Demolition to Clear way for amphitheater in Hart Plaza

**French777** · November-16-10, 07:51 AM

Demolition to clear way for amphitheater in Hart Plaza

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20101116/...#ixzz15RupnVUT

**sirrealone** · November-16-10, 08:02 AM

I remember when Comerica wanted to tear it down and build their HQ there, and the absolute uproar that ensued. The 'preservationists' won, which was a great thing because otherwise, we wouldn't have gotten to see how much more dilapidated the Ford Auditorium could have gotten over the next twenty years.

**Fnemecek** · November-16-10, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by sirrealone

I remember when Comerica wanted to tear it down and build their HQ there, and the absolute uproar that ensued. The 'preservationists' won...

It wasn't the "preservationists" per se. The biggest opponents to building a skyscraper there were all of the other building owners in downtown Detroit who didn't want their view of the riverfront obscured.

**R8RBOB** · November-16-10, 09:21 AM

I'm sorta sad to hear that Ford Auditorium is at its end. Henry Ford class of 1989 had its graduation in Ford Auditorium shortly before Mayor Young stopped funding the upkeep of Ford Auditorium. Its time for process and if the auditorium has to go then so be it.

**Meddle** · November-16-10, 08:03 AM

Thread titles should at least tell people part of the story.......

Detroit —Ford Auditorium, the onetime home of the Detroit Symphony Orchestra that lately has become a symbol of downtown's struggles, could be torn down as early as May.

A vacant shell since the symphony left in 1989, the riverfront eyesore — which hosted speeches by the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and Malcolm X — would be leveled so city officials could develop Hart Plaza and build a 5,000-seat amphitheater with a lawn similar to one at Chene Park.

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"It's like this monster right in the middle of all this progress that's going on, so it definitely needs to be eliminated," said Karla Henderson, a group executive of planning for Mayor Dave Bing. "We have this one symbol that sits on the river that thousands of people see a day. [[Demolishing it) sends the sign there is a change, there's progress and hope. The mayor is clear he wants people to feel change."

Cost estimates aren't yet known, but the city plans to tap leftover federal grants for demolition. Doing so would eliminate an $80,000 annual subsidy for 24-hour security and maintenance on the building.

By the end of the month, the city plans to solicit bids for demolition and hire a contractor by January.

http://detnews.com/article/20101116/...-in-Hart-Plaza

Way to move forward Detroit!! Just tear everything down. Bulldoze it all.

**French777** · November-16-10, 08:24 AM

I think its a good idea. I mean for the "future passengers" getting off of the cruise ship at the terminal don't have a first impression of the city as an abandon 1950's auditorium..... now if they get rid of that Miller Parking Garage, we'd be in business!

**iheartthed** · November-16-10, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by French777

I think its a good idea. I mean for the "future passengers" getting off of the cruise ship at the terminal don't have a first impression of the city as an abandon 1950's auditorium..... now if they get rid of that Miller Parking Garage, we'd be in business!

I don't think most people recognize that it's abandoned... Especially visitors. I never realized it was abandoned until I started reading this forum.

I'm not too sad about seeing this one go... Especially since it kinda represents what has gone wrong with urban planning in Detroit over the past half century. And a reno like what was done for the Ren Cen probably won't ever be practical or necessary considering Detroit doesn't have a shortage of music and theater venues.

**davewindsor** · November-16-10, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I don't think most people recognize that it's abandoned... Especially visitors. I never realized it was abandoned until I started reading this forum.

Ditto.

Quite unlike the missing roof on the AAA Building that the city could buy out and demo or the ridiculous facade supported by steel girders in Grand Circus Park. Can't miss that from the Tourist Mover. Or how about a visitor wandering from Tiger stadium and seeing the unsafe and fire bombed houses in Brush Park? That offers such a better image of downtown for visitors.

**davewindsor** · November-16-10, 08:40 AM

I don't get it. The last cost estimate to demolish Ford Theatre and to replace it with a new 3,000-4,000 amphitheatre is $50m. Couldn't this money be better spent like using some to retrofit the old building and the rest to demolish the Packard? Or just spend it on improving policing in the city?

http://www.redorbit.com/news/busines...d_for_theater/

**kraig** · November-16-10, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

I don't get it. The last cost estimate to demolish Ford Theatre and to replace it with a new 3,000-4,000 amphitheatre is $50m. Couldn't this money be better spent like using some to retrofit the old building and the rest to demolish the Packard? Or just spend it on improving policing in the city?

http://www.redorbit.com/news/busines...d_for_theater/

It may depend on what the source of the funds are. More than likely, it will come from a source that wouldn't, or cant't, be used for policing the city. As far as the Packard Plant, until the issues of ownership are resolved, nothing can be done.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. It's been twenty years since the last fight, so, the viewpoints of the last argument will be viewed differently. With practically no use, and no Maryann Mahaffey to pick up the fight at the council level, this may be a done deal.

**Meddle** · November-16-10, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

I don't get it. The last cost estimate to demolish Ford Theatre and to replace it with a new 3,000-4,000 amphitheatre is $50m. Couldn't this money be better spent like using some to retrofit the old building and the rest to demolish the Packard? Or just spend it on improving policing in the city?

Aside from the demolition, the Detroit Economic Growth Corp. is soliciting bids for a development planner for Hart Plaza and Civic Center.

Need I say more?

Somebody's got somebody else's hand in their pocket.

**Gsgeorge** · November-16-10, 08:40 AM

Tear. That. Schitt. Down.

**buildingsofdetroit** · November-16-10, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Gsgeorge

Tear. That. Schitt. Down.

Tear. That. Schitt. Down. Two times. Hell, I'll push the plunger. You do have to give the city props for one thing: It's so rare that anything is demolished in this town where there is a plan in place for the site BEFORE wrecking begins.
Nice scoop by the News.

**Fnemecek** · November-16-10, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by buildingsofdetroit

Tear. That. Schitt. Down. Two times. Hell, I'll push the plunger. You do have to give the city props for one thing: It's so rare that anything is demolished in this town where there is a plan in place for the site BEFORE wrecking begins.

I presume you meant that sarcastically.

The Hudson's Building had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

The Madison-Lenox had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

The Statler Hilton had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

Notice a pattern here?

As everyone ponders their next comment, I'll just pop on over to the park that was built on the Lafayette Building site and then check on development of the Tiger Stadium site.

**iheartthed** · November-16-10, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

I presume you meant that sarcastically.

The Hudson's Building had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

The Madison-Lenox had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

The Statler Hilton had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

Notice a pattern here?

As everyone ponders their next comment, I'll just pop on over to the park that was built on the Lafayette Building site and then check on development of the Tiger Stadium site.

Well at least this time everybody might actually get what they want to replace the Ford Auditorium: nothing.

**mauser** · November-17-10, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

The Hudson's Building had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

The Madison-Lenox had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

The Statler Hilton had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

Word.

I know about 100,000 houses that need to come down immediately that deserve those Federal funds more than yet another downtown blowjob development. How about some of the emergency demolitions around town ? Packard ? Eastown ? No ?

Okay, go tear the old schitt down and build new schitt to tear down. All makes sense to me.

Let's tear down the Detroit Symphony Orchestra too, and build a new one next to them.

**erikd** · November-17-10, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

I presume you meant that sarcastically.

The Hudson's Building had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

The Madison-Lenox had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

The Statler Hilton had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

Notice a pattern here?

As everyone ponders their next comment, I'll just pop on over to the park that was built on the Lafayette Building site and then check on development of the Tiger Stadium site.

There were no post-demolition plans for the Hudson's, Madison-Lenox, or Statler buildings. The Hudson's and Statler buildings were demolished with the hope that it would be easier to attract developers to a cleared site, opposed to a vacant building. That is a vague hope or wish, not a plan. The Madison Lenox was demolished with a government "loan" to Mike Ilitch for the very purpose of turning the site into a parking lot. The government "loan" had a clause stating that IF the property was redeveloped within five years, the "loan" would be forgiven. Of course, the site was never redeveloped, and the government forgave the "loan" as a a nice handout to Mike Ilitch.

On the other hand, there have been a number of buildings demolished recently that had real plans in place prior to demolition. The three casinos, Comerica Park, Ford Field, Merchants Row and the Book Cadillac are all recent examples of situations where old buildings were demolished for a specific purpose with an actual reuse plan in place.

Demolishing the 150 Michigan building to clear land for the construction of a new parking garage as a part of rehabbing the Book Cadillac is a plan. Tearing down an old parking garage and apartment building to clear land for the new hotel and parking garage at Greektown Casino is a plan. Tearing down the Hudson's and Statler with the hope that maybe it might be easier to attract some kind of development at some point in the future is not a plan.

**Fnemecek** · November-19-10, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by erikd

There were no post-demolition plans for the Hudson's, Madison-Lenox, or Statler buildings.

That's not true. Each of those buildings required prior approval from the historic district commission before demolition could begin.

In the case of the Madison-Lenox, an expansion of the nearby Harmonie Bldg. was proposed.

In the case of the Statler Hilton, an apartment building was put forward.

I forget what they talked about for the Hudson's Building.

**miketeevee** · November-16-10, 08:59 AM

Detroit already has a waterfront amphitheatre. It's called Chene Park. Do we really need another one? Seems like a silly waste of money to me.

**esp1986** · November-16-10, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by miketeevee

Detroit already has a waterfront amphitheatre. It's called Chene Park. Do we really need another one? Seems like a silly waste of money to me.

The goal for years, since KK was in office, was to tear down the acoustical nightmare that is the Ford Auditorium and replace it with a very large ampitheatre. Following the opening of it, the city had planned to close the one at Chene Park. The goal was to have an ampitheatre downtown where they could not only attract better events, but also attract more people downtown another 10-15 nights a year to help the nightlife. I don't know for sure if this is still the plan, but I have to believe that it is.

The Ford Auditorium isn't all that significant architecturally, being built in what I like to refer to as the 'dark ages of architecture,' and the interior is nothing special. It was an acoustical nightmare and over the past 20 years since preservationists last 'saved' it, there has been absolutely no interest in the building. It is hard to believe that will ever change, especially as the building continues to age. The building is an eyesore, and aside from the Broderick Tower and David Whitney Building, is probably the blighted building most visible to visitors of the city, solely because of it's prominent location.

It is time to tear this building down and move on. We have an opportunity to put a new attraction in Hart Plaza that can attract five to ten thousand people to downtown on a number of nights throughout the summer, further helping downtown business and development. The only cost is a building that nobody wants. Well, that and a few million dollars more...

**ghettopalmetto** · November-16-10, 10:19 AM

I think demolition of the Ford Auditorium is a good idea. Restore that location to the public realm.

But an amphitheater? REALLY? After spending how much money to build the one at Chene Park? What do you do with Chene Park then? Let it rot? Build a public auditorum on the site???

I know this is WAAAAAAAY out in left field, but given the location of this space, it's proximity to the Riverwalk, and the desperate need for relief from concrete and pavement in that area, wouldn't it make more sense to turn it into a freaking riverfront park??? Must every damned thing in Detroit revolve around artificially-programmed Bread-and-Circuses festivals, in the hopes of tricking, er "luring" suburbanites downtown for a couple hours at time?

This isn't rocket science. Just make Detroit a pleasant place to live and do business. That is all.

**Mackinaw** · November-16-10, 10:29 AM

Now here is one demolition I will applaud.

I am not averse to a good, proper bandshell for Hart Plaza, as it is the premier large space downtown, but I would like to see this be part of a larger redesign of Hart. It could be like our own Battery Park or Grant Park. The city aimed high with Campus Martius, and now its our own Bryant Park. Let's learn from that.

I will insist, also, on taking this chance to turn Bates Street from Jefferson to Atwater into development parcels [[note the plural) offered to developers. Let's look to our own history and note what the area around and below Jefferson used to be-- a thriving, human-scale retail and supply district. Let's envision Bates as an enticing, walkable street that will guide people from the downtown core to the Port and waterfront parks. I know that because of all the urban renewal demolitions Detroit has had we will have to start new in terms of making a streetscape there, but let us nonetheless consider places like the South Street seaport or Quincy Market as examples of functional and attractive waterfront retail districts. Note what's good about those places and building it into the zoning for Bates Street.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-16-10, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

I will insist, also, on taking this chance to turn Bates Street from Jefferson to Atwater into development parcels [[note the plural) offered to developers. Let's look to our own history and note what the area around and below Jefferson used to be-- a thriving, human-scale retail and supply district. Let's envision Bates as an enticing, walkable street that will guide people from the downtown core to the Port and waterfront parks. I know that because of all the urban renewal demolitions Detroit has had we will have to start new in terms of making a streetscape there, but let us nonetheless consider places like the South Street seaport or Quincy Market as examples of functional and attractive waterfront retail districts. Note what's good about those places and building it into the zoning for Bates Street.

I really like this idea. I'm not sure if it even necessarily needs to be full-blown "tourist" retail [[both Quincy Market and South Street Seaport and hell, even Charleston are a bit touristy). Start out small--a place to get ice cream, a newsstand where you can buy a good book for a nice sunny day, a cafe, a coffee shop--the kinds of amenities that people of leisure seek when they're strolling about.

**DetroitPlanner** · November-16-10, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by miketeevee

Detroit already has a waterfront amphitheatre. It's called Chene Park. Do we really need another one? Seems like a silly waste of money to me.

I agree turn it into greenspace. lets face it we have enough concert venues.

**Fnemecek** · November-16-10, 09:34 AM

"It's like this monster right in the middle of all this progress that's going on, so it definitely needs to be eliminated," said Karla Henderson, a group executive of planning for Mayor Dave Bing. "We have this one symbol that sits on the river that thousands of people see a day. [[Demolishing it) sends the sign there is a change, there's progress and hope. The mayor is clear he wants people to feel change."

There's a part of me that simply wishes that city officials would come up with a different statement. They've used the exact same verbiage to rationalize every demolition since the Old City Hall came down in 1961.