problem for whoever gets it, it had to be made so unusually shrill and loud to be heard at Ford that unless it goes into a place where it is equally as buried it will be a screaming monster the best voicer could not tame. If it ended up in a place like Orchestra Hall [[a longshot in view of the orchestra's finances now) about 1/3 of the pipes would have to be replaced with ranks that are more suitable for a smaller home, ones that aren't as assertively scaled and voiced, then it is going to be a big job for a journeyman voicer to tame the remaining stops. Steve Bodman installed that organ in 1956 as the local Aeolian-Skinner rep, his stories of the difficulties encountered are the basis for a lot of my opinions/observations. One thing is for sure; it is not what you hear on that famous Mercury Living Presence LP of the DSO under Paul Paray doing the Saint Saens #3 "organ" symphony with Marcel Dupre at the console, that is pure recording engineer smoke and mirrors.

[Bob Green]

There's a big reason why the DSO stopped doing recording at Ford Aud and used places like the UA Theatre and the old Cass Tech auditorium for recording.

[stasu1213]

I had heard a couple of years ago that Chene Park was to be moved downtown. I also had heard that when the Waternark condos go up on the riverfront the resident would not have to worry about noise coming from the concerts at Chene Park for the park will no longer be at that location. I could see an Amphitheatre at that location. A park also where the parking structure is at. I also wonder about the concerts on the main stage at Hart Plaza during the festivals. Will those be eliminated. I also think that the underground at Hart Plaza should be enclosed so activities could be held all year around under there. A smaller version of Atlanta's "Underground"

[Whitehouse]

Several Fords are spinning in their graves...

I think for once I will not shed a tear about a building disappearing from the face of the earth. It really was ugly, though the art inside was great.

If an amphi theater is chosen for the new site, what choice will be made? A theater facing the river or the city? In the first case you can also stage events from the river and Windsor will enjoy some cross-border noice... With the second option Detroit is the backdrop, or at least the the first buildings in sight.

I think we should give Ford Auditorium one more year, but sincerely let it be used for some non-standard applications.

Like the Michael Bay demolition squad for Transformers IV?\

Can anyone name some examples of downtown demos that resulted in a new construction immediately? I can think of Comerica Park, although the resulting demand in parking spaces downtown resulted in more demos than wished.\

The Comerica riverfront building was scrapped because people didnt want a hi rise on the river taking up prime riverfront property and blocking the view of the river from the rest of the city.
I dont recall any issue with tearing down Ford Aud. but some may have been upset.
Why would anyone want to keep that eye soar that has no future and tie up the land its on.

So why did Ren Cen get the green light then? This is also blocking a lot of view, besides adding something to the skyline.\

http://flickriver.com/photos/decojim/2838166922/

Detroit dodged a bullet with that one. That's fucking ugly! [[Well, the lower part of it. The tower is decent.)

[Fnemecek]

There were no post-demolition plans for the Hudson's, Madison-Lenox, or Statler buildings.

That's not true. Each of those buildings required prior approval from the historic district commission before demolition could begin.

In the case of the Madison-Lenox, an expansion of the nearby Harmonie Bldg. was proposed.

In the case of the Statler Hilton, an apartment building was put forward.

I forget what they talked about for the Hudson's Building.

[Detroitnerd]

So why did Ren Cen get the green light then? This is also blocking a lot of view, besides adding something to the skyline.

That proposal was from the late 1980s, but the RenCen was conceived in the early 1970s, when reclaiming the riverfront for recreational use was a relatively new idea for Detroit, limited to Hart Plaza. The old waterfront wasn't as bright and shiny as the arcology they replaced it with, and so it was viewed as "progress."

[Gistok]

I had heard a couple of years ago that Chene Park was to be moved downtown. I also had heard that when the Waternark condos go up on the riverfront the resident would not have to worry about noise coming from the concerts at Chene Park for the park will no longer be at that location.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to have triple glazed sound proofing windows for those "proposed, but not yet built" condos?

To have to destroy the amphitheatre because something MIGHT go up nearby is an abominable waste of scarce city money... IF Watermark does get built... then the tenants will know that they can enjoy a free concert from their condo's open windows or balconies... since it won't be a surprise. Anyone who wants total peace and quiet should just avoid that particular condo project.

The River Place condos and apartments are quite close to Chene Park... and I've never heard a single complaint about any of those tenants. Besides, the amphitheatre faces the water... so I think the noise issue is really a non-issue!

[DetroitDad]

Attachment 7833

Artist's Rendering of the New Proposed Hart Plaza Amphitheater in Downtown Detroit, Michigan. The rendering was released via the Detroit News, when it was originally announced by the former city council [[I believe) last year. The 2011/2012 demolition of Ford Theater is old news, although, I am not sure too many people are taking it seriously, thus far.


Part of the goal of the new theater is to bring more visitors and residents Downtown to congregate for entertainment and cultural concerts and festivals. Another goal is to provide more grass and trees replacing cement and concrete. Take note of the small band shell and lawn in the bottom left corner of the above rendering. The new amphitheater would likely replace the Chene Park Amphitheater. My understanding is that the new theater will have a similar capacity as Chene Park's 5,000, but would also include a huge sprawling lawn, similar, but smaller than, Pine Knob. Other enhancements would also be made to other areas of the Hart Plaza, adding more green spaces [[grass and trees). The total capacity of Hart Plaza would be raised from around 40,000 to something closer to 50,000. Clarkston's Pine Knob or "DTE Energy Amphitheater" as it is now called, has a capacity just over 15,000.

Beyond this, there is a rumor going around concerning a goal for a Detroit Olympic bid mid century. This is supposedly not an active plan, but rather a back burner goal. So, in other words, venues are being moved, consolidated, and/or designed with the possibility of an Olympic bid in mind.

[littlebuddy]

They should tear it down and put up an Shedd type of aquarium on the Riverfront. The Shedd Aquarium looks out on Lake Michigan and its a great place. Detroit needs something like that downtown.

[reddog289]

My Uncle from Chicago might be sad over the fact that they wanna tear down Ford Aud. He went there when they first opened it while he was stationed at a Nike Missle site here.
I have never been in the place myself so I have no atachment to it.But as it stands it should be torn down before it really becomes an problem.

[Matt The Deuce]

I realize changes will be made, but please don't tear out the Naguchi fountain or the Naguchi pylon. He did in fact design the whole plaza, and some changes will be inevitable when you repurpose the place. I'm just hoping for a deft hand and one that understands the history of 20th century design - and the importance of preserving as much of the important stuff as possible.

As far as Ford Auditorium - I agree it looks like it has to go.

Can I get my hands on some of that white marble and blue granite they'll probably be tossing in the dumpster? Seriously, these materials should be salvaged by someone.

[davewindsor]

Can I get my hands on some of that white marble and blue granite they'll probably be tossing in the dumpster? Seriously, these materials should be salvaged by someone.

Have you ever tried salvaging old slabs of white marble? It's heavy as sin and often breaks in half or the corners break off when you try to separate it from the mortar. And the pieces you do manage to save need to cleaned from the remaining mortar stuck to it and from the stains and often repolished. There's a very good reason why they go into the dumpster.

[Gistok]

When they refaced the north and south wings of the Detroit Institute of Arts in white marble.... did the black granite that it replaced get recycled? Or was that land fill as well?

[Matt The Deuce]

davewindsor - you are correct, but I'm not thinking in terms of recovering pieces that would be usable in their original shape/form, as most would be altered/damaged to a certain extent. More like finding some decent peices in the pile of rubble for creative DIY use etc. - and yes I'm aware of the work it would entail.

[Stosh]

Attachment 7833

Artist's Rendering of the New Proposed Hart Plaza Amphitheater in Downtown Detroit, Michigan. The rendering was released via the Detroit News, when it was originally announced by the former city council [[I believe) last year. The 2011/2012 demolition of Ford Theater is old news, although, I am not sure too many people are taking it seriously, thus far.


Part of the goal of the new theater is to bring more visitors and residents Downtown to congregate for entertainment and cultural concerts and festivals. Another goal is to provide more grass and trees replacing cement and concrete. Take note of the small band shell and lawn in the bottom left corner of the above rendering. The new amphitheater would likely replace the Chene Park Amphitheater. My understanding is that the new theater will have a similar capacity as Chene Park's 5,000, but would also include a huge sprawling lawn, similar, but smaller than, Pine Knob. Other enhancements would also be made to other areas of the Hart Plaza, adding more green spaces [[grass and trees). The total capacity of Hart Plaza would be raised from around 40,000 to something closer to 50,000. Clarkston's Pine Knob or "DTE Energy Amphitheater" as it is now called, has a capacity just over 15,000.

Beyond this, there is a rumor going around concerning a goal for a Detroit Olympic bid mid century. This is supposedly not an active plan, but rather a back burner goal. So, in other words, venues are being moved, consolidated, and/or designed with the possibility of an Olympic bid in mind.

So I can imagine that the grass will look just like all the other parks in the city? Will this nice expanse of grass get cut twice a year?

An Olympic bid? Christ. Detroit is made of money, that's for sure.

[Rocko]

Rather than make small strides that respect Detroit's past and adapt it for the future to turn the city around, we continue to bank on large, pie in the sky, "this one's the big one" plans to turn our city around.....

Beyond this, there is a rumor going around concerning a goal for a Detroit Olympic bid mid century. This is supposedly not an active plan, but rather a back burner goal. So, in other words, venues are being moved, consolidated, and/or designed with the possibility of an Olympic bid in mind.

[Zacha341]

The greening, blueing and other options are great for that area, but so long as parking is such as hassle downtown many will be deterred from visiting as frequently as they would. Parking downtown is bad... especially during peak summer events.

[jerrytimes]

I love the people on here that want Detroit to become a better place, but they don't want to tear anything down. Sure you could pay millions to fix this place up, but what would the purpose be?