why metro detroit will never achieve regional cooperation

[BrushStart]

HOLY S**T!!!!! When in the hell did that NUT CASE publish this?!!! I live in the city, am I ANTI-AMERICAN?!!!! Am I not chasing the American Dream?!!! Is the only acceptable American Dream living in Oakland County's SPRAWL? Tell that to 8 million New Yorkers and 3 million Chicagoans!!! Am I trying to "purge myself of the perceived sin of abandonment"???!!!!! WTF!!!! This guy is seriously a psychopath!

[lincoln8740]

HOLY S**T!!!!! When in the hell did that NUT CASE publish this?!!! I live in the city, am I ANTI-AMERICAN?!!!! Am I not chasing the American Dream?!!! Is the only acceptable American Dream living in Oakland County's SPRAWL? Tell that to 8 million New Yorkers and 3 million Chicagoans!!! Am I trying to "purge myself of the perceived sin of abandonment"???!!!!! WTF!!!! This guy is seriously a psychopath!

I will grant you that--especially if your version of the American Dream is to live in a two bedroom apartment and drive a small car--then yes a yard, four bedrooms and a car that can drive in snow is pretty stupid.

[BrushStart]

I will grant you that--especially if your version of the American Dream is to live in a two bedroom apartment and drive a small car--then yes a yard, four bedrooms and a car that can drive in snow is pretty stupid.

I take it that you're being sarcastic or that you volunteered your post to be fodder. I don't need a 4-bedroom house nor do I want a 4-bedroom house. I live with my girlfriend in a beautiful apartment overlooking the Detroit River. I have a full gym and swimming pool at my immediate disposal. My commute to work is 5 minutes by foot. I never sit in traffic nor do I put much gas in my Ford SUV. I have 3 pro sports teams that play in my backyard [[if you include the Lions). I walk to bars, restaurants, music venues, and the best performances in the state. Did I say I have an amazing view? And when I get tired of that, I jump in my car and drive up to my family's lakehouse as a weekend getaway to truly be in nature, not some wannabe rural location that has all of the problems of the city with none of the true benefits of the country aka suburbia. HTH.

[Hermod]

And when I get tired of that, I jump in my car and drive up to my family's lakehouse as a weekend getaway to truly be in nature, not some wannabe rural location that has all of the problems of the city with none of the true benefits of the country aka suburbia. HTH.

One of those "trust fund babies" Lincoln

[BrushStart]

One of those "trust fund babies" Lincoln

Not quite, my friend. In fact, I'm quite far from it. My dad worked hard his whole life to afford a place waaay up north and bought in before it got too expensive. The place is probably worth a lot now, but wasn't worth squat when they bought it. I work hard to pay for my place downtown. No silver spoon here, so you should watch what you say.

[R8RBOB]

L. Brooks Patterson can love sprawl all he wants and if Oakland County has the money to generate sprawl then let them. I do believe that for sprawl to be a success you need residents to move into your county and that ain't happening in Metro Detroit. Oakland County like the other counties are losing residents not gaining them. Well, let me correct myself. OC is gaining residents formerly of Detroit but not enough to return OC to the good old days. Sprawl is now just a pipe dream and Brooks just wanted something to post about.

[DetroitPole]

No matter how one feels about his message, Brooks is simply saying, "Let's keep doing what we've been doing."

Well, we've seen where that has gotten us. Michigan, including glorious Oakland County, is in the fucking toilet. Oakland County has been losing money and population as well. People are not flocking to his paradise.

So the question then remains, should we jump on with Brooks and keep doing what we've been doing and getting the same results, or focus on something like making sure we have intelligent, planned growth and vibrant major urban areas in Michigan?

His paranoia is possibly most disturbing. What is all this about anti-American Dream boogey men? Who are these fabricated enemies?? It becomes clear they are those who do not fit in his narrow view of what an American [[implicitly you are anti-American if you are against the American Dream) is and what the American Dream constitutes. His strange post-war fabrication of what EXACTLY that is [[which was denied to many, mostly based on race) flies in the face of the freedom we enjoy to pursue our happiness and "dreams" individually.

For those like Brooks and lincoln who for some reason think all city living is some kind of black ghetto or 19th century tenement slum, I invite them to look at real estate prices in New York, Chicago, London, Paris, or Washington DC. Then look at Oakland County and try not to laugh. This is a good capitalist illustration of supply and demand. Obviously tens of millions of people can do without a McMansion on a cul-de-sac. I would be interested in seeing some figures that "green grass on a safe, well maintained street, a quality neighborhood school that actually educated their children, a good job, nearby parks and recreational spaces, and a local government that actually delivers the services their taxes paid for" and urban environments are mutually exclusive.

I would also like a citation for: "Cities declined because they squandered their assets." What does that even mean?

I would like to see him make that pathetic argument to the mayor of any global alpha city. They would laugh his stupid, fat, drunk podunk ass out of the room. Only in SE Michigan does this kind of archaic bullshit still fly- but it is rapidly becoming extinct, and he's on the defensive. Keep the bottle and the car keys away from him.

[Hermod]

sprawl doesn't work...

High car dependence--I will grant you that though up till now it hasn't bothered most people.

Inadequate facilities e.g.: cultural, emergency, health, etc.--Gosh, Oakland County has numerous institutions of higher learning, Rochester and Birmingham have concert venues, there are plenty of hospitals and the average OC resident is healthier than the average Detroiter [[a lot less lead poisoning as well), and fire, EMS, and police response times are better in the sprawl than in the D.

Higher per-person infrastructure costs.--OC seems to have been able to afford these higher costs [[maybe they save some money by being more efficient and having less loss through theft and graft).

Inefficient street layouts.--The traffic there seems to keep moving.

Low diversity of housing and business types--I sure saw plenty of diversity of housing types when I lived in Rochester, though granted there are quite a few cookie cutter development in OC. Quite a diversity of business types. I even saw some supermarkets in OC. How many in the D?

Higher per-capita use of energy, land, and water--Granted, though not so out of scale with Detroit.

Perceived low aesthetic value. Only by those who don't live there.

[R8RBOB]

sprawl doesn't work...

High car dependence--I will grant you that though up till now it hasn't bothered most people.

Inadequate facilities e.g.: cultural, emergency, health, etc.--Gosh, Oakland County has numerous institutions of higher learning, Rochester and Birmingham have concert venues, there are plenty of hospitals and the average OC resident is healthier than the average Detroiter [[a lot less lead poisoning as well), and fire, EMS, and police response times are better in the sprawl than in the D.

Higher per-person infrastructure costs.--OC seems to have been able to afford these higher costs [[maybe they save some money by being more efficient and having less loss through theft and graft).

Inefficient street layouts.--The traffic there seems to keep moving.

Low diversity of housing and business types--I sure saw plenty of diversity of housing types when I lived in Rochester, though granted there are quite a few cookie cutter development in OC. Quite a diversity of business types. I even saw some supermarkets in OC. How many in the D?

Higher per-capita use of energy, land, and water--Granted, though not so out of scale with Detroit.

Perceived low aesthetic value. Only by those who don't live there.

Funny how you compare a county with many municipalities with a city that has only...one municipality. I know it's Detroit but it is an unfair advantage when you list a couple of the wealthier cities [[Rochester and Birmingham) as proof that Oakland County is a great place to live. Why not list Royal Oak Township and Wixom? Do residents of Pontiac get those benefits you posted on? It is the seat of Oakland Co. Do they get that love? One has to ask.

[mwilbert]

LBP isn't an idiot. His thinking simply reflects what worked [[or was thought to work) for his constituents in the past. I don't believe it is working so well now, and I don't believe it is going to work well going forward, but neither he nor a large number of his constituents recognize that yet, largely because to the vast bulk of them, not being in Detroit is one of the best things about wherever they are, and not being in Detroit mostly means being in suburbia, and mostly in sprawl. And of course things in most of Oakland County aren't so bad. Yet.

A key thing to understand is that the dysfunctionality of Detroit is vital the the maintenance of this narrow viewpoint. If Oakland County were outside a normal city, there would be a lot of people [[not all, probably not most, but many) who would be living in Oakland County because they couldn't afford to live in the city, and even people who liked the suburbs they would be in regular contact with people who prefer urban living. They would see the increasing number of people who prefer a more urban lifestyle, more entertainment options, less driving, less house maintenance, etc. But because the central city is Detroit, there is basically no one living in Oakland County because they can't afford to live in the city, and the specific issues involved with Detroit life allow them to dismiss anyone who actually lives in Detroit by choice as an eccentric.

Eventually population loss, the aging-out of the people who actually fled the city originally, and the bad long-term economics of Oakland County style development will cause a change in attitude, and probably more cooperation with the City of Detroit, but I doubt it will change while LBP is still around. Also, I wouldn't want to blame all uncooperativeness on LBP and Oakland County--it isn't as if Detroit and its representatives had a really positive outlook toward the suburbs either. Elected officials who were looking at something other than appealing to their constituents' prejudices would be a refreshing change.

[EastsideAl]

OK, reading that screed made me hate the old racist school-door-blocking bastard even more. What a bunch of backwards-looking BS. Suburban sprawl may have been the "American dream" of some folks in the '50s, '60s, and '70s [[although it was definitely never mine, or that of my family, and we're sure as hell every bit as American as that old doddering fool), but it is quickly becoming the American nightmare - chewing up arable land, wasting tons of resources, reinforcing income, class, and race disparities, choking off central cities, creating large populated areas that are wholly car-centric, lengthening commute times, and wasting tons of resources.

[rb336]

Perceived low aesthetic value. Only by those who don't live there.

Really? cookie cutter houses and McMansions, bland architecture all around. I grew up in the burbs. Downtowns in the older burbs, northville, birmingham have their charms, but Troy and the vast majority of Macomb and Western Oakland counties [[from bloomfield township and the farmingtons on) have nothing pleasing about them whatsoever. They are wonder bread blah. Name ONE truly interesting thing about them apart from the older churches like kirk and shrine.